Comment and Feedback on New Layout?

[arnisador]

Bob Hubbard changed the site over to the newest version of the forum software this past weekend. We know that a few things are broken, like the go to first unread post button, and he is also working on changing the background color from white. Please give us any feedback on problems, desiderata, etc.! We appreciate your input on the site.

-Arnisador
-FMAT Admin

[Brian R. VanCise]

So far so good on my end based on just the issue of change. Anytime change happens it can be a little shocking.
I will definitely be happy with the color change from white. :)

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Sorry, I am not a fan of the new look :(

I know all forums update their "Skins" regularly and people hate change though.

My font has gone a lot smaller when reading the threads and when writing in posts. I do not see the reason for a "Tag Cloud" and "Blogs". My main gripe is that the focus is taken away from the conversations and more "Social Networky". The "New Posts" worked better at the top of the screen as it was possible to scroll down and have a browse. Now everything feels so condensed - and small!

Anyway, like I say I know you're trying to give the place a "Lick of fresh paint" and hope you take the feedback as it is intended.

Simon.

[arnisador]

The feedback is greatly appreciated! The underlying forum software has gone through a major update (3.x to 4.0) and that will provide fixes to old bugs (and of course the introduction of some new ones) and greater security, especially where forum spam is concerned. (That's a constant battle for us behind-the-scenes.) The blog feature is supposed to be cool but some of the social networking and other features could be disabled. It's important that the site remain welcoming and convenient for both current and potential members, so I hope we get more comments.

-Arnisador
-FMAT Admin

[Bob Hubbard]

Tag cloud is supposed to be a quick way to search for related topics, plus helps with search engines connecting to us.
The entire side bar though can be hidden if you click on the >> icon along the side.

I think font size is member controlable. I'll check into that.

Blogs are an added feature, which is optional. The trend nowadays is more social network features, which are added to compete against sites like Facebook.

All feedback's welcome. I had one person contact me on Kenpotalk (now running same software but a different 'skin', who said "It sucks". Hey, I need to know this stuff. :)

Some of the bugs are supposed to be solved in the next patch which just came out. I might be installing that over the weekend, once I read up on feedback on it.

Please, keep the good and not so good comments coming. :)

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Thanks guys for the response.

I think we have a great community here with an admin / management team that cares about it. I know a lot of "Behind the scenes" work goes into a busy forum such as this and people only get to see the "front end".

Just saying "It Sucks!" is not really helpful for you guys.

That's great news about the sidebar and wondered if there was some tweaking I could do to get rid of it. Once thats gone and the fonts made bigger everything is fine with me!

Thanks again,

Simon.

[qwertz]

Tag cloud is supposed to be a quick way to search for related topics, plus helps with search engines connecting to us.
The entire side bar though can be hidden if you click on the >> icon along the side.


I find the entire side bar annoying and I do not think a considerable amount of people is using a tag cloud for searching the topics. I guess in the end it's more about looking cool and doing what is often done in blogging systems. And -- btw -- I cant hide the entire side bar, because that only work with enabled javascript. so for me, the new design it more of a disturbance, than an improvement.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Yeah, after I posted I looked at the "Cloud" and the terms were extremely generic and more for SEO than members. IMO if anybody is going to search for something they should be using the "Search" function..

I hid the sidebar but it get's rid of the "New Posts" function which is a pain. I look into the forum a few times a day and the "New Posts" / latest activity is what I head for straight away.To me it just works better at the top or bottom rather than the side.

Maybe there's a few people who like the sidebar so it will balance out :lookaroun

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

I've found something odd too...

If you go to a member's profile and click "Find all posts" it's no bringing any up or in the case of one member just one!

Please let me know if you want to know the members I checked and I will PM them to you.

Simon.

[Bob Hubbard]

.
I find the entire side bar annoying and I do not think a considerable amount of people is using a tag cloud for searching the topics. I guess in the end it's more about looking cool and doing what is often done in blogging systems. And -- btw -- I cant hide the entire side bar, because that only work with enabled javascript. so for me, the new design it more of a disturbance, than an improvement.

Theoretically, you can enable javascript, hide the side bar, then disable it again and it should stay hidden. I haven't tested that though. Unfortunately, many of the functions on the site require javascript to work. If you're running Firefox, you can install NoScript and have an option to allow/disallow scripts by site of origin. Other browsers may/may not have similar capability.


Yeah, after I posted I looked at the "Cloud" and the terms were extremely generic and more for SEO than members. IMO if anybody is going to search for something they should be using the "Search" function..

I hid the sidebar but it get's rid of the "New Posts" function which is a pain. I look into the forum a few times a day and the "New Posts" / latest activity is what I head for straight away.To me it just works better at the top or bottom rather than the side.

Maybe there's a few people who like the sidebar so it will balance out :lookaroun

You can still see what the new posts / threads are by clicking either New Posts or What's New on the menu bar.


I've found something odd too...

If you go to a member's profile and click "Find all posts" it's no bringing any up or in the case of one member just one!

