New to Modern Arnis, just a few Questions please!

[mindmaster]

I'm really impressed by the comprehensiveness of this style, and was just curious about the differences between the various organizations especially in their teachings. I have a local IMAF, Inc. school which I plan to visit. I just want to know some the impressions of the members here as to their particular schools. I really am looking for a suitable martial art that contains weapons, empty hand, grappling, throwing, nerve strikes/joint destruction, moderate sparring. I come from a homeschool wrestling/muay thai background. About the only thing that is turning me off on IMAF is the silly requirements for ranks and I really would like clarification on that. (I mean, if I know the crap why would I have to wait x months and years?.. I know this is to avoid being a McDojo, but... skills are skills)

Can Arnis do this, or am I maybe looking for something else?


- Mind

[monkey]

Hi;
Let me say it as Proffessor Remy stated to me once!
It is very beautifull-fast-fun-effective-builds stamina-
the useage of both hands & eyes drill for offence & DEFENCE--
& IT WILL KEEP YOU HAPPY AS THERE ARE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WRLD WHO DO PARTICIPATE IN THIS GREAT ART!
i hope that helps with some point of veiw & I am sure others wii add to it!

[arnisador]

There are two IMAF orgs. in existence...one headed by a Dr. Schea, another by a Mr. Delaney. Based on your location, I think you mean the former. I think you'll find what you're looking for. I practice this art (through a different org.) and it includes everything you're looking for save possibly nerve strikes (depending on how you mean that). Certainly, there are weapons (usually stick/sword/knife at least), throwing and locking, empty-hand striking, destructions, and usually some form of stick-sparring (though this varies).


Check it out!

[Tarot]

You'll find that no matter where you go there will be guidelines to follow in regards to the belt system. Just because you know the crap doesn't mean you have the technique down. ;)

Personally I love this art and after my first class I knew this was the one for me. The movements are fluid and flowy, and one does not need a lot of strength to do them. I find weapons training practical and useful. It also gives you the chance to think a little differently about moves and how your body works.

Which IMAF school are you looking at?

[mindmaster]

That's sounds pretty good especially the part about the strength. You only get weaker physically as you get older and techniques dependent on brute strength would lose effectiveness over time imho. In a non-strength based system you would get better with age and time since you would have improved technique.

The closest school to me is http://www.islanderskarate.com, which is actually where Ken Smith teaches, who trained with GM Remy AFAIK. It's really hard to find Arnis/Escrima/Kali not blended with JKD somewhere near Chicago. I have nothing against JKD but I rather learn one complete system than learn the semi-important bits of many. It seems way too confusing considering that kicking and punching effectively in certain ways requires certain footwork that may or may not be a part of a certain instructors JKD. I also feel in such systems it is far too difficult to master techniques because there are so many to use, but so few are practiced. It also tends to slow down your combat reflexes as you have to think about what you are going to pick out of the big book before you use it. Mastery should be reflexive and I don't see how you could be reflexive in JKD. Arnis is very obviously reflexive, and that is a lot of the draw for me. But, enough JKD this is the "Modern Arnis" forum. :)

My concern about the ranking time is that I usually practice more then others (daily, if possible) and I generally race ahead. Many people that do MA just do it in the class and go home, but I've never done it that way. I'm not saying I'm smarter or better, but I feel there is no replacement for putting the time in. I believe there is no point to "start" if you will not do what it takes to "finish" in good form. I don't want to waste my, or the instructors time in any case. If the ranking is based more on what it takes for someone who practices hard I'm completely cool with the numbers. I really don't care if it takes 2-3 years to rank up as long as I am not bored. :)


Thanks for the feedback, hopefully I will get out in the next few days to view a class or two.

- Mind

[Tarot]

I think that you will enjoy the school and please let us know how it goes once you visit! :) I have met with and attended a camp where Master Smith taught. He's an excellent instructor and knows how to have a good time in class while still being very serious about training.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to practice. I'm quite lucky because my husband also takes MA classes with me. We train three days a week in class plus everyday outside of class. I have my own built in training partner! :p But the ranking system is put in place for a reason. I'm not certain of the full ins and outs of the reasonings but I do know that there is a philosophy behind it. It could be one of the questions you ask Master Smith when you visit his school. :)

[DavePaj]

Just a few comments about rank in general, from my limited experience.

In many cases and organizations, rank does not necessarily parallel technical ability ... in order to maintain healthy governing organizations, it often comes along with other things such as dedication to the organization and the context and understanding that comes with time spent studying the art in a particular style and organization.

