Tactical Flashlights.

[arnisador]

An article (http://online.wsj.com/google_login.html?url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com% 2Farticle%2FSB115638366377544101.html%3Fmod%3Dgoog lenews_wsj) in today's edition of the Wall Street Journal ("'Tactical' Flashlights Emerge Into the Spotlight") discusses the new breed of tactical flashlights with an emphasis on the pocket-stick-sized ones. They discuss the military applications and the decision to market to civilians; in fact, it says that when th emilitary didn't but SureFire's "The Beast" (an early version), the company sold 80 of them to consumers at $2,999 (yes, that's nearly three thousand dollars) each.

Self-defense instructor James William is quoted as saying "Small flashlights are one of the single best things you can have with you" and that "The ability to control light--prevent someone from seeing you--that's a huge thing".

I bought a cheap Smith&Wesson version a few months ago. It's surprisingly bright--it's too bright to look into. I'd like the handgrip to be about a half an inch longer, but apart from that it's an interesting pocket stick.

[Carol]

The light is bright and even so you can see what you are shooting. ;) It's also VERY effective at scaring off 4-legged predators. :D

Mr. William makes a good point, but I don't totally agree with him. By shinging a light at someone you are also giving a committed attacker a point of reference as to exactly where you are. A flashlight is just a tool. Like any tool it has advantages and drawbacks.

I borrowed a Surefire Executive Defender awhile back and loved it. It's bright and tough...say the girl who breaks mag lights :blush: :D

The surface was grippy enough that I could hold it in my left (weaker) hand and actually be able to do maneuvers with it without fumbling it...which frees up my right (stronger) hand to punch and block. That also gave me a bit of confidence that I could hold on to it during rough conditions...such as with my bare hands in the middle of a New England winter. Plus it has all these nasty surfaces that can be used to make impact from a variety of hand positions/angles.

Not sure how happy Law Enforcement would be to see one used in a fight, however.

[arnisador]

Mr. William makes a good point, but I don't totally agree with him.

Yes, I included that quote in part because I was somewhat skeptical of what he said and was curious what others would think. Clearly it's useful...but preventing someone from seeing you seems overblown, almost comic book-ish, and as to one of the single best things you could have, I can think of weapons I might list higher up. Still, for something not exclusively a weapon, it seems like a nice choice--with blinding and striking/controlling options.


Not sure how happy Law Enforcement would be to see one used in a fight, however.

I have long wondered this, especially with the club-like maglights. Will the courts really accept that it was "just" a flashlight that happened to be used as a weapon, when they're marketed as they are? Or will it be treated as though the person with the flashlight was carrying a weapon around?

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Yes, i love "tactical" flashlights (shoot, everything seems to be "tactical" huh?)

i train with the Surefire Executive Defender:

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/1132/sesent/00

i personally love the strike bevels... and the light, damn i still see spots!...

also, i carry my flashlight instead of any of my folders as my everyday carry... less legal ramifcations i guess...

Captain

[arnisador]

Mine doesn't have the beveling...I kind of expected to see it, frankly!

[arnisador]

On the third episode (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?p=7094#post7094) of Personal Defense TV (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=1023) they focus on lights--handheld, integral to a pistol, glow-in-the-dark gun sights, lasers, etc. One thing they showed as ways to use the small tactical flashlights with a pistol, using both hands to grip both together. The importance of the "momentary switch" on the butt end was emphaszied--you can turn off the light quickly so that you can't be seen by your opponent!

[Carol]

The girl who breaks MagLites is now the girl who breaks Surefires.

Either I'm a total klutz or my 4 year spent earning a B.Mus gave me REALLY strong fingers.

My (own) Executive Defender lasted about a day. I broke the switch. Although in fairness I've heard a couple of E2Ds have had switch problems...which kind of makes sense given that it's the only moving part in the unit.

I'm not sure if I will get another E2D. The damn thing is almost painful to grab it's got so many sharp surfaces. On the other hand....I'm sure it would hurt like hell if I actually had to hit someone with it.

I do love that blinding light though...anything that creates difference between me and a bad guy is a good thing.

[DAMAG-INC]

I own one of these Surefire flashlights and I have to say, they are awesome to have! Those bulbs are so damn bright that it really does a great job in temporarily blinding a perpetrator/aggresor prior to closing in on them and finishing them off. They also work great as a "pak-sak"(palm-stick) type of device for fist-fighting. These are an ideal tool to add to the arsenal for security personnel, military, bodyguard or law enforcement.

Daniel Arola

[arnisador]

These are an ideal tool to add to the arsenal

I never really thought I'd want one and only got one recently after reading an article on them in a New Mexico newspaper. But I have quickly come to be a believer. The main thing to realize is that they are much brighter than one would expect. That combined with the dulo-dulo aspect makes them a handire tool tahn might be expected.

[arnisador]

The girl who breaks MagLites is now the girl who breaks Surefires.