Please let me know if you want to know the members I checked and I will PM them to you.

Simon.

You can control what tags are associated with your thread when you create it. I think if you leave it blank the software takes a guess and creates them for you.

There are issues with the search function. I'm monitoring the vB site daily for fixes.


Think I found another bug. It ate my original reply but kept the quotes.

[Bob Hubbard]

Ok, I ran some of the suggested fixes for the search function. Could a few people run some searches and tell me if it's better/worse/the same please?

Thanks!

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

I just ran the same searches as earlier and it's pulling up the posts now. Good Work Bob! :)

[qwertz]

Theoretically, you can enable javascript, hide the side bar, then disable it again and it should stay hidden. I haven't tested that though. Unfortunately, many of the functions on the site require javascript to work. If you're running Firefox, you can install NoScript and have an option to allow/disallow scripts by site of origin. Other browsers may/may not have similar capability.

I already checked that out, before I made my lost post. that is not working. actually javascript is not really necessary for the site. I can read and write post without any javascript and many functions are working with rollovers that does not requite javascript.

Is there any user who likes the sidebar?

[Bob Hubbard]

If you want to hide the side bar, javascript seems to be necessary. Basic functions will work, however many will not. AJAX based functions for example work on javascript. There is no way that I'm currently aware of for me to adjust that option per account from the back end. vB recommends it be allowed for full functionality.

Rollovers are probably an ALT tag, though I'm not yet familiar enough with vB4 skins and template structure to be 100% certain.

Additional Issue
vB4 seems to really cause issues for anyone still using IE6. My suggestion to them, or anyone on an IE6 based browser (AOL for example) is to upgrade to IE 8 or switch to Firefox, Safari or Chrome as all 4 will render the site correctly. While the software company is working on a solution for IE6 users, the browser is obsolete and even Microsoft suggests folks switch.

[qwertz]

Rollovers are probably an ALT tag, though I'm not yet familiar enough with vB4 skins and template structure to be 100% certain.

sorry, but you are wrong. you can make e.g. drop down menus that just work with style sheets -- without any jacascript. there is some similar technique used here in vB. It's not about simply using an ALT tag. and... btw... ALT tags are not meant for rollovers and are therefore e.g. not displayed as such in firefox.

[Bob Hubbard]

This is the "forumhome_forumbit_level1_nopost" template.
You're right, they aren't using Alt tags, but Title tags which are pulling from forum variables.


<li class="forumbit_nopost L1" id="cat{vb:raw forum.forumid}">
<div class="forumhead foruminfo L1 collapse">
<h2>
<span class="forumtitle"><a href="{vb:link forum, {vb:raw forum}}">{vb:raw forum.title}</a></span>
<span class="forumlastpost">{vb:rawphrase last_post}</span>
<vb:if condition="!$show['collapsable_forums']">
<a class="collapse" id="collapse_c_cat{vb:raw forum.forumid}" href="{vb:raw relpath}#top"><img src="{vb:stylevar imgdir_button}/collapse_40b.png" alt="" title="{vb:rawphrase collapse_this_category}" /></a>
</vb:if>
</h2>

<vb:if condition="$show['forumdescription'] OR $show['subforums']">
<div class="forumrowdata">
<vb:if condition="$show['forumdescription']"><p class="subforumdescription">{vb:raw forum.description}</p></vb:if>

<vb:if condition="$show['subforums']">
<div class="subforums">
<h4 class="subforumlistlabel">{vb:rawphrase subforums}:</h4>
<ol class="subforumlist commalist">
{vb:raw forum.subforums}
</ol>
</div>
</vb:if>
</div>
</vb:if>
</div>
<vb:if condition="$childforumbits">
<ol id="c_cat{vb:raw forum.forumid}" class="childforum">
{vb:raw childforumbits}
</ol>
</vb:if>
</li>


I ran some tests on IE7 and javascript is required to dismiss the side box, as well as for the new post indicator to work. Some functions in the WYSIWYG editor also seem broken when you disallow javascript. There is nothing I can do about that unfortunately.

[qwertz]

I ran some tests on IE7 and javascript is required to dismiss the side box, as well as for the new post indicator to work. Some functions in the WYSIWYG editor also seem broken when you disallow javascript. There is nothing I can do about that unfortunately.

I have no problem with the missing functions in the editor. and actually I already managed to get rid of the sidebar. I did not hide it, but I placed it below the main content -- similar as Simon has wished for. :)

I am using Firefox together with this add-on: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2108

and I wrote a css script for this site to change the location of the sidebar, the size of some areas and I got rid of some annoying shadows and background images. so by now everything is ok for me -- again. :)

thanks for your time!

[Bob Hubbard]

Cool. Wasn't aware of that plug in. I'll check it out.

[arnisador]

I don't like the sidebar, but I do wonder if someone deciding whether or not to join the site would become more interested because they see snatches of a few conversations?

Oh, and qwertz--you're hired!

[qwertz]

Oh, and qwertz--you're hired!

If some one is using Firefox and is interested in the changes (e.g. moving the sidebar after the main content), you can install this script with this link here: http://userstyles.org/styles/25374 -- if you already are using the Firefox add-on &quot;stylish&quot; (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2108). have fun.

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm holding off on installing the 4.02 upgrade until I can test it. I'm not thrilled with the problem reports I'm seeing on the vB site. I've tentatively scheduled this for the 27th, and if all goes well should only be about an hour of downtime total.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Just an observation...

Datu Tim has a incredibly interesting life and it's great to see him out and about sharing his wealth of FMA Knowledge with the public.

However, IMHO the twitter posts that are being pulled up are having the same effect as the "Philippines News" bot from a few months back.

As of right now I can not see any new posts just the twitter ones to the right of the forum. I rely on that panel to see the new forum posts. The "number of new posts" to the top of the forum does absolutely nothing for me when I click it in Google Chrome.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Simon.

[silat1]

I agree with Simon. The Twitter postings are distracting.. I look at the new topics and all I see is twitter/tweets, so I close the page and don't come back for a day or two..

[jwinch2]

I have to agree with this. I actually just sent a message to a mod yesterday asking if there was something that could be done to block this. I appreciate Tim for managing this site, but I find myself staying away lately because I know I am going to see 15 posts about things which have nothing to do with FMA when I come on here. Its more than distracting in my view...

[Brian R. VanCise]

Thank you all for stating your opinions we definitely appreciate it and will address it!

[Bob Hubbard]

There is always the option to post a lot more and drown them all out, but I agree they could be reigned in a bit.

[Bob Hubbard]

I edited the feed to post a maximum of 2 tweets per 4 hours.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Thanks admin for your quick response - a feature of this forum and the backbone is it's success I feel.

However, I wonder if the fix will do it as people aren't posting like they used to.

I usually check in a couple of times a day and since this skin went live a few months back my impression is that there are a lot less posts. You would have the stats to disprove this so I could be wrong.

I know there are tweaks users can do to the skin so we can get a better functionality out of the "New Posts" but how many people actually do things like this? Most will log in, see that side bar all clogged up with non FMA stuff and log out again.

I suppose we can all play a part to start new threads as we are a community. However, it might also be an idea for members of the admin team to also throw a few threads out there for discussion too. For my part I will go and have a ham sandwich and think of a good topic....

Simon.

[qwertz]

However, I wonder if the fix will do it as people aren't posting like they used to.

my guess is, that it won't do it. If I want to read the tweat, I can go to twitter. I do not see, what it has to do with this site -- beside that's the tweet of the owner of this site. But this does not qualify it to be posted here imho.

has anyone explained why it is seen as a valid contribution to this site?

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Bob and I are experimenting with the new software. This past weekend I was at the PIG in Chicago. The tweets where an attempt to see how practical it would be to give updates of how the weekend was going. I think if all the tweets where linked as posts on the same threads it could be beneficial. Obviously this was not the case. I will be meeting with Mr. Hubbard next and will be discussing our options. As new apps are available we'll be experimenting to see what is best for the site. Your input is all ways welcome.

[arnisador]

We definitely appreciate the feedback! The new version of the software has had pluses and minuses. We're trying out the Twitter and Facebook integration and need to hear what's good and no so good. This version also has blogs and we haven't done much with that yet. We'd like to get more posts. The new version has not been as popular as hoped but unfortunately we need some of the "under the hood" improvements that came with it. Updates to it continue to come along and we will implement them!

Does anyone have something they'd like to see by way of Twitter or Facebook or blog or similar integration?

-Arnisador
-FMAT Admin

[Carol]

Less of it? To cross post that stuff here, to me, it just looks like tweeters can't be bothered with the community to log on and report about what is going on.

Personally I would greatly prefer to see a detailed writeup at the end of the day, rather than yet another "I'm in X doing Y" soundbyte.

I apologize for my blunt nature. It is nothing personal, I am just not very good at being tactful.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I'm hoping that there will be a plug in so we can use a smart phone to post. Unfortunately I don't always have access to a computer. I tried logging in on my phones web browser. 10 minutes later I gave up. Like I said before, we'll be experimenting with new apps. Some people will like and others people won't.

[Bob Hubbard]

Merging all the tweets into 1 thread cleans up the clutter, but has to be done manually.

Concerning the "differences" in the software, the majority of functions work as they always have, though some have been moved around a bit. Any major update will do this and people will have to simply learn where new things are. Unless you're still running Windows 1.0, in which case how'd you even get on the net? ;)

I just got home from my uncles funeral, and will be taking a few more days 'off' to catch up and catch my breath. Next week I'll plan the next update and look to see what if any add-ons there are that will improve the site. Going back to the old software is not an option.

As to content, that's up to everyone to provide. I've tried posting stuff, set up feeds to bring in stuff, without success. So, I leave that up to y'all. I'll be manning the engines, y'all steer the ship.