NAFMA Team USA

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Yesterday (Sept 2, 2006) I took 13 members from my school (Horizon Martial Arts (http://horizonma.com)) to the NAFMA (http://nafma.org) US team trials. I'm proud to say that all 13 made the team, not only in stickfighting but in forms and sparring as well. We are looking forward to the US vs Canada meet November 18 in Toronto Canada. Hope to see some of you there!

[arnisador]

This is great news! Congratulations to all!

[Brian R. VanCise]

Congratulations everyone!

[langgaw]

Congratulations to all . Who were the 13 fighting against. were there other groups that participated or invited. Good luck at the Toronto event.

....-rd-

[Datu Tim Hartman]

They were people who qualified at nationals.

[The Game]

Congrats to the team.


So, after all the drama, who won the rematch?

[langgaw]

I am sure they all qualified for the nationals. Would it be nice to know their names so we get to know or be aware of the US representatives to Toronto and feel proud to broacast their accomplisjment too. I bet the 13 are the best you have or there is plus they all are products of Horizon/ Cebu west. more power. By the way, how many participated and what were their groups/stules? I hope there were good judges this time.

...-rd-

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I don't have the complete listing of the team members yet. As soon as I get the list, I will post it. The rules were the same as nationals with the exception of the point values of the shots - it was two to the head and one to the body. There were around 125 competitors at this event.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Horizon/ Cebu west.

The 13 members are from Horizon Martial Arts (http://horizonma.com). I'm not sure where you got Cebu West from?

[Datu Tim Hartman]

So, after all the drama, who won the rematch?
I guess I did. After all of Ric’s huffing and puffing, he didn’t show nor tried to make any arrangements for the two of us to get together. I had brought several sets of rattan with me, so we could find something to use that we could both agree on, but in the end I guess I just wasted my time.

[James Miller]

I will be posting some video clips from the trails. It is very time consuming. Here is one from the natioanals in the meantime.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7804064730344574645&hl=en

[langgaw]

I must just be guessing . I thought Horizon and CW were in one group. Must be reading too much.

Yeah , I guess you are the man. But was he not allowed to communicate in this forum? That tells us of many things....maybe he was afraid of the man, or he has no chance to communicte further, or maybe he is the respectful student of a humble guru, or maybe ric is humble enough to just shy away from levels like this or maybe he is not that interested in drama but nevertheless, you must be proud of this accomplishment and Ric by now will have exhausted his huffing and puffing. It must feel good to be the man.

[langgaw]

Mr Miller,

Thanks for the effort. Everyone knows it is time consuming and please...no hurry.

[The Boss]

But was he not allowed to communicate in this forum? .
Langgaw-

You are mistaken. Ric recieved a 1 week suspension for getting lippy with an ADMIN (me) after I posted this:

My Solution!
This forum is not about pissing matches for people who lose tournaments. It’s about sharing information and promoting Filipino martial arts in a positive manner. This thread does not accomplish that goal. If things don’t change soon, I will be forced to shut this thread down. He has been able to post for some time now. In addition Mr Hartman posted this:

Now if I offended anyone, I apologize. It’s either the cold medicine or the lack of sleep. If ANYONE feels the need to discuss the more my number is 716-675-0899.
Tim Hartman
WMAA site: www.wmarnis.com (http://www.wmarnis.com/)
Personal site: www.DatuHartman.com (http://www.datuhartman.com/)
Supply Company: www.wdsupplies.com (http://www.wdsupplies.com/)
You can see that Hartman has included his contact information in his post so they could set things up.

maybe he is the respectful student of a humble guru, I doubt that, seeing that he has waged a one man campaign on the net. He has been seen on at least 7 different forums attacking Hartman.

Like I said earlier, he has not been kicked off yet. If he follows the rules he is more than welcome to stay here, but if all he is going to do is cause trouble then he WILL be banned. This goes for all of members of FMAT.

[Brian R. VanCise]

I will be posting some video clips from the trails. It is very time consuming. Here is one from the natioanals in the meantime.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7804064730344574645&hl=en

Nice win Datu Hartman. Congratulations again to you and your team!:biggrinbo

Having said that, I must say I am not really a fan of this style of point sparring. Reminds me to much of tournament style point fighting, I guess.
Though it does teach some aspects that are good. A to B quickness and or course distancing. Still it may not be all that good of a test of fighting abilities with a stick. Just my 02. for what it is worth.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Nice win Datu Hartman. Congratulations again to you and your team!:biggrinbo

Having said that, I must say I am not really a fan of this style of point sparring. Reminds me to much of tournament style point fighting, I guess.
Though it does teach some aspects that are good. A to B quickness and or course distancing. Still it may not be all that good of a test of fighting abilities with a stick. Just my 02. for what it is worth.
I agree. When we spar in class it is continuous and both players know the score. The alternative is continuous style event. I’ve seen and hosted this type of tournament and it can become a test of ones endurance more than skill. You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Any type of tournament is just a game. It's only real, when it's real!

[arnisador]

I also agree. There's no type of competetive FMA sparring I really like. Floppy sticks drive me crazy. Rules that force me to stay at long distance keep me from fighting my game. Single-hit takes me out for a hit I might walk through, but continuous can have me taken out by someone I've just decapitated.