It sounds like you are into martial arts because you enjoy the experience of training and learning the arts. if you have really found a home in your new dojo, you'll attain whatever rank it is that you aim for.

to digress a little, Modern Arnis should have all the things you are looking for. You may not see it all in 6 months or a year ... there is too much breadth and depth, but its a great approach to martial arts.

[arnisador]

Rank rules used to be extremely lax in the art...I think we may be seeing a bit of swing to the other side in most of the Modern Arnis orgs. The WMAA (http://www.wmarnis.com), of which I am a member, also has some fairly specific rules. However, usually you're not limited to working only on techniques from that rank. You'll work on techniques from a variety of ranks in a given class. For us, the rank structure is important because it insures that nothing is missed in your training.

[Boar Man]

Mindmaster

Came across this thread late and wondered if you ever checked out ken Smith's school. Ken is an excellent instructor in MA as well as I think more tradtional form of karate (Ishinryu?) At one of the camps he did teach on pressure points when showing a empty hand response or defense to ab attack.

Oh well got to go

[arnisador]

How is your training going, mindmaster?

[kruzada]

About the only thing that is turning me off on IMAF is the silly requirements for ranks and I really would like clarification on that. (I mean, if I know the crap why would I have to wait x months and years?.. I know this is to avoid being a McDojo, but... skills are skills)
- Mind

I usually follow a strict requirement (training time) for rank advancement, but there are some exceptions.

IMO if someone seems very dedicated and has trained with me for at least one year, I would promote them according to their skill level but usually no higher than purple belt (if they are exceptional) for someone just starting in the system. Rank is not only an indication of skill but also the amount of trust that an instructor has in his/her student.

Just FYI, to date I have only promoted one person to Purple Belt, within one year, but this person has a 1st degree Black Belt in another Arnis system.

-Rich Acosta

[arnisador]

It's always a hard call when they have studied another, similar FMA system. The movements can be so similar, but they don't know the specific drills and such...so they move like an expert, but lack specific knowledge! It's tough to know how to properly rank such a person.

[animal_stylez]

That's sounds pretty good especially the part about the strength. You only get weaker physically as you get older and techniques dependent on brute strength would lose effectiveness over time imho. In a non-strength based system you would get better with age and time since you would have improved technique.

The closest school to me is http://www.islanderskarate.com, which is actually where Ken Smith teaches, who trained with GM Remy AFAIK. It's really hard to find Arnis/Escrima/Kali not blended with JKD somewhere near Chicago. I have nothing against JKD but I rather learn one complete system than learn the semi-important bits of many. It seems way too confusing considering that kicking and punching effectively in certain ways requires certain footwork that may or may not be a part of a certain instructors JKD. I also feel in such systems it is far too difficult to master techniques because there are so many to use, but so few are practiced. It also tends to slow down your combat reflexes as you have to think about what you are going to pick out of the big book before you use it. Mastery should be reflexive and I don't see how you could be reflexive in JKD. Arnis is very obviously reflexive, and that is a lot of the draw for me. But, enough JKD this is the "Modern Arnis" forum. :)

My concern about the ranking time is that I usually practice more then others (daily, if possible) and I generally race ahead. Many people that do MA just do it in the class and go home, but I've never done it that way. I'm not saying I'm smarter or better, but I feel there is no replacement for putting the time in. I believe there is no point to "start" if you will not do what it takes to "finish" in good form. I don't want to waste my, or the instructors time in any case. If the ranking is based more on what it takes for someone who practices hard I'm completely cool with the numbers. I really don't care if it takes 2-3 years to rank up as long as I am not bored. :)


Thanks for the feedback, hopefully I will get out in the next few days to view a class or two.

- Mind


If I may throw my two cents in here...I'm sure every instructor would love to have all his/her students to be as hard working as you are. Unfortunately there aren't as many students that train as hard as you do, you are probably a minority in your school (just assuming). But as you said, many go to class and go home and do not practice. This can be for various reasons but they probably enjoy and value their time in class as well, and that's why they keep coming back to class. Most schools survive because of these types of students. These types of students also allow you to have a school to come to and train as well.

I train more than most, I wish I could do it every day, but I have such a busy life that I just can't, but I squeeze in as much as I can. So I'm sure the ranking has to be tailored a bit to fit more of those who do not practice as much, but not so easy as to they just show up and they can get one in a year. If my instructor ranks me at whatever rank, it's because he thinks I deserve it, not me. If I was to ever think that I deserved a rank, I would never leave white (beginner) belt!! lol...there's just so much to learn and perfect!! :)

*stepping down from soap box now* :D