Is the Bayonet Obsolete?

[Darrin Cook]

I have a new post (http://bigstickcombat.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/are-bayonets-obsolete/) on my blog about a debate in the US army whether or not to continue bayonet training.

I was surprised to discover that the bayonet is still used in combat, as recently as the Iraq war.

I'm curious to find out if anyone uses a bayonet in a home defense situation. I think that a shotgun or a low powered rifle outfitted with a bayonet would be a very effective weapon for the home. I'm uncertain as to its legality, though. I remember that part of the "assault weapons" ban had to do with outlawing bayonet lugs, which somehow made certain guns evil.

Let me also recommend Cold Steel (http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-John-Styers/dp/087364025X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264962782&sr=1-3), a classic book on Marine Corps self-defense with the bayonet, knife, stick, and bare hands. It's an old book, but I don't know how you'd top it.

[jwinch2]

I do not have a bayonet on any of my at home weapons and though I feel they are valuable as tools I would be uncomfortable with adding several inches of extra length of a home defense weapon which would make it more difficult to clear a room and maneuver effectively. I currently have the paperwork underway to build a short barreled rifle which may alter my opinions a bit but not so far.

The other thing to consider is that adding a bayonet to an at home weapon is not going to look good to the LEO's who show up at the scene, a prosecutor, a judge, or jury. Its bad enough that I have an evil black rifle and an equally evil black shotgun. A bayonet would just increase the likelihood that people see things the wrong way.

[arnisador]

I understood that a big part of the reason for bayonet training is that the training helps develop an aggressive mindset, and that this was more important than the small chance of it being used.

[PG Michael B]

I have a few bayonets..take them off the weapon and you have a hefty knife.....keep them on the weapon and your ready for zombies. While I do not recommend a bayonet topped ak47 for home defense it damn sure has it's place when mutilating zombies..lol

As to the US Army still working the bayonet..I say hell yeah...gives them more applicable skills and in a combat zone one never knows when u have to resort to the bayonet.....it also is a major mind melt to the enemy when some crazy SOB starts hard charging your ass with intent to rip you from anus to ear lobe...psy ops 101 right there!

[Carol]

OK, Devil's Advocate here.

I don't doubt that bayonet training can help develop an aggressive mindset. But doesn't all most (effective) blade training develop an aggressive mindset? One of my carry blades is a Ka-Bar, which is not that much smaller than the average bayonet.

If I were to use my Ka-Bar in a self-defense scenario, I would have to get a helluva lot closer to the perp than I would if the blade was attached to the end of a long gun.

[arnisador]

With a bayonet you can take a run at a heavy bag and get your whole body into it in a way you wouldn't if you were thinking knife dueling, and you can practice it with padded staves...I think it may edo a better job of getting that "hard-charging" mentality in quickly, to a large group.

[sjansen]

OK, Devil's Advocate here.

I don't doubt that bayonet training can help develop an aggressive mindset. But doesn't all most (effective) blade training develop an aggressive mindset? One of my carry blades is a Ka-Bar, which is not that much smaller than the average bayonet.

If I were to use my Ka-Bar in a self-defense scenario, I would have to get a helluva lot closer to the perp than I would if the blade was attached to the end of a long gun.

If your using the normal size k-bar it is larger in length than any current US bayonet.

The M9 bayonet has a 7 inch blade and the standard K-bar is 8 inches.

[PG Michael B]

I don't doubt that bayonet training can help develop an aggressive mindset. But doesn't all most (effective) blade training develop an aggressive mindset?
NO....not all who train in blade work have the gumption to use it....where as in the military these guys who join infantry and similar units are young hard chargers who more than likely will taste combat in this detonator of a modern world we live in. The blade on the rifle means more to them than others of a civilian kind who simply go to Arnis class. These guys may need it for real time. Also, there is a huge difference in building an aggressive mindset living in relative peace, and developing an aggressive mind set knowing you will be headed to Iraq or Afghanistan...a huge difference!


If I were to use my Ka-Bar in a self-defense scenario, I would have to get a helluva lot closer to the perp than I would if the blade was attached to the end of a long gun.
Yeah Carol, but when ya go there you'd be packing quality steel ;)...lol..not a bad druther me thinks.

As to the long end of a gun...LONG STICK GOES BOOM...it is the preferred method...

[punisher73]

Why? If you are in your own home and are legally defending yourself. Why not shoot them with a shotgun? You have 4 rounds that you can choose between buck shot or slugs, if you opt for a tactical model, you usually have about a 7 shot capacity. Add a side saddle to it for another 6 rounds of ammo on it. You have 13 shots available now to you. Why would you turn the best QCQ weapon available for home defense into a short spear?

Tactically speaking, it doesn't make sense at all if you goal is to protect your home. If you are close enough to stab them with a bayonet, you are close enough to pull the trigger on them. If you need more than 13 shots at close range with a shotgun, then you need to spend more time out on a range running drills and understanding your weapon.

[arnisador]

Army Abandons Bayonets for Calisthenics (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/16/national/main6303184.shtml)

Trainers Hope Building Core Body Muscles Will Toughen Recruits, Better Train Them For Modern Battlefield (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/16/national/main6303184.shtml)


Adapting to battlefield experience in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Army is revamping its basic training regimen for the first time in three decades by nixing five-mile runs and bayonet drills in favor of zigzag sprints and honing core muscles.



On a recent training day Todd was spinning recruits around to give them the feel of rolling out of a tumbled Humvee. Then he tossed on the ground pugil sticks made of plastic pipe and foam, forcing trainees to crawl for their weapons before they pounded away on each other.

"They have to understand hand-to-hand combat, to use something other than their weapon, a piece of wood, a knife, anything they can pick up," Todd said.


"Most of these soldiers have never been in a fistfight or any kind of a physical confrontation. They are stunned when they get smacked in the face," said Capt. Scott Sewell, overseeing almost 190 trainees in their third week of training. "We are trying to get them to act, to think like warriors."

For hours, Sewell and his drill sergeants urge on helmeted trainees as they whale away at each other with pugil sticks, landing head and body blows until one falls flat on the ground. As a victor slams away at his flattened foe, a drill sergeant whistles the fight to a halt.