Tournament Formats

[WT_ATL]

We've pushed up clips of some of the tournaments that we've sponsored. It's interesting to see how the formats differ from tournament to tournament.

http://www.smakstiks.com/media.php

What Tournament Formats do you like to see in tournaments and why (i.e., point sparring, continous sparring, weapons only, weapons and empty hand, etc...).

[oosh]

thanks for the clips, what tournament is that from in the PI ?

[WT_ATL]

It was a Bakbakan Tournament.

[Ron B]

WT_ATL

thanks for posting the tournament footage if you can post more please do and if you can post more after that please do as well.one question for you how do the smak sticks hold out when you use a fencing mask. please let me know either by replying here or if this was not an approriate question in this forum please IM me or email me at rbuchholz68@yahoo.com
thanks.to moderators please let me know if the question about the smak stiks was out of line and delete the message.

[Johan]

Hi!
I think that all of the mensioned sparring formats äre usefull. The major mistake among many FMA-practitioners today is the thinking of a supreme format of stickfighting i think. The FMA is such a varied form aof martial arts that is required several different forms, dont you agree?

the padded sticks are great for introduction to stickfighting, the sticks-only is a good way to isolate the stickwork and stick and empty-hands are great for bringin realism in and the concepts of empty-hand combined with the stick.

Even Pointsparring (as in not continuos) have benefits such as focusing on clear, crisp shoots. Even though i beleive that spectatorwise it would'nt be very interesting ;).

Stickfighting with real sticks (rattan) is also very good, but not so many is actually willing to put the risk and effort in. this is easily compared to many other martial art formats; there is for exampel amatuer and professional boxing, or different classes in most MMA-competitions etc etc.

What im trying to get at is that the great variety of the FMA is best kept with a great variety of competition ;)

Johan

[oosh]

"the padded sticks are great for introduction to stickfighting"

I think they are good for all levels of practitioners.

[Phadrus00]

Hi!
I think that all of the mensioned sparring formats äre usefull. The major mistake among many FMA-practitioners today is the thinking of a supreme format of stickfighting i think. The FMA is such a varied form aof martial arts that is required several different forms, dont you agree?

the padded sticks are great for introduction to stickfighting, the sticks-only is a good way to isolate the stickwork and stick and empty-hands are great for bringin realism in and the concepts of empty-hand combined with the stick.

Even Pointsparring (as in not continuos) have benefits such as focusing on clear, crisp shoots. Even though i beleive that spectatorwise it would'nt be very interesting ;).

Stickfighting with real sticks (rattan) is also very good, but not so many is actually willing to put the risk and effort in. this is easily compared to many other martial art formats; there is for exampel amatuer and professional boxing, or different classes in most MMA-competitions etc etc.

What im trying to get at is that the great variety of the FMA is best kept with a great variety of competition ;)

Johan

Indeed! Experiencing sparring with sticks and with the dagger is essential to appreciating the art. I had done some sparring with padded sticks over the years with mixed results. Padded Knives work very well but the sticks were more problematic due to their thickness and flexion characteristics.

However studying Doce Pares has opened my eyes! We spar with real rattan and use fencing helmets, gloves, and a body protector that extends almost to the elbow. This puts so much into context! You can really see how effective disarms will be, you can understand the importance of working the WHOLE body and not just trying to smack the head, you appreciate how FAST the sticks are.

To your point Johan I think that all forms of sparring bring something to the table. Ultimately though testing out what you have learned in the crucible of combat (in a protected, controlled manner of course!) is the only way to really understand how it fits together.

Rob

[Johan]

To your point Johan I think that all forms of sparring bring something to the table. Ultimately though testing out what you have learned in the crucible of combat (in a protected, controlled manner of course!) is the only way to really understand how it fits together.

Rob

But what is "the crucible of combat" then? is it to protect the Body and hands WEKAF style? or should one go realcontact (DB-style). I think you just highlighted my point here ;)

Even DB-style isn't done with hardwood for exampel. However for me the Formula 1 of stickfighting certainly is realcontact.

I personally dont like pading my body and wearing heavy helmet so when it comes to more "protected" forms of tournament I prefer to pad the stick, ie: use smakstik or something equivalent.

This does not mean that I dont understand the bennefits of bodyprotectors and a real stick, I just mean that the Wekaf-style is hardly a better fightsimulator than padded sticks.

Johan

[ryangruhn]

one question for you how do the smak sticks hold out when you use a fencing mask.

I will continue to stress that the two sticks I got at the beginning of SMAK-STIKS that I train with at least three times a week in sparring have held up rather well against our Dog Brothers format sparring with fencing masks. The outside shell has had a few snags but nothing that has impaird the stick in any way.

Woof!

Gruhn

[Ron B]

Gruhn thanks for the info

Ron B

[Phadrus00]

But what is "the crucible of combat" then? is it to protect the Body and hands WEKAF style? or should one go realcontact (DB-style). I think you just highlighted my point here ;)

Even DB-style isn't done with hardwood for exampel. However for me the Formula 1 of stickfighting certainly is realcontact.

I personally dont like pading my body and wearing heavy helmet so when it comes to more "protected" forms of tournament I prefer to pad the stick, ie: use smakstik or something equivalent.

This does not mean that I dont understand the bennefits of bodyprotectors and a real stick, I just mean that the Wekaf-style is hardly a better fightsimulator than padded sticks.

Johan

Johan,

Your point is very well taken. "The Crucible of Combat" is only really faced when it's real sticks, with no armour, and you are fighting for your life. Unfortunately that scenario tends to result in a lot of collateral damage and we must find approximations to allow us to train and explore.

I applaud your tenacity and commitment to the art in that you are willing to train without padding and rely on the padded stick. Personally I found that I ended up with too may injuries using that approach although I have to admit that I have not used SMAK-Sticks *grin*. In the school I attend we spar with heavy head gear and body padding as well as with gloves. This protection allows us to use rattan sticks and tends to reduce collateral damage conderably while still leaving enough stick and concusion energy to make getting hit "unpleasant" *grin*. Even through the body padding there is lots of force coming through to incetivise one from simply "taking it". The gloves do change to feel of the weapon and the body padding reduces ones agility to some degree but it does allow for training intensity and endurance.

When we do knife sparring we use padded weapons and no armour. this is a qualitatively different expereince and makes one appreciate the value of agaility and quickness when the knife is involved! *smile*

Ultimately I think each one of us must decide how close we want to come "to the heat", as it were, in sparring. For many of us that judgement has to be made as a risk assessment of the value of the expereince versus the risk of injury and it's impact on your daily life. I teach in the evenings and have a full time job and frankly can't risk a broken finger or hand and would feel awkward explaining a missing tooth or black eye to my manager. We each must solve that calculus for ourselves. But I thkn the value of pursing "realistic" sparring of some form or another is enourmous!

Best Regards,
Rob

[Johan]

Hi again Rob!

I beleive we mean the same thing here. Its nice that the FMA isn't restricted to one form of sparring. if it was it would be a poorer sport and art. I do to serach ways to make sparring possible without risking to much as many seek this kind of thrill. However it would be very sad if we the FMA would become totally riskfree and that the form of sparring was only "safe", ie: the form of sparring that we in see in for exempal fencing now a days.

Btw I always use headgear ;) if it seemed that I meant otherwise it was only wishfull thinking ;).

Johan