Striking Patterns

[Datu Tim Hartman]

This got started elsewhere and got out of hand. Let's see what happens here?

What I have posted are the striking charts of Balintawak, Modern Arnis and the WMAA's Modern Arnis Patterns. Any and all observations welcome.

[JPR]

A curiosity question. On the Balintawak angles all of the odd strikes / thrusts are from the right (except the center line ones) the even from the left. However, the Modern Arnis / WMAA reverse the 6 and 7 thrusts as well as (for Modern Arnis) the 10 and 11 thrusts. Why is that?

JPR

[Datu Tim Hartman]

That’s a good question. Here is my theory. When Remy left Cebu for home, he promised not to teach Anciong’s system. This is because he didn’t want to compete with him. Also Remy’s expression of martial arts wasn’t Balintawak as appose to Balintawak being part of what he did. Now Remy liked the structure in Balintawak and adapted elements into the system, but added subtle changes to make it his own. In the case of the striking patterns he changed the order of the strikes.

If you look at the 12 strike program, all of the angles (except for 5 & 12) are taught in pairs. Each Pair has a forehand and backhand version. I think one reason for the change may have been an attempt to create a better teaching structure. If you look at the Modern Arnis pattern the pairs start out with the forehand strike on each set (except the 8&9). I think that this makes the pattern easier to learn. Why didn’t Remy change 8 & 9? I don’t know. On many occasions I have contemplated changing the order to improve on the teaching format.

Now my statement is based on personal conversations with Remy as well as researching the Balintawak roots in Modern Arnis since 2000. I’m looking forward to more input on this topic.

[Woodsman]

Well, I think that it was just easier to go from 7 to 8 when doing it as a group. And tactically I think it might be a natural move that if your 7 gets blocked you go right down to an eight, rather that trying to take the time to go all the way across the body. (Which you wouldn't really have) So, I think it works as a practice set and as an actual application. :)

[Woodsman]

PS Nice Diagram. (seriously)

[Datu Tim Hartman]

PS Nice Diagram. (seriously)
Thanks.

[Dan Anderson]

That’s a good question. Here is my theory. When Remy left Cebu for home, he promised not to teach Anciong’s system. This is because he didn’t want to compete with him.
Not quite exactly as it happened. From a video taped interview with Joe Rebelo:

"I leave but I went to the grand master, you know, the one who help me and I told him, this grand master, 'If I leave this place, don't consider me I am your student anymore but consider me your friend. If I leave this place I will organize my own system for self-defense.' and that's what I did. And the guy said, 'Okay, Remy. I thnk I understand. You can go and organize your own.' I still use their system. I change all the characteristics. I'm not interested in fighting. I'm interested in education."

This and other data is included in my book, Modern Arnis - The Art Within Your Art.

As to the numbering system, I feel it is important in teaching offense. Targeting is very important, especially when you change the characteristics of the weapon you use from impact weaponry to cutting weapons. Defensively it reduces down to the recognition of motion and numerical targeting takes a back seat.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Not quite exactly as it happened. From a video taped interview with Joe Rebelo:

"I leave but I went to the grand master, you know, the one who help me and I told him, this grand master, 'If I leave this place, don't consider me I am your student anymore but consider me your friend. If I leave this place I will organize my own system for self-defense.' and that's what I did. And the guy said, 'Okay, Remy. I thnk I understand. You can go and organize your own.' I still use their system. I change all the characteristics. I'm not interested in fighting. I'm interested in education."
Not quite the way Remy told at my house. The interview could have been a little more accurate.

:bow:

[Brian R. VanCise]

Tim and Dan,

I have heard almost identical versions of both of your stories!
Maybe there is some truth in both versions! By the way Tim I
do like how you set up your charts! Way cool!

Brian R. VanCise

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Tim and Dan,

I have heard almost identical versions of both of your stories!
Maybe there is some truth in both versions! By the way Tim I
do like how you set up your charts! Way cool!

Brian R. VanCise

Thanks! Would you like me to send you a copy?

[Black Grass]

Looking at all three diagrams I have to wonder why there are no upward stroke ( aldabis, ocho-ocho, upward figure eight - sorry can't remember the M.A. term offhand).

If the 12 Strikes are the the bases of Modern Arnis this seems to me to be a critical peice missing.

Vince
aka Black Grass

[Black Grass]

Looking at all three diagrams I have to wonder why there are no upward stroke ( aldabis, ocho-ocho, upward figure eight - sorry can't remember the M.A. term offhand).

If the 12 Strikes are the the bases of Modern Arnis this seems to me to be a critical piece missing.

Vince
aka Black Grass

[arnisador]

Ocho-ocho is a striking style in Modern Arnis, like banda y banda, up-and-down, and rompida. It's in the system, but isn't explicit in the basic 12 strikes. We consider that it's there implicitly as a reverse angle #1 followed by a reverse angle #2. Rompida gives the reverse angle #12 (straight up, with blade awareness) and up-and-down is the same but without blade awareness (i.e., as if the blade were reversed).

[Woodsman]

With all due respect, I think I actually heard somebody ask that to the side in a seminar hosted by Datu Hartman ... circa 95 ish... and Professor said "it is the same as the number 3 and number 4 strike... there is no difference"

[Woodsman]

Even though strictly speaking there is a difference, he seemed to feel you handled it the same way.