angles of attack

[fernast]

Hello everyone,
One question concerning angles of attacks:
- Some schools use the minimalist cinco teros (5 strikes)
- others use more angles mainly using slash and trust
- others mix angles (as trajectory) and type of attacks thus have duplicated angles, for exemple a #1 slash and another angle similar to the #1 but abanico or trust. they tend to have more types of strike (slash, witik, abanico, redondo, straight trust, circular trust....)
This lead to set of 25 angles of attack for instance.
- some school will also have different or similar angles / strikes but using a reverse grip (baston held with ice pick) or a bayonet grip or a two hands grip...

In what category your school falls?
What use are you making of angles of attacks?
For instance, do you use defense against a #1 slash and similar or totaly different defenses against a same trajectory angle but with an abanico or a trust?
Do you practise using different grips thus having slight differences on your angles of attacks

I like to get some food for thought on this topics.
Thanks to those who will take the time
Regards
Fernast

[kabaroan]

Grand Master Ramiro Estalilla has simplified his art, Estalilla Kabaroan using 8 angles of attack (rather than five): Verti(cal) Right, Over Right, Hor(izontal) Right, Under Right and Radical Right; repeating the direction on the Left side. Each angle has its defensive block. GM Estalilla represents this in the octogon, seen in his logo.

In Kabaroan, there are six strikes: slash, chop, thrust, slam, butt and gore; each strike can be applied to the eight lines of attack and the three target areas (head, torso, legs), some more successfully than others depending on the attack. "Attack the angle."

GM Estalilla and Sigung Bansuelo teach that the one needs to defend the angles rather than know counters/blocks for each type of strike. For defense, there is TIRADIN (force on force, rythmic) and TODASAN (merging, off-beat and deadly) two sides of the same coin, each with its own purpose and application.

There are a few images that I took of GM Estalilla and Sigung Ed Bansuelo demonstrating the octogon and the angles of attack and defense here:
http://www.estalillakabaroan.com/id5.html

When we train, we practice transitioning from secillia to bambolia and back to sencillia; left hand to right hand, etc. (Sencillia=single stick, single hand; Bambolia is a two hand single stick method (typically used at close range)).

Hope this sort of answers your question. :)

[langgaw]

Mr Fernast,
Have you heard of the Bantayan group? This group practices angles attack that looks at the oponent as a sphere/ball. During the execution aof any strike, the handlers body conforms to the oponents position and strikes at an angle (using the angles you mentioned) in the assumed position. this angle now no longer qualify as one of the angles mentioned so makes me wonder if angles of attack really have a specific number of basic attacks (of course for training purposes) or inits advanced state, infinite. Just sharing..........
Langaw

[Old Salt]

Sir,

Because I am new to the art my knowledge is limited, but angles or sphereical are primary dependent on how we are taught to receive the visual of the opponent. For me it is difficult to say what will happen because in situation the unconsciess brain takes over. I think that the flow of the art is in all aspects of the art (offense, Defense, Counters).
Just my opinion and would like to here more. Those of use that with some physical issues need to understand how to move better.

[Roger Agbulos]

Sir,

Because I am new to the art my knowledge is limited, but angles or sphereical are primary dependent on how we are taught to receive the visual of the opponent. For me it is difficult to say what will happen because in situation the unconsciess brain takes over. I think that the flow of the art is in all aspects of the art (offense, Defense, Counters).
Just my opinion and would like to here more. Those of use that with some physical issues need to understand how to move better.

I'm not really much of a "poster" but Old Salt's opinion just hits it on the nail. If your training methodology is sound, that flow will be your shield & weapon in the fight.

The angles of attack pretty much get more complicated especially when open-minded practioners blend different combative systems to broaden their FMA horizon. As in the case of LAMECO ESKRIMA - with several major & minor systems, PG Edgar Sulite came out with his own numbering system used as the standard in the LAMECO curriculum.

When confused, remember the adage "simplicity is the key". This should be your guiding principle. Look at the angles of attack as merely strikes from three basic positions: 1. abierta, 2. centro, & 3. serrada . From each positions come the three levels: 1. high (eye/temple), 2. middle (elbow) & 3. low (knees). There is the thrusts of course, let us not neglect.

You might want to check out this footage of a light sparring drill we did just last Monday. Let me know what you guys think.

Salamat.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7478401108309964557 (http://javascript<b></b>:ol('http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7478401108309964557');)

[arnisador]

The link is choking for me... :(

[Roger Agbulos]

Sorry, best to do cut & paste... how are you Sir Jeff!

[arnisador]

This should work:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7478401108309964557

Looks like fun!

[Carol]

Cinco teros here, and learning more as I go along. :)

[Douglas]

Derobio has 12 strikes (doce teros), three of which are actually thrusts. Of the remaining strikes, the basically cover all the angles including two high horizontals and two low horizontals.

[wes tasker]

Pekiti Tirsia (as taught by Tuhon Bill McGrath) has several different sets of attacks. At first one practices the "Sabay Sabay nga Sugod" which are six different strikes (jab, slash, uppercut, takedown, overhead, close-spacing) done from both open (abierta) and closed (serrada) position. These strikes teach body mechanics on both the horizontal and the vertical as well as hand and leg movement - and of course the coordination of each.

Then one progresses to the "Abcedario" which are 12 sets of 12 stick strikes. The angles do not change as much as the "method of delivery" does. There is a forward and reverse set for 6 different ways of delivery - standard, double force, punyo, hooking, reverse grip, and bayonet (hands at each end of the stick).

Then on progresses to the "Limang Sugod" or Five Attacks. These are diagonals that are pretty much the same as what people call the "Cinco Teros". If you add in Contradas principles (the second set of advanced single stick material) there are 6 ways of doing each of the diagonals (with #5 being a thrust). They are - forward broken, forward fluid, forward circular, reverse broken, reverse fluid, and reverse circular.

Lastly one progresses on to the first set of Seguidas which are 12 techniques that rely on a mechanic that enables one to generate power in a very narrow space.

There is a logical progression in these sets where ones mechanics become increasingly more subtle and more powerful. Tuhon Bill once said that "an experienced Pekiti Tirsia practitioner should eventually be able to generate three times the force in a third of the space from when they first started".

So within these striking sets angles of attack are taken care of along with the concomitant footwork variables, blade applications, mechanics, combinations, and counter-offense.

-wes tasker