With a grip like that, who needs martial arts training? :D

Do you have a link to a picture of this multi-edged model? It sounds reminescent of an octagonal nunchaku?

[Carol]

It's not octagonal, just mean. It was designed to simulate a tactile effect of dragging a broken bottle across the skin. The edges aren't knife-sharp...but...they hurt even with light contact.

It's a mean little device...


http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sf_e2d.jpg

[arnisador]

A "defender" flashlight...looks cool!

[Carol]

It is cool. :)

A couple of drawbacks...I'm not sure how the "Executive Defender" name parlays with law enforcement. Although...I've seen a few LEOs that are familiar with the unit and with Surefire lights so hopefully if the worst happens I get an understanding police officer. Worst case, I can make a case that I am an executive and I needed to defend myself. :D :D

The other drawback is, the bright light means heavy battery drain. I'm not sure the availability of these batteries outside of stores that sell Surefires. I may be able to find them in a place that sells camera batteries. For now, I keep an extra pair in my car.

So far I haven't used it to defend myself, but it has been extremely helpful at coaxing a wild racoon away from my car, and helping a colleague with a dead battery.

[arnisador]

Heh, it sounds like if you only drained a battery you'd be doing better than what happened to your last few flashlights!

I like the look of yours better than mine, and I do like mine! Does the pocket clip interfere with your grip?

[Carol]

I had to pull my light out and find out. :D

I largely don't find the pocket clip to be interfering. Its curved in a way that meshes with my hand well. About the only position that I found to be unpleasant was if the clip dug in to the web of skin between my thumb and forefinger. If it did, it was easy enough to circle the light around so the clip was out of the way.

The nubby surface of the light is so easy to hold, it's hard for anything to interfere with the grip...including bad weather. :)

[Brian R. VanCise]

Tactical flashlights are essential for serious personal protection whether on the street or in your house they are very effective as impact tools as well as momentarily being able to blind your assailant. I have this version :
http://www.pentagonlight.com/app/get_file.cfm?id=574
PentagonLight x2xenon (military specifications)
This is an awesome light and a great small
defensive tool.

[arnisador]

The nubby surface of the light is so easy to hold, it's hard for anything to interfere with the grip...including bad weather.

I like yours better than mine. I have flashlight envy!

[Carol]

I like yours better than mine. I have flashlight envy!

Ah, I understand. That can happen. ;)

But...migod...

The Surefire 10X Dominator.

Its...big.

It has a tactical light (tight and focused) and a searchlight (broad and sweeping). The tactical light is as bright as mine. The searchlight is...ummm...8x brighter. 500 lumens.


http://www.knivesandtools.com/productimages/surefire/large/10x911.jpg



http://imagescommerce.bcentral.com/merchantfiles/5126552/10X_bckgrnd.jpg


How bright is 500 lumens? Imagine a power failure places you in pitch darknesss, and you turn on a flashlight in your room...and the flashlight is as bright as a small table lamp. That's...pretty darn bright.

And as a beam...found this photo on the net of a workshed that has been lit up using the searchlight.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/980375/DSCN3848.JPG



If you REALLY want light...I suppose that's the piece.

It weighs 20 oz/567 g.

Wisely, Surefire made this with a rechargeable battery pack, although given that they used a NiCd instead of NiMH, I think they skimped on the battery...especially considering the hefty price of the unit.

$450 with charger, $399 without.

[arnisador]

It amazes me how expensive some of these are! FOr me, that price isn't justifiable.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Arnisador, they are marketing to police, fire and other tactical agencies. That is why they are sooooo bloody expensive. (the govt. will pay that price)

[Carol]

Yep, our tax dollars are part of the reason that support the high price. At the same time...they are built to be tough enough for the LEOs, fire fighters, and other First Responders that depend on a bright light to save someone's life and protect public safety.

But there is also a market for collectors and flashlight geeks. There is something empowering to controling a light source. I surfed over to another forum once and saw a thread that was entitled something like "What's the best light to buy if you want just want one good light?"

The response was...there's no such thing as buying just one. :D :D

Some of the anecdotes were pretty funny, as a few of the posters started talking about what got them in to flashlight collecting. One fellow was a pilot. "Originally I just needed a light to use in the cockpit..." ;)

Although...if this light was used to strike someone...at 20 ounces, that would certainly get my attention. But sheesh....that becomes a pretty darn expensive baton. :eek:

[nash]

Yep, our tax dollars are part of the reason that support the high price. At the same time...they are built to be tough enough for the LEOs, fire fighters, and other First Responders that depend on a bright light to save someone's life and protect public safety.

If you think what you pay is expensive, you should see what the government agencies pay. My unit bought quite a few surefires to attach to our weapons, small pocket-sized ones. I saw them in the store for $60, when the unit ordered them they were over $100!!!! A forty dollar increase for the guys that defend our country.

[Carol]

If you think what you pay is expensive, you should see what the government agencies pay. My unit bought quite a few surefires to attach to our weapons, small pocket-sized ones. I saw them in the store for $60, when the unit ordered them they were over $100!!!! A forty dollar increase for the guys that defend our country.

That's stunning, and sad. I've seen the weapon lights you are talking about Nash. The taxpayer is footing the bill, which is bad enough...but...to nearly double the price for the hard-working folks that need it most, that's just wrong in so many ways.

Salute to you for keeping us safe! :) Thank you so much for your service.

[arnisador]

Are they made to even harsher military specs, though? For the sand etc.?

[nash]

Actually, they are pretty much the same as the ones you can buy in the store. The only thing different is the mount that attaces to the weapon. The mount is equipped with a special trigger that activates the light without having to take your trigger finger away from the trigger well.

[littlebadboy]

how about an attachment for tactical batons like these?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/littlebadboy/For%20Sale/batonlight.jpg

www.littlebadboy.net (http://www.littlebadboy.net) for more information.

[arnisador]

I kind of like that idea, actually!

[arnisador]

Cops give LED flashlights a try (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/2007-04-09-flashlight-usat_N.htm?csp=34)


A race is on to reinvent the police flashlight to take advantage of new technologies, and the results could change what's tucked in belts worn by cops across the country. It's pitting two flashlight makers in Southern California against a third, Mag Instrument, which has long dominated the market with its iconic Maglite.

The Los Angeles Police Department, often a testing ground for new law-enforcement products, just began distributing to its officers new flashlights made by Torrance, Calif.-based Pelican Products. The flashlight, called the Pelican 7060 LED, is the product of two years of research for a flashlight that's brighter than the metal ones often carried by cops and too small to double as a billy club.

"This may be the prototype flashlight for police departments around the United States," LAPD Chief William Bratton told a news conference.

The flashlight's big difference is its light source. The 7060, which retails for $200, relies on LED technology, which uses semiconductors to generate light. LED lights use less power, are virtually unbreakable and last longer than standard bulbs found in most flashlights.
There were additional graphics in the print edition.

[young blade]

I heard one of the reasons that they plan to issue those flashlights is to prevent police brutality. They said it's way lighter than what they have today..so they can't use it as an impact weapon to their supects...like what the news camera caught that have placed the reputation of the LAPD in jeopardy before (I can't remember what year that incident happened)

[Will]

I used this Stryker LX6AK2 when I worked as a bouncer in the nightclubs. It's very bright, rugged and inexpensive (about $25). Here's a pic and a link for more info. http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=TOLX6AK2

http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/products/TOLX6AK2.jpg

[arnisador]

I heard one of the reasons that they plan to issue those flashlights is to prevent police brutality. They said it's way lighter than what they have today..so they can't use it as an impact weapon to their supects...

The USA Today story talked about that--keeping it from being used as a club. I have mixed feelings about someone taking a potential weapon away from LEOs!

[arnisador]

I used this Stryker LX6AK2 when I worked as a bouncer in the nightclubs. It's very bright, rugged and inexpensive (about $25).

That's cheap! I like cheap. How did it hold up?

[Will]

Very well! It’s made of aircraft aluminum so it can take a good beating. I recommended it to all on the crew.

[Silence_sucks]

That defender model looks like it would make for one hell of a gunting!

[arnisador]

Yes, that's a great choice for a dulo-dulo!

[arnisador]

Solar Flashlight Lets Africa's Sun Deliver the Luxury of Light to the Poorest Villages (http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F30B1EFD35550C738EDDAC0894DF404482)



''I find it hard sometimes to explain the scope of the problems in these camps with no light,'' Mr. Bent said. ''If you're an environmentalist you think about it in terms of discarded batteries and coal and wood burning and kerosene smoke; if you're a feminist you think of it in terms of security for women and preventing sexual abuse and violence; if you're an educator you think about it in terms of helping children and adults study at night.''

[arnisador]

Cobra Stunlight (http://www.cobrastunlight.com/)

Combines a red laser and a pepper spray in a high-intensity flashlight. Looks neat!

"Defends Against Numerous Attackers"

Well...

[silat1]

I carry a surefire model 2e defender which has a raised lens cap on both ends.. I use it for my patrol work and it is in my hand when I am on approach to a car which is pulled over or when I am interviewing some one at night..

Before I got the surefire, I carried the stream light twin action which is about 6-7 inches long and has a white light as well as a LED setting.. It was about the size in diameter of a kubotan, but it was good for take downs and pain compliance execution when I was working private security.

The olisi palad (palm stick) training comes in good for use with the tactical flashlights and with the right amount of pressure, it can work wonders as to making a suspect compliant to your commands without having to resort to OC spray or the expandable baton..

Bill
Defensive Tactics

[arnisador]

The olisi palad (palm stick) training comes in good for use with the tactical flashlights and with the right amount of pressure, it can work wonders as to making a suspect compliant to your commands without having to resort to OC spray or the expandable baton..

This is something I admire about Bram Frank's Gunting knife--it can be used for pain compliance like a palm stick with the blade coming out as a last resort.