Sparring is important, but what I find most valuable is sparring with a like-minded colleague who views the weapon in the same way that I do. Not for sport--we both agree on when a blow was glancing and when it was stopping.

But if you do want to have tournaments, you have to make these kinds of compromises for different schools, different approaches, etc. What else can you do? Look at Karate sparring, with a single point for all hits, vs. TKD sparring. Different assumptions about the effectiveness of various techniques leads to different sparring systems.

And on the third hand...competetion can be a draw for new students.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I remember sparring with a WEKAF gold medalist one day. We began the match at the bell. My opening move was a backhand to his face cage. Probably the best shot I have ever hit someone in my career with. The sound from the impact of my stick on his helmet was like the bell at the beginning of a boxing match. That bell was his signal to begin the round and he was off to the races. This guy was a phenomenal athlete and there was no way I was going to keep up with him. At the end of the match, we shook hands and he never once acknowledged my opening move. If I have ever thrown a fatal shot at an opponent, that was it. Unfortunately due to his training, it was about hitting your opponent as many times as possible inside the alloted time without any consideration of being hit back.

[Brian R. VanCise]

I agree that most forms of sparring are just that a training exercise. They certainly are good and they certainly help you work on your attributes. In IRT we do them enough to keep that timing and distancing sharp. Personally I like sparring with rattan and fencing masks and bike gloves. with kicks, punches, grappling the works allowed. One good strike and you are in great shape. (heck you may be done sparring for the day) However, to do that more than every once in awhile is just not practical (to many injuries) and we must conform to sparring with more padding or better protective equipment regularly.

[The Game]

Having followed the drama on all the boards Mr. Argenti posted his tirade on, and those who blindly jumped to his defense without understanding all the details, I am simply amazed at the continued ignorance shown by many of these commentors.

Many comments made concerning various racial characteristics, nationalistic pride etc were made.
Mr. Argenti is a 49 year old Caucasian American, not a Filipino teenager.
He is not a seasoned competitor. This was his first competition.

Comments concerning a 9th dan vs a brown belt were made.
Normally events will put under belts and black belts in separate divisions. In this case, it seems Hartman was the only black belt to show for the senior division. So, he could have taken the default win or competed. He competed. Seems people would have made comments either way.

Comments concerning censorship, and his banning here.
As The Boss pointed out, he was suspended for, well, being a dick towards a board staff member and other members. His suspension is over. He has visited several times since then it seems.

Comments concerning the event were made.
This was a sporting event. In sporting events, protests are entered all the time. Ask the NFL, ask the Olympic Committee, ask any professional athlete. The organization heard the complain, and made a decision, same as any other sports governing body would. They could have ruled either way. Will this event reach the popularity of the "French Judges"? We may never know.

The peanut gallery has to chime in, the wisdom of the armchair QB.
Numerous nobodies pick apart the fight. Interestingly enough, the ones who do compete regularly see the fight one way, while those who don't see it another way. It's all how you look at it, and what you look for. One can see a slow old man on the retreat and a faster more aggressive opponent. Or, one can see an experienced competitor, exerting minimal energy while drawing in his overly aggressive, inexperienced opponent for a well timed strike. Depends on how you want to see it. Of course, understanding the rules the match should have been fought under might help, but why would anyone want to let reality disrupt their own narrow view of things? Rules were posted on the organizers site. If the match was fought under different rules, both parties should have been informed in advance.

Mr. Argenti has whined (yes whined) on numerous sites about this matter. In these whines, he continues to insult numerous individuals, continues to showcase his poor sportsmanship, his lack of manners, in fact his lack of education. He continues to fabricate facts to paint himself as the victim in an elaborate conspiracy, to rival the DaVinci Code, another entertaining work of fiction. I think his rant set a record on Bullshido for fastest trollshidoing of a thread. He made an open challenge, which was accepted, which he failed to appear for, instead making excuses. So, for all his complaining, for all his whining, he's nothing but air. That, shows his true character.

Seems that there are those enemies of Hartman who for whatever reason (jealousy?, envy?) will find fault with anything he does, and will do whatever it takes to paint him in a bad light, even spreading misinformation around. He is hammered over use of the Datu title, odd considering he is only using what his late instructor gave him and 5 others. If one is going to point a finger of blame, point it at Remy Presas. Why Hartman seems to be the only Datu of the 6 hammered over this title also strikes me as odd. I am unable to find where David Hoffman or Dieter Knuttel or Kelly Worden were hammered over their use of the title. Where is the attacks on Halford Jones, another non-Filipino datu? Seems that at least 2 of those gentlemen have in fact visited the PI and been welcomed as brothers, not heathens.

I think if one if going to hammer someone for something, they should get their facts straight first. Those who fail to do so, and those who have to resort to fabricating things, it speaks loudly of their own character in my opinion. One would expect better of teachers.

Enough said. All the drama, all the bluster, all the whining, and the result was as satisfying as kissing your sister.
Like, What-Ev-Er!
LOL

[The Game]

Now that thats done,

Congratulations on the success of your team. :cheers:

[Carol]

Now that thats done,

Congratulations on the success of your team. :cheers:


Amen!

:party: