Kadena De Mano-Chain of Hands

[Viking]

Hi
Wonder anyone here practices this art.It was introduced by GM Max Samriento .It's taught as an empty hand and knife curriculum in Inayan Eskrima.How does it look like and how it's differant from Panantukan or Pangamut and about ,it footwork ,fighting principles etc.

Thanks

[monkey]

Angle tought this to many.Just so you know he did get that far with Max.
it has a kuntao flavor & yet most of whats done(which allows some veriations) it the same thing you did with the stick.
Even the drills.

[Viking]

Angle tought this to many.Just so you know he did get that far with Max.
it has a kuntao flavor & yet most of whats done(which allows some veriations) it the same thing you did with the stick.
Even the drills.

Thanks for the reply,can you please expalin the kuntao connection of Kadena de mano. Read like Bahala Na eskrima is also having the Kadena De mano in their curriculum

[monkey]

Sure Ill try my best;
From what I understood there were a few Escrima players in the
Balintawak line & now on Martial talk on the threds-- Discution Presas family art & -- What is tapi tapi master--Conyetes were magor part of the presas art.
The kuntao tha I was tought from Willie Wetzel had a certian flavor
to it.You know rolling take down to break the knee--body type sweeping kicks were youput 1 hand on floor & kind of short spin--the kick behind the knee & snapping of the neck from behind.
There were some of the flavors that also were kind of noticeable --a bit
watered down but still the art had its flavor & a kuntao player can taste it. I hope that helps,...


Mabuhay.

[Viking]

Thank you, great post
watered down ?you mean like it's devoid of animal styles found in kuntao or silat or it's not that destructive or brutal as Silat or kuntao styles.

thanks

[monkey]

Wated down ---It has detsructions--it has animals--just mostly has
focus to the Escrima intent.So the main of it is the lock & block.

Much like the stick some of the same lock n block is still stick orentaited.
Much like the stick the blade has the same path as the hands.
This dose not stop the player from adding more kuntao.
The amount of kuntao usealy is determined by the instructors arena of combat.
Small mind stay to the lock & block & dont exsplore.
The lock n block is like the hubud drill.Some only know the 4 count.
Some know the arena of play & add kicks-flips-throws-locks ect.
So if you have a good kuntao foundation--yes you can influence to drill.

[lhommedieu]

From what I understood there were a few Escrima players in the Balintawak line & now on Martial talk on the threds-- Discution Presas family art & -- What is tapi tapi master--Conyetes were magor part of the presas art

Would you please explain what you mean by "Conyetes were major part of the [P]resas art"?

My understanding is that Momoy Canete and Anciong Bacon were training partners under the Saavedras, but that each went his own way to found his own art. Momoy remained within the Doce Pares Club and founded San Miguel Eskrima, while Anciong left Doce Pares and went on to found Balintawak.

Do you mean that because Doce Pares and Balintawak had a rivalry for many years the Canetes (mainly Cacoy) had an influence upon the development of Balintawak? That makes sense and insofar as Remy Presas studied Balintawak, the Canete's could be said to have an influence (however indirectly) upon the development of Modern Arnis.

It is arguable that the Saavedras had an influence upon a variety of Cebu-based Filipino martial arts, insofar as there is a "family resemblence" among the arts that can count the Labangon Fencing Club, and later, the Doce Pares Club, as their historical antecedents. And while it is very difficult to determine exactly what that influence may be, it is interesting to note that the Saavedras were known to teach a style of eskrima called "tapi tapi," a form of controlled sparring at close quarters that emphasized the use of the empty hand to monitor and control the opponent's weapon.

Best,

Steve Lamade

[monkey]

For info on Doce pares & Presas line use this url

http://en.wikpedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas

For info on how kendo influenced the Presas go this url & look for article
by Fred Lazo you have scroll down a bit & click on were he shows 2 kendo shots

http://www.martialtalk.com/remy/memories.html

[lhommedieu]

Dear Tom,

My question was
Would you please explain what you mean by "Conyetes were major part of the [P]resas art"?

You responded with the following answer:


For info on Doce pares & Presas line use this url

http://en.wikpedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas

For info on how kendo influenced the Presas go this url & look for article
by Fred Lazo you have scroll down a bit & click on were he shows 2 kendo shots

http://www.martialtalk.com/remy/memories.html

I went to the first site that you recommended and found no information whatsoever about a connection between Doce Pares and Modern Arnis. In fact, there was no information about Filipino Martial Arts at all!. Typing in "Remy Presas" in the search box caused a window leading to the Canadian Modern Arnis Training Studio website, which is part of Jeff Delaney's IMAF, to pop up. Searching through that site for "Doce Pares" yielded no information either.

With respect to the second site, it would appear that Ernesto Presas studied Kendo for a while and Remy Presas and his brother paid a "good will" visit to Japan at some point (in the 70's?) to demonstrate Filipino martial arts.

Thank you.

Best,

Steve Lamade

[monkey]

One was a world dictionary staing that Conyetes were the major part of Remys training.He had time with Momoy "hence the anyos & judo came from".--the 2nd url if you scolled down would give you the info & old photos for the kendo arts that influanced the Presas.It had Ernesto
in full gear & Remy sparring Ernesto .
I felt you might enjoy that bit of family history of where--the history might play a mojor fact or just good info.

[lhommedieu]

Tom,

Sorry, but this page (http://en.wikpedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas) is what I get when I click on the link that you suggest. Where on this page (http://en.wikpedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas) is there a reference to Remy Presas training with Momoy Cantete?

If there is a link on the page that you suggest that contains the information that you describe, then which link is it and where on that link is the information to be found?

Best,

Steve Lamade

[monkey]

Let me offer this as help. since he ink isnt working right.
Go to martial talk.com
look for the threds
Discusion on Presas family
& Non FMA members.
Alot of that has come to serface.
Mind you there were some closed mined poeple & they tried
defermation on me.The Martialtalk is now undergoing new rules that 1 cannot go from forum to forum & talk other then intent of thred.
Too many tried defermation on me & from day 1- was not give a fair chance.
Many have protested on my behave & now new giudelines are being set.
But go to those 2 threds-Being that some did & some do not acknolage I contributed.The threds did in fact get info brought out
as I told & Soon it was shown to be acurrate.

So read it for the content--not the bias views that some will always exspress as I do not join thier little faction.

[arnisador]

I assume this link is meant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas

I created it and wrote a fair amount of it, so it's hardly from a neutral source.

[arnisador]

Let's leave MartialTalk issues on MartialTalk.

-Arnisador
-FMATalk Admin

[lhommedieu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas)

I created it and wrote a fair amount of it, so it's hardly from a neutral source.

Thank you. It says in the article that Remy Presas studied various Filipino martial arts besides Balintawak. But that's about it: nothing to connect GM Presas to the Canetes.

I checked out the "Discussion concerning Presas Family Styles" thread on MartialTalk and found one statement that was posted by Monkey about GM Presas studying with the Canetes:



Grandmaster Remy did balintawak & learned in Cubu. He actual had a little panandata - doce pares--arnis largo & serada.

I also checked out the "Remy Presas’ Non-FMA Teachers” thread on MT and here there was some further information that suggested that Remy Presas had contact with the Doce Pares club through tournaments and observing Doce Pares demonstrations, etc. That makes sense.

Rocky Pasiwk also states later in the thread that GM Presas studied with Momoy Canete:


Remy did study some Doce' Paris' from Momoy, if you take a good look at his foot work in Espad Y Daga the Doce influence is very evident.

As far as his Judo from Momoy I don't know .......but it makes sense since Momoy was into Judo.......I just don't know for sure....

I recently wrote a forward to Dan Anderson's new book on Espada y Daga wherein I make the conjecture that there are certain similarities between the various expressions of Doce Pares, San Miguel Eskrima, Balintawak, and Modern Arnis that might be traced to the influence of the Saavedras - especially given that Momoy Canete and Anciong Bacon were said to be training partners at one point. So when Monkey said that Doce Pares was an influence upon the development of Remy Presas' Modern Arnis it made me prick up my ears...

Thank you for your responses.

Best,


Steve Lamade

[arnisador]

Some sort of Doce Pares influence would not surprise me (as I indicated here (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=161)), and of course it's there indirectly via Balintawak. However, I have never heard of a direct Doce Pares-->Modern Arnis connection prior to this. It's interesting to hear these things! I find it easy to believe that Prof. Presas interacted with the Doce Pares group, though it's news to me.

[Viking]

Some kdm videos found in youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESQUnkPSngk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObU-tsEt3Cg

Have a look at this French guys of Kali Sikaran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo3PJnN9Iso

The empty hands have some similarity to Kdm

Regards

[Viking]

Inayan Kadena De mano
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xWrviw6M9Eo