Teovel Balintawak Self-defense system

[Soncen]

There were demos on video about our FMA the Balintawak style. The Balintawak martial art was divided into two system of instruction, the ungrouped method from the original and grouped method of instruction introduced by Mr. Velez, but just the same knowledge you will learn when you mastered it, although I prepare the grouped method as I started it in this way. Those demonstrations of Balintawak in video were a drill-training exhibition of the advance lesson displaying holds and repetition of figure forms varying the tempo and delivery of strikes.

The purpose of which is for student to get used on lifting-clearing or removing the holds to counter-defend on most probable takedowns or grappling techniques that could be most possibly be applied by the enemy. Succeeding strikes, counter-strikes and re-counter could also be busted, but all strike attempts were to be in controlled manner in order not to hurt the student and all counter-attacks or return-strike of student were also in controlled manner. Power blows, kicks, double or triple attacks were only to be used to an actual fight with an enemy. There were also a drill exercise on power blows, pushing and pulling and double or triple attacks taught by Anciong Bacon, but those were secrets in our self-defense fight that cannot be divulged in public viewing.

Our organization (the Teovel Balintawak self-defense club in Mandaue City, one of the twelve chapter division component of the Teovel Balintawak group International, known to be the yellow chapter club division under the leadership Teofilo V. Roma) maintained the standard secrecy enforced by our Grandmaster Teofilo A. Velez the teacher of my teacher Teofilo V. Roma as he once said that our martial art should not be gone to violent people.

Mr. Velez was student to Atty. Jose Villsin the student of Venancio (Anciong) Bacon the inventor of the Balintawak martial art.

Wilson R. Ceniza

[Toasty]

There were demos on video about our FMA the Balintawak style. The Balintawak martial art was divided into two system of instruction, the ungrouped method from the original and grouped method of instruction introduced by Mr. Velez,
Wilson R. Ceniza

Greetings Mr. Ceniza, I enjoy your posts on the other Balintawak board as well.

One question though, I was under the impression (by doing much research & what is commonly stated in many media foms) that the "grouped method" was devised (introduced) by Joe Villasin, who then taught it to Mr. Velez?
It appears as though you are stating above that the "grouped method" of instruction was developed by Mr. Velez. Is this the case, or merely a typo error?

BTW - I do not train in the grouped method.

thanks in advance
Rob

[Soncen]

Hello Rob,

My teacher Teofilo V. Roma knows the real story and everything that is happening in the organization because he is an active member and very close to Mr. Velez his teacher and he knows the truth about the grouped method of instruction, which Mr. Velez had innovated and demonstrated it first to his children for testing the effeciency of instruction and then he introduced it to Atty. Villasin his teacher for approval as a sign of respect before proceeding to use it to other students. Atty. Villasin found it easier for a teacher to impart the skill and would be easier for the student to cope up moves in preparation for a tripping, pushing and pulling, double and triple attack, stick locks and opponent’s arm control, speed, power and precision of counters and re-counters in the “cuentada” lessons. Atty. Villasin was impressed with the idea and he made some arrangements on the order of application such as figures and forms that would be included in the group # 1, #2, #3, #4 and #5.

The honor was credited to Atty. Villasin out of Mr. Velez loyalty to his teacher because that is what he had always been doing all his life to honor and respect his teacher. There is only one thing that they differ in opinion and ideas where Atty. Villasin a loyal follower to Anciong Bacon keep his promise not to publicly teach the art for the reason that it might be copied by other people and Mr. Velez at first had followed the same principle. But on the passing day he changed his mind for he believed that their martial art must be known throughout the world, especially when on that moment their were foreigners taking videos for documentary about our Filipino Martial art and he was one of the invited guest to demonstrate the Balintawak self-defense system.

Mr. Velez explained the reason about the change of his mind, but Atty. Villasin was not been so happy of this development. Mr. Velez only proceeded and goes on his own way, but every time he was interviewed by ordinary people or any people from the media, he would always mention the name of Atty. Villasin to honor him as his teacher and that everything he learned was coming from him in his desire to appeased him in his grudge to Mr. Velez. Media people and even ordinary people come to him to congratulate right after every exhibition show that Mr. Velez had just performed, believing that the grouping method of instruction was his own innovation. But for me this is now the time that the entire world may know the whole truth, there’s no reason of telling a lie here.

It cannot be denied that like other student of Anciong, Atty. Villasin had also contributed a lot in the propagation of the Balintawak martial art. But it is Mr. Velez who work very hard in promoting our martial art by demonstrating it in an exhibition shows so that it may be shown to other country and that people outside the Philippines may know that there is another kind of Filipino Martial art such as the Balintawak, which was invented by Anciong Bacon. Mr. Velez principles encouraged other student of Anciong Bacon to come out and present their knowledge of the Balintawak such as Teddy Bu-ot, Arnulfo Mongcal, Timor Maranga and etc., and even the children of Atty. Villasin (Ver and John) are now in the internet promoting their own Balintawak self-defense.

I understand that the children of Atty. Villasin believed that their father was the first to innovate the teaching of the Balintawak into grouping method and I expect reaction from them. But I think whether it is Atty. Villasin or Mr. Velez who innovated it first the important is that we must be united as brother Balintawak and I believed that Atty. Villasin being a teacher to my Grandmaster has always to be honored as one of the best Balintawak teacher of all time to his close friends and relatives and best remembered for defeating Delfin Lopez in a duel. Delfin Lopez was a feared arnis fighter in his time.

Wilson R. Ceniza

[Toasty]

Wow, new developments!!
Thanks for the very wll worded & respectful reply.
Hope to have more conversations with you regarding Balintawak Eskrima.

BTW, my teacher is Ted Buot.

thanks again
Rob

[SAL]

Hello Soncen

I am interested in knowing what your recollections are of Remy Presas' role in the Balintawak tradition.
I trained Modern Arnis with Professor Presas and I am training Balintawak in Ted Buot's lineage.

Sal Todaro (Cebu West - WMAA)

[Soncen]

Hello Mr. Sal Todaro,

Thanks for posting here!!!

In the conversation of my teacher Teofilo V. Roma with his contemporary teacher, I would usually overheard them talking about Remy Presas especially during a gathering. According to Roma my teacher, Remy Presas has really had ended trained with Mr. Velez in the 1970’s but had stop shortly after he begrudged the Velez brothers, Eddie Velez the youngest of the siblings was so much had personally affected, he felt offended in one occasion when Remy had done something that for them is wrong, not acceptable to the Velez brothers. The grudge was too personal and not related to martial arts. Remy had to stop training to avoid altercation with the Velez brothers and he was unable to finished even the basic lessons in the Teovel Balintawak teaching.

Presas transferred training to Timoteo Maranga but I heard that he did not follow the teaching of Maranga but instead he was only inventing his own style that he called the modern arnis. Presas martial art style cannot be called a Balintawak because according to some who had seen his exhibition show is too different from our Balintawak style though did not claim either that his style is Balintawak although he trained with Timoteo Maranga. There was one occasion when Remy had demonstrated an exhibition show here in Cebu, but after the show Drigo Maranga son of Timoteo Maranga was complaining to Remy and tell him that it is not the way his father had taught to him.

Those were stories that I only overheard about him here in Cebu, as I did not know or see him personally. Several people also had desired to train with his modern arnis style as they must be thinking or had seen it most effective than our own, so I may say that it would only depends upon on the individual’s taste and personal desire and everybody was entitled to their own opinions and dislikes. But for me I believed that his short stint in the balintawak is not enough for him to be called a Balintawak practitioner, as he did not even finished the basic lesson of the Teovel’s teaching and he did not follow the Maranga’s teaching granting that he finishes all the lessons of the Balintawak from him.

Modern arnis is a good martial art but I think you are the best person to differentiate it from the Balintawak style because you had trained in both style. No offend to the Modern arnis followers this is only my honest disposition.

Respectfully,

Wilson R. Ceniza

Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club
Mandaue City, Cebu, Philippines

[Brian R. VanCise]

Wilson,

I enjoy your posts quite a bit. Very informative. Thank you and I hope
you keep posting at FMATalk.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[Rocky]

Professor Presas actually based alot of his Modern Arnis ( self defense) on Balintawak, he trained for anout 2 years with GM Anciong and from and ten about 4 years with both Moncol and Maranga First Timor Maranga and his blend of Balintawak and personal family style, then he spent a number of years with Moncol and his blend of Balintawak Moncol was important to Professor Presas because he was left handed as was Professor....Gm Buot, and even GM Cannete' of Doce Pares say that Professor was one of the better Balintawak fighter to come out of GM Bacons Liniage.



Rocky

[Cruentus]

A lot of respect goes to Professor Remy Presas, though, in that he never claimed to teach Balintawak formally.

He learned from many Balintawak masters, but would not teach Balintawak formally as he felt that his Balintawak was not a pure representation of the tradition. According to more then one source, Professor Remy promised Noy Anciong that he would not teach Balintawak because he was unable to complete his training.

Even much later, after Professor was established and very popular in the states, some of his students in Michigan (Rocky being the main one; he can back this up) had asked if he could teach them Balintawak. Remy told them, "If you want to learn Balintawak you go to Ted Buot. This is because what I have is not pure..." Professor Presas recommended many of his best students to Manong Ted; like Rocky Paswick, Jaye Spiro, Jim Power and members of his club, and Tim Hartman to name a few.

This is very noble. In the cut throat business of martial arts, not many other teachers would be as honest about their Balintawak background, or be as noble as to recommend some of his best students to train with another instructor. One has to give him credit where it is do, as he certianly gave credit to other masters when he was alive.

Also, Manong Ted as well as other Balintawak players respected Remy as a fighter, regardless of what Balintawak he had. This is also very important to note.

Paul

[Cruentus]

(Rocky being the main one; he can back this up) had asked if he could teach them Balintawak.

By "main one" I meant that he was the first one to be recommended by Prof. Presas to Buot. I believe that was true, anyways.

[Rocky]

Paul you are right about Remy being loyal to GM Bacon. When ever he taught me Balintawak he would say this was Moncols stuff or Temors stuff. When we found out Ted was in Michigan back in 1982 Remy begged Ted to start teaching me so that I could get the pure stuff. I think GM Buot liked it to becuase keep in mind that Remy trained with a lot of Balintawak blends because he also want to learn techniques that would work against Balintawak. So GM Buot wuld have a good time when I would try one of Remy's techniques against his pure Balintawak, and we would work on how to counter what Remy learned to counter the pure Balintawak. This is why Remy incoprerated so much block and lock and and jams to his Balintawak because he noticed ANciongs people had problems with it. Now fast forward 30 years and I was asking GM Buot how to counter Remy's block n Locks and jams......This was some of the best training I ever had..... Years before, because I was one of the few Modern Arnis guys who got along with Gm Gije I would do the same with them I would learn a counter from one then ask the outher how to counter it, it was a lot of fun......

But back to Remy he always said in private and then later in about 1986 to the public that Balintawak is what made him a fighter.


Rocky

[Soncen]

Hello Rocky,

Thanks for some good information you have posted. What you’ve heard directly from Professor Remy Presas own story or from any other source would also be possible. But I hope I would not be misunderstood, Noy Anciong never had mentioned the name of Remy Presas as one of his students in his usual conversation with my teacher Teofilo V. Roma and I did not hear any rumors here in Cebu about Presas being badly beaten by Delfin’s nephew (possibly I only missed the information).

Cebu City is only a small place where everyone would know each other’s activities especially in the martial arts community, and the news of any events would easily be circulated around. Arnulfo Mongcal teaches the Balintawak in his home Province in Misamis Oriental in the south particularly in Cagayan de Oro City and it would also be possible for Presas to train with him because Cagayan is just twelve hours ride by ship from Cebu. Remy Presas was living in the town of Hinigaran, Province of Negros Occidental in the west from Cebu Province a six-hour travel by a bus to the port in Dumaguette City, Negros Oriental and navigate by sea in a small boat for two hours to reach the port of Santander in Cebu Province and travel by bus again for almost three hours to reach Cebu City. Presas come to Cebu for the purpose only to learn the Balintawak’s way of self-defense fighting when he hears the news about the efficiency of the art, but his training with the Teovel’s system was only so short. He also trained with Cacoy Canete of the Doce Pares Arnis and to Noy Timor Maranga, but he is not teaching the Balintawak’s way because he was not trained to teach the art as he did not completed the knowledge of the art but only learn a little from every teacher that he had gone thru added to his own knowledge in martial.

Remy Presas had won several tournaments in Karate but never use the little that he knows in Balintawak because our style is not acceptable to the Karate tournament’s rules and regulations (if he would insist in using the Balintawak, then he would surely loss in foul trouble). Balintawak made him to be a fighter and I think that is true, I heard a story about his fight against a man whom had abusing a certain young lady. That man a sugar cane plantation worker in his hometown of Hinigaran was allegedly a martial art practitioner whom he confronted for such malfeasance, but the man reacted differently causing him to use his knowledge in Balintawak and he was able to subdue him in a short while and from then on he was made popular in the whole province of Negros Occidental for his courage and knowledge in Self-defense fighting. There were rumors here in Cebu that allegedly he was only spying how the Balintawak’s way of fighting be applied in his research for martial arts to counter-defense to carry on his plan to be a father of Modern Arnis, but I did not heard him tested his Modern Arnis style to any Balintawak practitioners here in Cebu. He only had a great respect to every one of them in gratitude to his achievement in the field of martial art where the Balintawak had contributed a lot in his modern arnis popularity.

I would like to believe that he was able to find a counter-defense on the Balintawak’s way considering his long research and rehash of his Modern Arnis system of fighting though I still have some reservations, block n locks and jams could hardly be applied to a seasoned Balintawak practitioner in a real combat (juego todo) fight. I have read some of his books and I have noticed that some articles in it would not match to what I heard in reality, but I understand that, that it is his own way of doing things to project his image and everybody was entitled to their own ideals. No offend to the Modern Arnis followers all I was saying is only rumors around the circle as I did not witness all his activities here in Cebu and I did not met him personally. It would also be possible that others are only inventing stories to discredit him because of his growing popularity although for me personally I have no doubt that all I have heard is true and very credible, but I would accept if anybody could present a more credible story honestly than my own. I hope to be a friend to all. May God bless all our endeavors and us!!!

Respectfully,

Wilson R. Ceniza
Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club
Mandaue City, Cebu, Philippines

[Rocky]

Hello Rocky,

Thanks for some good information you have posted. What you’ve heard directly from Professor Remy Presas own story or from any other source would also be possible. But I hope I would not be misunderstood, Noy Anciong never had mentioned the name of Remy Presas as one of his students in his usual conversation with my teacher Teofilo V. Roma and I did not hear any rumors here in Cebu about Presas being badly beaten by Delfin’s nephew (possibly I only missed the information).

It was Delphanes nephew that Remy beat up, so Dalphane Wanted to beat up Remy.. This Story comes from GM Buot who is cousin to the guy Remy beat up and Gm Buot is also a nephew to Delphane.


GM Buot acknowledges Professor Presas as a senior to him in Balintawak, when Ted started to train with Anciong Remy had already left.

In fact here in the U.S very few people ever heard of Balintawak, because Professor never spoke of it or taught any techniques from it, until the early 80's when he taught me Moncol and Maranga's method, which is actually Remy's blend. However Remy never claimed to teach Original Balintawak since most of his training was with Moncol and Maranga which he openly admitted. In fact when Remy was training with Anciong, anciong had not even put Abecedario together yet, I tought Professor Abecedario in 1985. Then in 1983/4 we started showing a few little things here and there at seminars. Once Professor started to tell people about Balintawak, people started jumping on the ban wagon, you would not beleive how many people I ran accross back in the 80's that claimed to be doing Balintawak. Most had no Ideal what Balintawak was. GM Buot always told me when I met these people to not give them a chance to even move.

At any rate I realize the truth can get destorted from time to time which is why I have learned to take things with a grain of salt, but in most of Remy's Balintawak stories Gm Buot seems to remember things the same way. It was also their brotherhood in Balintawak that Brought Gm Presas and GM Toboada together. I realize they had a falling out but nonetheless it was Balintawak that brought them together.

As far as Remy's Modern Arnis please remember that Modern Arnis is not a stick fighting art! He develpoed it for Self Defense. Modern arnis is absolutely no match for Balintawak in a stick duel. Professor always refered to his art as the Filipino art of self defense. If trained properly Modern Arnis can be an effective stick fighting art, but that level is seldom reached, here in the States maybe a handful have reached this point and most of them have other Stick training or at the very least have gone to other stick fighting seminars, or a tremendoud amount of private training with Professor.

Rocky

.

[arnisador]

In fact here in the U.S very few people ever heard of Balintawak, because Professor never spoke of it or taught any techniques from it, until the early 80's when he taught me Moncol and Maranga's method, which is actually Remy's blend.

In fact, the first time I ever heard of Balintawak was in the late 80s at a Michigan camp, when Rocky was there and someone told me to check out his Balintawak techniques. I assumed initially it was a striking style of Modern Arnis like ocho-ocho, banda y banda, etc.

[Soncen]

It was Delphanes nephew that Remy beat up, so Dalphane Wanted to beat up Remy.. This Story comes from GM Buot who is cousin to the guy Remy beat up and Gm Buot is also a nephew to Delphane.


GM Buot acknowledges Professor Presas as a senior to him in Balintawak, when Ted started to train with Anciong Remy had already left.

In fact here in the U.S very few people ever heard of Balintawak, because Professor never spoke of it or taught any techniques from it, until the early 80's when he taught me Moncol and Maranga's method, which is actually Remy's blend. However Remy never claimed to teach Original Balintawak since most of his training was with Moncol and Maranga which he openly admitted. In fact when Remy was training with Anciong, anciong had not even put Abecedario together yet, I tought Professor Abecedario in 1985. Then in 1983/4 we started showing a few little things here and there at seminars. Once Professor started to tell people about Balintawak, people started jumping on the ban wagon, you would not beleive how many people I ran accross back in the 80's that claimed to be doing Balintawak. Most had no Ideal what Balintawak was. GM Buot always told me when I met these people to not give them a chance to even move.

At any rate I realize the truth can get destorted from time to time which is why I have learned to take things with a grain of salt, but in most of Remy's Balintawak stories Gm Buot seems to remember things the same way. It was also their brotherhood in Balintawak that Brought Gm Presas and GM Toboada together. I realize they had a falling out but nonetheless it was Balintawak that brought them together.

As far as Remy's Modern Arnis please remember that Modern Arnis is not a stick fighting art! He develpoed it for Self Defense. Modern arnis is absolutely no match for Balintawak in a stick duel. Professor always refered to his art as the Filipino art of self defense. If trained properly Modern Arnis can be an effective stick fighting art, but that level is seldom reached, here in the States maybe a handful have reached this point and most of them have other Stick training or at the very least have gone to other stick fighting seminars, or a tremendoud amount of private training with Professor.

Rocky

.
Hello Rocky,

Thanks for the information. But I am very sorry Remy’s name did not appear in the 1950’s and 60’s although it is also possible that I missed the information. I know the story because he had been a student to Mr. Velez my Grandmaster and the teacher of my teacher Teofilo V. Roma and I always overheard them talking about some of the students that had once been training under them, that includes the name of Remy Presas. Mongcal’s and Maranga’s Balintawak are original because they are a direct student to Anciong and if he learns the Balintawak from them, I think he would also be teaching the original Balintawak and because you are his student then you know the style in the original but if he only learns a little then what he taught to you is only a little because one cannot give more than a little of what he had. For Noy Teddy I cannot speak for his personality because I did not see him personally although I heard him to be one of the best students of Noy Anciong. Remy Presas although had not completed the training in Balintawak as I heard about him here in Cebu has a great respect to the people in Balintawak, he was even very generous to them and that was great of him being a loyal friend and he treated Bobby Taboada very will their in the U.S.A. I appreciate Noy Remy Presas being a good person as a whole, only that there were time when got mistake with the Velez family whom I think is not intentional that started with the misunderstanding but those were the days that had already forgotten and their friendship have been long ago had restored back to normal. I only mentioned it now to clarify things to let other people know of what had been transpired here in those days.

You are mentioning about arnis and I think I would have to tell you something about it if you wouldn’t mind. Arnis was not only a stick-fighting art, it comprises the kind of self-defense fighting that are using a bare hand combat, kicks, banging, judo locking, head banging, twisting joints, holds, take downs, throwing, biting, spitting, stick blows, bolo wielding, knife fighting and firearm defense at close range and etc. All I have mentioned above are all the component of Balintawak arnis, in short the broad meaning of arnis especially in Balintawak is a complete self-defense fighting. The word arnis here in Cebu was derived from the English word HARNESS and it all started during the Spanish period here in the Philippines where the Spanish authorities banned bringing of bolos and Kampilan and any bladed weapons in public and the Filipinos were prohibited to practice self-defense. But the Filipinos continued to practice in secret usually during nighttime in the middle of moonlight away from the watchful eye of the “Guardia Civil” and they are using a stick to conceal their activities. In a fiesta celebration Filipinos were conducting a stage drama presentation an entertainment show called Moro-moro. The story in the drama depicts the conflicts between Muslims and Christians, the stage preparation was well-decorated in colorful fine linen cloth and the presentation comes where the protagonist in a part of action thriller episode who wore a colorful costumes are fighting using a weapons called a Kris for the Muslim and a Bolo for a Christian but only represented with a rattan stick. The fight scenes are also played in bare-hand fighting, daggers, kicks and grappling and the whole presentation with the beautifully well-decorated stage preparation called harness in which Filipinos pronounced it as ARNIS.

Stick fighting in our Cebuano dialect was meant to be a “BINUNALAY” derived from the Cebuano word “Bunal” meaning to struck the opponent with a stick and if they are using a bolo it meant for us in Cebuano dialect as “TINIGBASAY” derived from the word “Tigbas” meaning to slash out to inflict severe wound. If the protagonist were fighting without weapons in their hands it mean for us in Cebuano dialect as “SINUKMAGAY” derived from the word “Sukmag” meaning attack using its bare hand and if using kick blows it mean for us “PINATIRAY” or “SINIKARAY” from the word “Patid” or “Sikad” and all this as a whole we called it ARNIS in our own dialect. Stick fighting principle was based on in bare hand combat and the stick is only an extension to the arm and besides stick is an object that is more painful when it hit than bare hand and the offender will not feel any pain in his hand. In the training of arnis we usually teach first the stick fighting so that when the student learn to use the object masterfully, it would be much easier for the practitioner to use empty hand now that there has no weight being placed in his hand. So therefore if you could have mastered in the art of stick fighting then you could be masterfully good in bare hand, because if you can masterfully holds, grapple, locks, throws kicks, blocks and parries with stick in your hand then how much more easier is it for you when you have your both hands working together with your both feet. The only disadvantage in bare hand combat is that you will feel the excruciating pain in your hand when it hit the opponent’s teeth or the bony parts of the body. I hope this explanation would be acceptable to the people out there as this is really what the Filipinos particularly we Cebuanos are meant to be about arnis.

Rocky, I appreciate of you being loyal to your teacher and that is a mark of a good follower. But if you say that Modern arnis is not a stick fighting art, then I would say to you that Balintawak arnis is not only a stick fighting art but a complete martial art and Remy Presas knew that, that is if only he completed the lessons in the Balintawak Self-defense system. Other martial artists have their own unique self-defense system, but the Balintawak is also a unique one for us because we have the complete line of defenses. Good self-defense fighting needs to have good training and drills for the mechanics of your skill to master your craft, but better self-defense is to destroy first the defense form of the enemy and force them to expose themselves for an easy prey, inflicting them with severe injury is part of our defense mechanism as a severely injured or a dead enemy could no longer be able to harm you. However the best self-defense that I really would like and yearning to do all my life and project it to all my students is to stay away from trouble, avoid altercation with people, refrain from insulting, trash talking, bragging and self-edification. The final lessons that I can only teach to my students and bring it wherever they would go is the humility, respect, honesty, sincerity, understanding and forgiving because that is also what I have learned .

I think you are right when you say that the truth was getting distorted as we can see around there were so many truths that are being published. I thank you for this very warm discussion, I have learned a lot from you and I hope you could still post some good information here. May God bless all our endeavors and us!!!

Respectfully,

Wilson R. Ceniza
Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club
Mandaue City, Cebu, Philippines

[Rocky]

I think you might be misunderstanding what I am saying about Modern Arnis...... First my background on Arnis and Eskrima...I started Pekiti Tersia Arnez ( as it was pronounced back then ) When I was about 8yrs old. The instructor Roberto Ancog was going to make us fight full contact with no pad as a test after about a year of training WE WERE only 8 to 12 years old....Needless to say he was kicked out of the Karate school he was teaching at and I never saw him again. about a year later I started Villibra's Kali under Sifu Jim Clark. In 1975 I met Remy by older brother would take me to seminars when he was in town. In 1982 I became a personal student of GM Presas he lived with my family off and on for the next almost 10 years he had his own bed room at our house, it was where he would go to get away from people who would bug him for rank and what not. Often times he would disapear for 3 to 6 months at a time and NO BODY new where he was, his older students will vouch for that......well he was at our house training me and spending time with my father a former Katch as Katch Can Wrestler and a Judo Master...... In 1982 he sent me to Gm BUot to get the traditional Balintawak because as I said before he never completed it. From about 1984 on Professor and I did mostly Traditional training he liked the challenge and he fast stick play...we had a lot of fun...unfortunately we had a falling out in the 90's and never really reconciled GM Buto tried to patch things up between us but it never really worked.......So at any rate I think I have a very good understanding of what Modern Arnis is and its back ground, including the arts of Crossada DeMano, and Palis Palis ( which is more of a Silat art ) at any rate what I was trying to put accross was that in Balintawak we try to make the student a "Professional" Stick fighter and Eskrimador someone that can fight another skilled fighter.

In Modern Arnis the primary focus is on basic self defense, how to defend yourself against the ordinary thug that trys to hit you with a stick or tire iron, or what not. I have know Idea about how Modern Arnis is tought back in the Philipines, I am sure that it is more combative, as is the way I teach it.

At any rate if you ever played with Remy hard and did actual free flow sparing you can see without a doubt the Balintawak influence. His method of grabbing jamming and control was all developed as a way to work against Original Balintawak which as you know does not grab the opponents stick.

At any rate the good thing is Professor brought Balintawak to light here in the U.S. it is also great to see it alive and doing well in the PI. I am thankfull for having the opportunity to do both the original and Remy's blend of it, reguardless of how he got it.

Yours in Balintawak

Rocky

P.S let us know if you ever get to the U.S, it would be cool to compare notes.

[Rich Parsons]

Good discussion - I thank everyone for posting it here. :)

[Robert Klampfer]

...in Balintawak we try to make the student a "Professional" Stick fighter and Eskrimador someone that can fight another skilled fighter.

Well said, Rocky.

Robert

[Soncen]

Thanks for the clarification Rocky!!!

Grabs, holds, tripping and disarming were also a component of the Balintawak Arnis self-defense system.


-Wilson R. Ceniza


P.S. I haven't been to the U.S.A. How I wish that I could!

[Rocky]

. I haven't been to the U.S.A. How I wish that I could!


THe great thing about the Balintawak brotherhood, is you will always have a connection and help finind a place to stay!!



Rocky

[Toasty]

Hey Rocky,

I didn't know Jim Clark ever taught kali/escrima... do you know where he got the Villabrille system (are you sure thats what it was?) and how much he had.

BTW, I used to train with Rocco Ambrose in the Wing Chun Do system - he is one of the top guys in it now...

[Rocky]

Hey Rocky,

I didn't know Jim Clark ever taught kali/escrima... do you know where he got the Villabrille system (are you sure thats what it was?) and how much he had.

BTW, I used to train with Rocco Ambrose in the Wing Chun Do system - he is one of the top guys in it now...

I always assumed it was Villabras because he got it from Danny Inosanto I was only 11 or 12 so those things didn't mean much to me, what we did do was a lot of drill stuff and we used these pathetic little thin sticks that as I got older I realized would only piss someone off if you hit them...
So at any rate thats why I refer to it as Villabras, it was something to do untill I hooked up with another PT guy and later with Remy i also did a short stint twith a guy teaching the Lastra method for about a year until he moved away, not being old enough to drive I had take what I could get or wait until my brother could take me to a seminar.


Rocky

[Toasty]

Thanks for the reply Rock...

[Rocky]

Thanks for the reply Rock...

Hey! No problem.....That will be $14.95.....:biggrinbo



Rocky

[manhattan1]

and even the children of Atty. Villasin (Ver and John) are now in the internet promoting their own Balintawak self-defense.


I am sorry to correct you, but GM. John Villasin (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/Villasin_Balintawak_Video_Clips_3) and GM. Ver. Villasin is cousins, only GM. John Villasin (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/Villasin_Balintawak_Video_Clips_2) is the son of late GM. Atty. Jose Villasin (http://www.visayanmartialarts.com/josevillasen.htm), not GM. Ver. Villasin....
I know this, because i am also a student of GM. John Villasin (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/Villasin_Balintawak_Video_Clips%20) and he told me that... :)

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk

[guillermo taboada]

HELLO MR JAN JENSEN,

PLEASE VISIT GM VER VILLASINS WEBSITE AT vervillasinarnis.freeservers.com MAYBE YOU WILL FIND THE TRUTH. THANK YOU

[manhattan1]

HELLO MR JAN JENSEN,

PLEASE VISIT GM VER VILLASINS WEBSITE AT vervillasinarnis.freeservers.com MAYBE YOU WILL FIND THE TRUTH. THANK YOU

Thanks for your answer, but i cant really see what that website changes?

I think they know what they are doing down here in Cebu City the Philippines (home of Arnis/Eskrima), where i live and train with Grandmaster John Villasin and i can tell you many down here knows he is the son of late Grandmaster Atty. Jose Villasin and consider him very skilled and his style a great FMA.... :)

Now that being said, what Grandmaster John Villasin said to me (directly), after some people on youtube asked if him and GM. Ver Villasin where related was that GM. Ver Villasin is his cousin and not the son of GM. Atty. Jose Villasin, he does not even teach the same "grouping system", but GM. John Villasin is the son of GM. Atty. Jose Villasin and teaches the complete system his dad did teach.....

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk)

[guillermo taboada]

thanks for your answer, but i cant really see what that website changes?

I think they know what they are doing down here in cebu city the philippines (home of arnis/eskrima), where i live and train with grandmaster john villasin and i can tell you many down here knows he is the son of late grandmaster atty. Jose villasin and consider him very skilled and his style a great fma.... :)

now that being said, what grandmaster john villasin said to me (directly), after some people on youtube asked if him and gm. Ver villasin where related was that gm. Ver villasin is his cousin and not the son of gm. Atty. Jose villasin, he does not even teach the same "grouping system", but gm. John villasin is the son of gm. Atty. Jose villasin and teaches the complete system his dad did teach.....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk)

hi mr jan,
very confusing isnt it? It is true that john villasin is the real son of ggm jose villasin and i know that. For you to find out the real answer is to email or call ver villasin and talk to him and tell him that you are very confused. I can not tell you myself because that is not my business, hope you get the answer from ver.
Fatherly advice about balintawak, dont post about the balintawak is the complete system, there are so many system that better than others, i have been doing this balintawak for almost 40 years and still not complete . Why, it is not complete? Because each technique has a counter, so it never ends. That means it is not complete.

[Rolando]

Why, it is not complete? Because each technique has a counter, so it never ends. That means it is not complete.

This really applies to all the arts.

[arnisador]

True, but...I see how this statement is more applicable to Balintawak than usual!

[manhattan1]

hi mr jan,
very confusing isnt it? It is true that john villasin is the real son of ggm jose villasin and i know that. For you to find out the real answer is to email or call ver villasin and talk to him and tell him that you are very confused. I can not tell you myself because that is not my business, hope you get the answer from ver.
Fatherly advice about balintawak, dont post about the balintawak is the complete system, there are so many system that better than others, i have been doing this balintawak for almost 40 years and still not complete . Why, it is not complete? Because each technique has a counter, so it never ends. That means it is not complete.

No its not really confusing, Grandmaster John Villasin was pretty clear about what he said to me and i train with him still so i am not really confused.... :)

I am not talking about "counter to counter", but that "grouping system" GM. Atty. Jose Villasin came up with, GM. John Villasin still uses that and just wanted to let me know, that his cousin GM. Ver Villasin does not use the same "grouping system"....I was talking in regards to GM. Atty. Jose Villasin and his "grouping system" system and that GM. Ver Villasin did not complete his training in that and thats why he does not use it. I did not talk about any "complete" Balintawak systems.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[guillermo taboada]

No its not really confusing, Grandmaster John Villasin was pretty clear about what he said to me and i train with him still so i am not really confused.... :)

I am not talking about "counter to counter", but that "grouping system" GM. Atty. Jose Villasin came up with, GM. John Villasin still uses that and just wanted to let me know, that his cousin GM. Ver Villasin does not use the same "grouping system"....I was talking in regards to GM. Atty. Jose Villasin and his "grouping system" system and that GM. Ver Villasin did not complete his training in that and thats why he does not use it. I did not talk about any "complete" Balintawak systems.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

HI MR JAN,

OH MY GOSHHHH,,, DID YOU SAY THAT GM VER DID NOT COMPLETE HIS GROUPPING SYSTEM? NOW I AM THE ONE WHO IS CONFUSED. I AM SORRY MR JAN. AND WHY IN THE WORLD THAT IN HIS WORLD WEBSITE GM VER VILLASIN SAYS THAT GRAND MASTER VER VILLASIN THE SON OF THE LATE GREAT GRAND MASTER ATTY. JOSE VILLASIN THE CREATOR OF THE BALINTAWAK GROUPING SYSTEM. IF YOU LOOK AT IT AGAIN AT vervillasinarnis.freeservers.com IF THAT IS NOT TRUE,THEN GRAND MASTER VER VILLASIN WILL ANSWER THOSE LIES.

SINCERLY YOURS TOO
GRAND MASTER BOBBY TABOADA

[manhattan1]

HI MR JAN,

OH MY GOSHHHH,,, DID YOU SAY THAT GM VER DID NOT COMPLETE HIS GROUPPING SYSTEM? NOW I AM THE ONE WHO IS CONFUSED. I AM SORRY MR JAN. AND WHY IN THE WORLD THAT IN HIS WORLD WEBSITE GM VER VILLASIN SAYS THAT GRAND MASTER VER VILLASIN THE SON OF THE LATE GREAT GRAND MASTER ATTY. JOSE VILLASIN THE CREATOR OF THE BALINTAWAK GROUPING SYSTEM. IF YOU LOOK AT IT AGAIN AT vervillasinarnis.freeservers.com IF THAT IS NOT TRUE,THEN GRAND MASTER VER VILLASIN WILL ANSWER THOSE LIES.

SINCERLY YOURS TOO
GRAND MASTER BOBBY TABOADA

No, i did not say that.....GM. John Villasin the son of GM. Atty. Jose Villasin said that, i just repeated what he told me.... :)
There is a difference.....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[guillermo taboada]

no, i did not say that.....gm. John villasin the son of gm. Atty. Jose villasin said that, i just repeated what he told me.... :)
there is a difference.....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

mr jan,

its okey now. Hope you practice more and good at it. And in one month post it again in you tube and see how you progress your trainning. Tell john i say hello.

Gm bobby taboada

[manhattan1]

mr jan,

its okey now. Hope you practice more and good at it. And in one month post it again in you tube and see how you progress your trainning. Tell john i say hello.

Gm bobby taboada

I will tell him this afternon, when i go and train with him again.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[MacJ_007]

Manhattan, why are you stirring the water? It's none of your business. Dont start any politics. Stay away from family feuds. Just improve your skill you have a long ways to go. Thanks.

[manhattan1]

Manhattan, why are you stirring the water? It's none of your business. Dont start any politics. Stay away from family feuds. Just improve your skill you have a long ways to go. Thanks.

I dont stir any waters, i am just being honest nothing else.....There is a big difference...
I just repeated what GM. John told to me.....

What do you know about my skills, are you within the Villasin System?
Can you see where i am within his system?

Besides what do you really know about me, do know my Martial Arts background?
If not let me tell you, i have been within Martial Arts for 14 years and have background within styles like Bujinkan, Ju-Jutsu, Kick-Boxing, Karate and hold a Master 1 degree Black Belt within the Dacayana System (FMA)...
I can tell you a lot of my background helps me with my training within new styles... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[MacJ_007]

I dont stir any waters, i am just being honest nothing else.....There is a big difference...
I just repeated what GM. John told to me.....

What do you know about my skills, are you within the Villasin System?
Can you see where i am within his system?

Besides what do you really know about me, do know my Martial Arts background?
If not let me tell you, i have been within Martial Arts for 14 years and have background within styles like Bujinkan, Ju-Jutsu, Kick-Boxing, Karate and hold a Master 1 degree Black Belt within the Dacayana System (FMA)...
I can tell you a lot of my background helps me with my training within new styles... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

If what you are showing in your video with GM Villasin is your current skills, then we can pretty much tell your standing. If you truly understand Balintawak, then you should know your belts or ranks does not matter to us. Thanks.

[manhattan1]

If what you are showing in your video with GM Villasin is your current skills, then we can pretty much tell your standing. If you truly understand Balintawak, then you should know your belts or ranks does not matter to us. Thanks.

You do know we are training different from you right?
I cant really see how you can say like above without knowing our style (Villasin Balintawak) or having tried to train with me....

But maybe the reason i dont jugde people from a few sec. of youtube clips is that i have been within MA for 14 years and knows there can be more to it then the camera shows... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Robert Klampfer]

Jan:

Other people are trying to be subtle and get the point across to you but, it doesn't seem to be working so, I'm going to use plain language.

There are family issues amongst the sons of the late Mr. Jose Villasin (RIP). I hope you realize that Bobby Taboada knows the Villasin family and knew them before you were even born. He knew both John and Ver when they were just little boys. You seem to disregard that fact and continue as though you have some secret knowledge that he does not just because you train in Cebu. You weren't in Cebu 40 years ago. Bobby was trying to be subtle and polite by suggesting that you contact Ver Villasin yourself rather than you continuing to publicly talk about a subject on which you are incorrect. You're beginning to embarass yourself and your instructor, whether you realize it or not. The Balintawak community is very small and although not many of us participate here on FMA Talk, many do read what goes on here.

I hope that you would take Bobby's advice and gather more information if you're so interested in the Villasin family relationships. Whatever you find, please keep it to yourself. It's extremely bad manners to discuss the specifics of family issues in a public venue.

Robert

[manhattan1]

Jan:

Other people are trying to be subtle and get the point across to you but, it doesn't seem to be working so, I'm going to use plain language.

There are family issues amongst the sons of the late Mr. Jose Villasin (RIP). I hope you realize that Bobby Taboada knows the Villasin family and knew them before you were even born. He knew both John and Ver when they were just little boys. You seem to disregard that fact and continue as though you have some secret knowledge that he does not just because you train in Cebu. You weren't in Cebu 40 years ago. Bobby was trying to be subtle and polite by suggesting that you contact Ver Villasin yourself rather than you continuing to publicly talk about a subject on which you are incorrect. You're beginning to embarass yourself and your instructor, whether you realize it or not. The Balintawak community is very small and although not many of us participate here on FMA Talk, many do read what goes on here.

I hope that you would take Bobby's advice and gather more information if you're so interested in the Villasin family relationships. Whatever you find, please keep it to yourself. It's extremely bad manners to discuss the specifics of family issues in a public venue.

Robert

First of lets get something clear its more then 'just' family matter, when a guy cheats the public for money..... :)

What i said above i got directly from GM. John Villasin, so unless you think he lies its true....

PS. IF you think GM. John lies i will be happy to put you in touch with him...

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Robert Klampfer]

First of lets get something clear its more then 'just' family matter, when a guy cheats the public for money.....

So, there was an agenda behind the initial post after all. There usually is in that type of post. I'm glad to finally have it out in the open, although I'm not going to address it at all.


What i said above i got directly from GM. John Villasin, so unless you think he lies its true....

It doesn't matter what I think. You believe in what you do and in your instructor. That's good. Just don't presume that you're the only one "in the know".


PS. IF you think GM. John lies i will be happy to put you in touch with him...

Please don't think to try to intimidate me by offering to "put me in touch with him". A) It doesn't work and B) It's rude. I post here using my real name and I put nothing here that I wouldn't say to someone if we were in the same room together. I have no argument with John Villasin so, please don't try to make it out as if I do.

My caution to you, again, is that the Balintawak community is small. You won't make any friends and can make more than your share of enemies by bashing people in public.

Robert

[MacJ_007]

You do know we are training different from you right?
I cant really see how you can say like above without knowing our style (Villasin Balintawak) or having tried to train with me....

But maybe the reason i dont jugde people from a few sec. of youtube clips is that i have been within MA for 14 years and knows there can be more to it then the camera shows... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

Let me get this straight, I have nothing against your style (Villasin Balintawak), I was merely commenting on your skill level in Balintawak. And what is wrong with telling you to improve your skills? Everybody can see it clearly that you just barely studied the art in the video. And if you dont admit that you're just a beginner in the art, then that is your right. But like Robert said, the Balintawak community is small and can pretty much differentiate and analyze your level base upon your video.

I dont care about your previous background, the fact that the Balintawak mindset is to never underestimate anybody and the assumption of your opponent is a skilled fighter, dissipates that fact. Thanks.

[guillermo taboada]

First of lets get something clear its more then 'just' family matter, when a guy cheats the public for money..... :)

I TEACH PEOPLE AND CHARGE THEM, THAT IS HOW I MAKE MY INCOME.
PLEASE DONT ADDRESS IT TO THE PUBLIC, THEY ARE NOT DAMMED TO PAY THIER MONEY WITH NOTHING. I HOPE YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THE VICTIM. TEACHING FOR FREE MEANS NOTHING FOR THEM, OTHERWISE TEACHING YOUR CLOSE FRIEND OR A FAMILY IS OKEY. THANK YOU MR JAN.
PS. YOUR LAST VIDEO CLIP IS GETTING BETTER, PLEASE PUT SOME NEXT WEEK AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW IF YOU CAN MAKE IT TO THE NEXT LOWER BASICS. KEEP PRACTICING.

GMBT

What i said above i got directly from GM. John Villasin, so unless you think he lies its true....

PS. IF you think GM. John lies i will be happy to put you in touch with him...

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)
.

[manhattan1]

I TEACH PEOPLE AND CHARGE THEM, THAT IS HOW I MAKE MY INCOME.
PLEASE DONT ADDRESS IT TO THE PUBLIC, THEY ARE NOT DAMMED TO PAY THIER MONEY WITH NOTHING. I HOPE YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THE VICTIM. TEACHING FOR FREE MEANS NOTHING FOR THEM, OTHERWISE TEACHING YOUR CLOSE FRIEND OR A FAMILY IS OKEY. THANK YOU MR JAN.
PS. YOUR LAST VIDEO CLIP IS GETTING BETTER, PLEASE PUT SOME NEXT WEEK AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW IF YOU CAN MAKE IT TO THE NEXT LOWER BASICS. KEEP PRACTICING..

You know thats twisting it.... :)
That you teach for money and are honest is not the same as making false claims to the public is it....?
By the way, what do you know of the Villasin style, do you know his style and the "grouping system"? Not from what i hear, so let me ask you do GM. John Villasin tell your students where they are within your system?
No, its a sign of no respect and as a Grandmaster you should in my eyes know better... :)



Let me get this straight, I have nothing against your style (Villasin Balintawak), I was merely commenting on your skill level in Balintawak. And what is wrong with telling you to improve your skills? Everybody can see it clearly that you just barely studied the art in the video. And if you dont admit that you're just a beginner in the art, then that is your right. But like Robert said, the Balintawak community is small and can pretty much differentiate and analyze your level base upon your video.

I dont care about your previous background, the fact that the Balintawak mindset is to never underestimate anybody and the assumption of your opponent is a skilled fighter, dissipates that fact. Thanks.


Well i think anyone who would claim they know a other style or Martial Artist from a few sec. of video clips is talking like a beginner, or someone who just want to pick on others....? :)



So, there was an agenda behind the initial post after all. There usually is in that type of post. I'm glad to finally have it out in the open, although I'm not going to address it at all.

It doesn't matter what I think. You believe in what you do and in your instructor. That's good. Just don't presume that you're the only one "in the know".

Please don't think to try to intimidate me by offering to "put me in touch with him". A) It doesn't work and B) It's rude. I post here using my real name and I put nothing here that I wouldn't say to someone if we were in the same room together. I have no argument with John Villasin so, please don't try to make it out as if I do.

My caution to you, again, is that the Balintawak community is small. You won't make any friends and can make more than your share of enemies by bashing people in public.


I cant see why you would take that as i was trying to intimidate you, i was purely telling you that you could confirm what i am saying with him, nothing else.... :)

I dont claim to be the one who knows, but i do claim GM. John Villasin knows...

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[guillermo taboada]

You know thats twisting it.... :)
That you teach for money and are honest is not the same as making false claims to the public is it....?
By the way, what do you know of the Villasin style, do you know his style and the "grouping system"? Not from what i hear, so let me ask you do GM. John Villasin tell your students where they are within your system?
No, its a sign of no respect and as a Grandmaster you should in my eyes know better... :)

HELLO MR JAN,

I REALLY DONT KNOW GGM JOSE VILLASINS GROUPING SYSTEM, IS JUST HAPPENED THAT HE TEACH ME MOST EVERY NIGHT FOR A LONG LONG YEARS IN OUR BALINTAWAK INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL. ALSO IT HAPPENS THAT HE IS THE GOD FATHER OF THE CHRISTENING OF MY SON IN THE PHILIPPINES. ALSO IS JUST HAPPENED THAT WE ARE A DRINGKING BODIES FOR ANOTHER LONG LONG YEARS. MAYBE HE FORGET TO TEACH ME THE GROUPING SYSTEM, I AM VERY SORRY TO TELL YOU THAT I DONT KNOW THE VILLASINS GROUPPING METHODS. I REMEMBER, GGM VILLASIN NEEDED HELP FOR A BIG FIGHT IN MANDAUE CITY, I ALWAYS VOLUNTEER TO FIGHT AND ALSO WITH OUR BALINTAWAK CLAN, AND WE ARE ALWAYS THERE FOR HIM. AND NOW YOU TELLING ME THAT I DONT KNOW THE VILLASINS. IF I AM THERE, I WILL TEACH YOU FOR FREE IF, YOU ACCEPT ME AS YOUR FRIEND. I WISH YOU STILL IN THE PHILIPPINES TIL NOVEMBER, I WILL BE THERE FOR A VACATION MAYBE SOONER.



Well i think anyone who would claim they know a other style or Martial Artist from a few sec. of video clips is talking like a beginner, or someone who just want to pick on others....? :)



I cant see why you would take that as i was trying to intimidate you, i was purely telling you that you could confirm what i am saying with him, nothing else.... :)

I dont claim to be the one who knows, but i do claim GM. John Villasin knows...

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)
.

[manhattan1]

HELLO MR JAN,

I REALLY DONT KNOW GGM JOSE VILLASINS GROUPING SYSTEM, IS JUST HAPPENED THAT HE TEACH ME MOST EVERY NIGHT FOR A LONG LONG YEARS IN OUR BALINTAWAK INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL. ALSO IT HAPPENS THAT HE IS THE GOD FATHER OF THE CHRISTENING OF MY SON IN THE PHILIPPINES. ALSO IS JUST HAPPENED THAT WE ARE A DRINGKING BODIES FOR ANOTHER LONG LONG YEARS. MAYBE HE FORGET TO TEACH ME THE GROUPING SYSTEM, I AM VERY SORRY TO TELL YOU THAT I DONT KNOW THE VILLASINS GROUPPING METHODS. I REMEMBER, GGM VILLASIN NEEDED HELP FOR A BIG FIGHT IN MANDAUE CITY, I ALWAYS VOLUNTEER TO FIGHT AND ALSO WITH OUR BALINTAWAK CLAN, AND WE ARE ALWAYS THERE FOR HIM. AND NOW YOU TELLING ME THAT I DONT KNOW THE VILLASINS. IF I AM THERE, I WILL TEACH YOU FOR FREE IF, YOU ACCEPT ME AS YOUR FRIEND. I WISH YOU STILL IN THE PHILIPPINES TIL NOVEMBER, I WILL BE THERE FOR A VACATION MAYBE SOONER.

Okay, i will still be here and would be happy to meet you anytime as friend.... :)
I never said you did not know the Villasins either, i only repeated what GM. John Villasin told me nothing else and i am sure he would be happy to tell you the same if you asked him (so its not just me you got it from).....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Robert Klampfer]

By the way, what do you know of the Villasin style, do you know his style and the "grouping system"? Not from what i hear...

What does Bobby Taboada know of the "Villasin style" and the grouping system!? Are you serious?! Do you know anything of the history of Balintawak, besides what you're allegedly told by John Villasin? Do yourself a favor and run a few searches on Google or something. It sounds like you're getting some really bad information from somewhere.

Robert

[manhattan1]

What does Bobby Taboada know of the "Villasin style" and the grouping system!? Are you serious?! Do you know anything of the history of Balintawak, besides what you're allegedly told by John Villasin? Do yourself a favor and run a few searches on Google or something. It sounds like you're getting some really bad information from somewhere.

Robert

Try to read what GM. Bobby Taboada him self writes again, before you say something thats not true:



HELLO MR JAN,

I REALLY DONT KNOW GGM JOSE VILLASINS GROUPING SYSTEM, IS JUST HAPPENED THAT HE TEACH ME MOST EVERY NIGHT FOR A LONG LONG YEARS IN OUR BALINTAWAK INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL. ALSO IT HAPPENS THAT HE IS THE GOD FATHER OF THE CHRISTENING OF MY SON IN THE PHILIPPINES. ALSO IS JUST HAPPENED THAT WE ARE A DRINGKING BODIES FOR ANOTHER LONG LONG YEARS. MAYBE HE FORGET TO TEACH ME THE GROUPING SYSTEM, I AM VERY SORRY TO TELL YOU THAT I DONT KNOW THE VILLASINS GROUPPING METHODS.

I was right on the money about GM. Bobby Taboada not knowing the Villasin Balintawak Grouping system, so dont you tell me its bad information..... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Robert Klampfer]

Try to read what GM. Bobby Taboada him self writes again, before you say something thats not true:

I was right on the money about GM. Bobby Taboada not knowing the Villasin Balintawak Grouping system, so dont you tell me its bad information

Apparently you didn't pick up on the sarcasm in his post. I talked with him yesterday. So, I am telling you it's bad information.

Robert

[du212]

Mr. Jensen,

I think a problem here, at least that I find when reading your post, is that you are speaking on behalf of your teacher. You are saying these are his words and not yours, and so be it if thats true -however - Are you authorized to speak on your teacher's behalf and does your teacher know you are repeating what he may have told you in a public forum?

This is a forum for knowledge sharing and in that spirit I am curious, since you bring it up, if you believe that the grouping system you are learning is different from the groupings other balintawak players have learned? If you do, do you mind sharing what you see those differences to be ?


-SAL

[necopa74]

HI Board....

I guess the unreasonable postings from Jan are coming from a lack of information or knowledge.
He has no ideas from the linage of the system and only a smal overview in general.
When u take a look at his videos, u can obviously see that he is in a really early stage in mastering or playing the art...
So, please don't overestimate his postings and try to give him some hints :)

Peace and greetings!

Thorsten

[manhattan1]

Apparently you didn't pick up on the sarcasm in his post. I talked with him yesterday. So, I am telling you it's bad information.

Robert

Why dont you get him to make a public statement in here, that he knows the complete Villasin Balintawak with "grouping system" and everything then?

So far what i got is only above and it says he does not know it, its very hard to see if thats sarcasm....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[manhattan1]

Mr. Jensen,

I think a problem here, at least that I find when reading your post, is that you are speaking on behalf of your teacher. You are saying these are his words and not yours, and so be it if thats true -however - Are you authorized to speak on your teacher's behalf and does your teacher know you are repeating what he may have told you in a public forum?

This is a forum for knowledge sharing and in that spirit I am curious, since you bring it up, if you believe that the grouping system you are learning is different from the groupings other balintawak players have learned? If you do, do you mind sharing what you see those differences to be ?


-SAL

Hi Sal,

Thanks for your replay... :)
I am not speaking for my teacher (GM. John Villasin) or Villasin Balintawak (only GM. John can do that), but he said to me just be honest about these things, i can never speak for him......i can only repeat the things he told me, nothing else.... :)

Yes, i think our "grouping system" is different from other Balintawak styles and its one of the things GM. John Villasin's farther (GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin) was know for, making this special "grouping system", but GM. John has told me not to explain about this "grouping system" online and i will of course respect this.... ;)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[manhattan1]

HI Board....

I guess the unreasonable postings from Jan are coming from a lack of information or knowledge.
He has no ideas from the linage of the system and only a smal overview in general.
When u take a look at his videos, u can obviously see that he is in a really early stage in mastering or playing the art...
So, please don't overestimate his postings and try to give him some hints :)

Peace and greetings!

Thorsten

I am not going to keep answering those "cheap shots", that kind of remarks says more about you, then me.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[arnisador]

Please, keep the conversation polite and professional.

-Arnisador
-FMAT Admin

[Robert Klampfer]

Yes, i think our "grouping system" is different from other Balintawak styles and its one of the things GM. John Villasin's farther (GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin) was know for, making this special "grouping system", but GM. John has told me not to explain about this "grouping system" online and i will of course respect this....

Jan:

The grouping system is no secret. If it's supposed to be a secret, why is it on YouTube?

Taboada, Gaabucayan, Elizar, Velez, Roma... any of these names sound familiar? They all teach the "grouped" method of Balintawak.

Robert

P.S. - Sal and Thorsten, good to see you both here! :cheers:

[Robert Klampfer]

Why dont you get him to make a public statement in here...

Unless he specifically asks my opinion, I don't presume to tell Bobby Taboada what to do. Ever.

Robert

[manhattan1]

Jan:

The grouping system is no secret. If it's supposed to be a secret, why is it on YouTube?

Taboada, Gaabucayan, Elizar, Velez, Roma... any of these names sound familiar? They all teach the "grouped" method of Balintawak.

Robert

P.S. - Sal and Thorsten, good to see you both here! :cheers:

I am not saying they dont teach a Balintawak Grouping System, i am saying they dont teach the Villasin Balintawak Grouping System.....There is a difference... :)

Well, if you think the complete Villasin Balintawak grouping system is online on youtube, why dont you show me a link to a video with it then?



Unless he specifically asks my opinion, I don't presume to tell Bobby Taboada what to do. Ever.

Robert

Well, it just seems strange......When he says to me, that he does not know the Villasin Balintawak Grouping System.....Why do i have to hear it only from you if its sarcasm?

[du212]

Hey Robert, Cheers !
----------------------
Manhattan1 wrote:
"I am not saying they dont teach a Balintawak Grouping System, i am saying they dont teach the Villasin Balintawak Grouping System.....There is a difference..."

Hi Jan,

Regarding your quote above...I also do not know the 'Villasin Balintawak Grouping System', as your teacher teaches it to you, (also re: Robert and GM Taboada posts) so please, lets let those threads drop.....

Lots of people have different interpretations and approaches to how they play the balintawak game. Just look at the other Balintawak videos (Atillo and Inosanto) or websites. Atillo's methods are slightly different from Tabimina which are slightly different from Teovel....etcetc. Once a balintawak student learns the basics, they can begin to apply their own interpretations and make it their own. In fact, one GM has a specific requirement for his students, at a more advanced level, to create and demonstrate new distinct moves of their own...

So your statement, for me, is more of a historic curiosity than a technical one (though that too would have been interesting) since the beginnings of this thread itself, follow upon whether the Grouping Systems, as most of us know them, originated from Atty. Jose Villasin or ,as Soncen posted,whether it was Teofilo Velez.

So when you state that the 'Villasin Balintawak Grouping System' is different from the 'Balintawak Grouping Systems' most have learned, it appears you may? be contradicting the historic attribution of Atty. Jose Villasin with the Grouping Methods ?? Which is why I originally asked what you thought those difference might be..... Its totally reasonable that your teacher may not want his interpretations or teaching method(s) publicized, thats his perogative, but I am still curious if there is a historic answer as to why Grouping Methods might be different ?

If you or your teacher are not able to discuss this topic further, thats fine too, but if so we should probably let this thread die then.

But thanks for and keep posting the videos you have on your website, its always great to see other practitioners doing their thing! :)

Thanks, SAL

[manhattan1]

Hey Robert, Cheers !
----------------------
Manhattan1 wrote:
"I am not saying they dont teach a Balintawak Grouping System, i am saying they dont teach the Villasin Balintawak Grouping System.....There is a difference..."

Hi Jan,

Regarding your quote above...I also do not know the 'Villasin Balintawak Grouping System', as your teacher teaches it to you, (also re: Robert and GM Taboada posts) so please, lets let those threads drop.....

Lots of people have different interpretations and approaches to how they play the balintawak game. Just look at the other Balintawak videos (Atillo and Inosanto) or websites. Atillo's methods are slightly different from Tabimina which are slightly different from Teovel....etcetc. Once a balintawak student learns the basics, they can begin to apply their own interpretations and make it their own. In fact, one GM has a specific requirement for his students, at a more advanced level, to create and demonstrate new distinct moves of their own...

So your statement, for me, is more of a historic curiosity than a technical one (though that too would have been interesting) since the beginnings of this thread itself, follow upon whether the Grouping Systems, as most of us know them, originated from Atty. Jose Villasin or ,as Soncen posted,whether it was Teofilo Velez.

So when you state that the 'Villasin Balintawak Grouping System' is different from the 'Balintawak Grouping Systems' most have learned, it appears you may? be contradicting the historic attribution of Atty. Jose Villasin with the Grouping Methods ?? Which is why I originally asked what you thought those difference might be..... Its totally reasonable that your teacher may not want his interpretations or teaching method(s) publicized, thats his perogative, but I am still curious if there is a historic answer as to why Grouping Methods might be different ?

If you or your teacher are not able to discuss this topic further, thats fine too, but if so we should probably let this thread die then.

But thanks for and keep posting the videos you have on your website, its always great to see other practitioners doing their thing! :)

Thanks, SAL

Hi Sal,

Thanks for your post.....
Well, first of i started to comment in this post on the fact that GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin, since the one making the post claimed that GM. Ver Villasin was the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin...
Now i did this because GM. John Villasin him self, told me that GM. Ver Villasin is his cousin and not the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin.

Then the talk some how went from that and to the "Villasin Grouping System" and again all i can say is what i did hear from GM. John Villasin that it is different, he does not like me to explain to much about this online........

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Pike]

Hi Sal,

Well, first of i started to comment

Now i did this because

, told me that GM.

again all i can say is what i did hear from

he does not like me to explain

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen

The thread is going in circles (ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz)

After watching this thread run into this state after the good info prior to this needless tit for tat.................

I feel the need to post

All I see is ''me'' or ''I'' in your statements jan this tells us all a lot about you

We dont want to know who said what, unless it has interest of training etc

We want to know what jan knows about Balintawak training?

Give us Info of your training, your learning, your growth in Balintawak

Also ''please please try to be good example'',
because at present you are tit for tat, like a spoilt kid who thinks he knows best (my opinion)

Realise the guys on this forum have been training in Balintawak for a very long time and I for one know,
they know what there talking about....http://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Thanks in advance

Pike

ps. perhaps my post may fuel the fire, but I will sleep well through ithttp://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[manhattan1]

The thread is going in circles (ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz)

After watching this thread run into this state after the good info prior to this needless tit for tat.................

I feel the need to post

All I see is ''me'' or ''I'' in your statements jan this tells us all a lot about you

We dont want to know who said what, unless it has interest of training etc

We want to know what jan knows about Balintawak training?

Give us Info of your training, your learning, your growth in Balintawak

Also ''please please try to be good example'',
because at present you are tit for tat, like a spoilt kid who thinks he knows best (my opinion)

Realise the guys on this forum have been training in Balintawak for a very long time and I for one know,
they know what there talking about....http://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Thanks in advance

Pike

ps. perhaps my post may fuel the fire, but I will sleep well through ithttp://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Well it has it has "interest of training", since it seems some people claim to know and use the Villasin Balintawak style and "the Villasin Grouping System", when in fact they do not know it.....According to the Grandmaster within Villasin Balintawak, GM. John Villasin....

Yes, i have used a lot of "i" and "me" in my posts, but i can try to ask GM. John Villasin if he likes to come with a online statement, if that would be better?

My training and learning within the Villasin Balintawak system, i will still not talk about online.... ;)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[necopa74]

Well it has it has "interest of training", since it seems some people claim to know and use the Villasin Balintawak style and "the Villasin Grouping System", when in fact they do not know it.....According to the Grandmaster within Villasin Balintawak, GM. John Villasin....

Yes, i have used a lot of "i" and "me" in my posts, but i can try to ask GM. John Villasin if he likes to come with a online statement, if that would be better?

My training and learning within the Villasin Balintawak system, i will still not talk about online.... ;)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

Hi Jan,

i think you should not bother your GM for giving an online statement...
Time is precious, u should use the time with him for training.
Propably he would give us informations that we already know... The grouped method is no secret. I mean, till u reached a certain level it is an nothing mystic or secret... and u are still caught in the basics. There might be some differences in the different linages. But there is something for sure, we all start with the twelve points, in order, radom and so on....then we add other things.... and in higher levels there are things, that shud not be taught to not reliable persons and to be in that circle, it takes decades of training and faith in the student...
So, don't make ur training bigger than it is!
Be humble and enjoy the little steps of progress u have, when u are addicted to Balintawak and u really put effort into the art you someday will smile when you read your statements...
You uploaded some videos again...
I see that your GM is feeding u with new attacks... Thats good, but ur strikes are still no strikes.... you hold ur stick in front of you and John is striking and you defend..... Okay, Defense first, but try to give more power to your "answer". It still don't looks exact and accurate... Your footwork seems senseless to me.... Why waste energy, when u don't make any advantage with ur steps...

I am training the art for more than a decade and i still only have a small overview of what is waiting for me...But thats good.... I am lucky to have good teachers and students who force me to be better....
And i would never say that i know a whole system!!!!

Regards
Thorsten

[manhattan1]

Hi Jan,

i think you should not bother your GM for giving an online statement...
Time is precious, u should use the time with him for training.
Propably he would give us informations that we already know... The grouped method is no secret. I mean, till u reached a certain level it is an nothing mystic or secret... and u are still caught in the basics. There might be some differences in the different linages. But there is something for sure, we all start with the twelve points, in order, radom and so on....then we add other things.... and in higher levels there are things, that shud not be taught to not reliable persons and to be in that circle, it takes decades of training and faith in the student...
So, don't make ur training bigger than it is!
Be humble and enjoy the little steps of progress u have, when u are addicted to Balintawak and u really put effort into the art you someday will smile when you read your statements...
You uploaded some videos again...
I see that your GM is feeding u with new attacks... Thats good, but ur strikes are still no strikes.... you hold ur stick in front of you and John is striking and you defend..... Okay, Defense first, but try to give more power to your "answer". It still don't looks exact and accurate... Your footwork seems senseless to me.... Why waste energy, when u don't make any advantage with ur steps...

I am training the art for more than a decade and i still only have a small overview of what is waiting for me...But thats good.... I am lucky to have good teachers and students who force me to be better....
And i would never say that i know a whole system!!!!

Regards
Thorsten

Since i just repeated what GM. John Villasin told me, then i think if he came with a statement it would just confirm what i said above.... :)

The way you try to describe Villasin Balintawak just shows me how little of our system (Villasin Balintawak) you understand. But i am still not going to try to explain the difference online.....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Soncen]

I am sorry to correct you, but GM. John Villasin (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/Villasin_Balintawak_Video_Clips_3) and GM. Ver. Villasin is cousins, only GM. John Villasin (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/Villasin_Balintawak_Video_Clips_2) is the son of late GM. Atty. Jose Villasin (http://www.visayanmartialarts.com/josevillasen.htm), not GM. Ver. Villasin....
I know this, because i am also a student of GM. John Villasin (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/Villasin_Balintawak_Video_Clips%20) and he told me that... :)

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk
Ver a cousin to John is also possible because they do not share the same mother, but they are brother because they share the same father. I know this because I am a Cebuano like both of them and my teacher know them very well by heart like Bobby did.
-Wilson

[manhattan1]

Ver a cousin to John is also possible because they do not share the same mother, but they are brother because they share the same father. I know this because I am a Cebuano like both of them and my teacher know them very well by heart like Bobby did.
-Wilson

GM. John Villasin said to me, that if you look at the Birth Certificate of GM. Ver Villasin then his farther is not GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin....
GM. John Villasin is very clear about the fact the GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin, he said it to me many times.... :)

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Soncen]

GM. John Villasin said to me, that if you look at the Birth Certificate of GM. Ver Villasin then his farther is not GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin....
GM. John Villasin is very clear about the fact the GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin, he said it to me many times.... :)

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)
Then Ver Villasin must know his father in his birth certificate was Atty Jose Villasin as he claimed it to be. I think he is more believable because he had the paper as evidence and John did not tell you the name of the father in Ver's birth certificate. Ver has a brother who once had a residence in Mandaue City, he would always be talking about his father Atty. Jose Villasin and his brother ver Villasin in their martial art skill.

-Wilson

[Soncen]

Well it has it has "interest of training", since it seems some people claim to know and use the Villasin Balintawak style and "the Villasin Grouping System", when in fact they do not know it.....According to the Grandmaster within Villasin Balintawak, GM. John Villasin....

Yes, i have used a lot of "i" and "me" in my posts, but i can try to ask GM. John Villasin if he likes to come with a online statement, if that would be better?

My training and learning within the Villasin Balintawak system, i will still not talk about online.... ;)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

Atty. Villasin’s children (Ver & John) so far did not display any grouping applications that we use to know in the Velez lineage in their videos. I’m not expecting it, because they might be developing their own kind of grouping system and practice it only in secret away from the eyes of the public and totally they do not have the knowledge of the Velez system of grouping probably had not been taught by their father the way Mr. Velez had taught it to his followers.

Atty. Villasin cannot use a method of teaching that he did not practiced although the method is very familiar to him being honored as the innovator. Atty. Villasin did not actually practiced the grouping method although he adapted and made it as his own (accepting only the honor given to him from his very popular student), because he is not comfortable in learning from his own student (Mr. Velez), being the teacher himself with pride and honor.

That is why when he is invited to demonstrate in private of the new innovation he would always delegate the task to Mr. Velez because he cannot conduct it by himself and it is always Bobby who will volunteer to be the dummy of Mr. Velez although his son Chito and my teacher Teofilo Roma would also be performing in the occasion. Atty. Villasin will only present some good techniques of his own most of the time with Chito Velez as his dummy.

Students of Atty. Villasin continued to practice the way that he had taught to them adding with some self-innovations. Villasin Balintawak and the Teovel Balintawak might have the same effect in the actual combat fighting, but in the imparting of the skill there is a big difference and I would say that the public can easily notice the mastery of the Teovel Balintawak teachers in the application of the grouping system in their demonstrations in the videos.

-Wilson

[manhattan1]

Then Ver Villasin must know his father in his birth certificate was Atty Jose Villasin as he claimed it to be. I think he is more believable because he had the paper as evidence and John did not tell you the name of the father in Ver's birth certificate. Ver has a brother who once had a residence in Mandaue City, he would always be talking about his father Atty. Jose Villasin and his brother ver Villasin in their martial art skill.

-Wilson

Saying GM. John Villasin is less believable, thats not true....GM. John Villasin has showed me his Birth Certificate and is happy to show it to anybody who wants to see it....Do you think GM. Ver Villasin is that?

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[manhattan1]

Atty. Villasin’s children (Ver & John) so far did not display any grouping applications that we use to know in the Velez lineage in their videos. I’m not expecting it, because they might be developing their own kind of grouping system and practice it only in secret away from the eyes of the public and totally they do not have the knowledge of the Velez system of grouping probably had not been taught by their father the way Mr. Velez had taught it to his followers.

Atty. Villasin cannot use a method of teaching that he did not practiced although the method is very familiar to him being honored as the innovator. Atty. Villasin did not actually practiced the grouping method although he adapted and made it as his own (accepting only the honor given to him from his very popular student), because he is not comfortable in learning from his own student (Mr. Velez), being the teacher himself with pride and honor.

That is why when he is invited to demonstrate in private of the new innovation he would always delegate the task to Mr. Velez because he cannot conduct it by himself and it is always Bobby who will volunteer to be the dummy of Mr. Velez although his son Chito and my teacher Teofilo Roma would also be performing in the occasion. Atty. Villasin will only present some good techniques of his own most of the time with Chito Velez as his dummy.

Students of Atty. Villasin continued to practice the way that he had taught to them adding with some self-innovations. Villasin Balintawak and the Teovel Balintawak might have the same effect in the actual combat fighting, but in the imparting of the skill there is a big difference and I would say that the public can easily notice the mastery of the Teovel Balintawak teachers in the application of the grouping system in their demonstrations in the videos.

-Wilson

Well, i know that GM. John Villasin does use the "Villasin Grouping System" and as it was taught to him by his farther GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin, the founder of the Villasin Grouping system (not Velez)....

I dont really think you can say either, what the difference is between to two styles without also having tried Villasin Balintawak.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[fangjian]

Is this the 'Villasin Grouping System' ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Qc1bHGi8I&feature=channel_page

[manhattan1]

Is this the 'Villasin Grouping System' ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Qc1bHGi8I&feature=channel_page

Thats one of the videos i did put online and no we never did show the entire "Villasin Balintawak Grouping System" in any of these videos....... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[malcolmk]

Quote:Originally Posted by fangjian View Post Is this the 'Villasin Grouping System' ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Qc1...e=channel_page . Sorry can't get the quote function figured out . . Looks like nothing new to me, pretty standard approach to grouping just rather untidy looking. Why are you using the Dacayana longer sticks when you are training balintawak which is basically a close range system? I also think that things are getting a bit hung up on what grouping system is taught by whom, I know that there are smal differences in the groupings between for instance Teovels, Nickelstick and the grouping I teach myself but that is simply because each instructor adapts ( indeed must adapt) the system to him / her self although the changes may be very small. I expect that all the balintawak factions also have an advanced form of the grouping system ( as I do myself ) that is not on general display for all to see. But basically balintawak is balintawak, no secret we are all supposed to be brothers so lets act like it!

[manhattan1]

Quote:Originally Posted by fangjian View Post Is this the 'Villasin Grouping System' ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Qc1...e=channel_page . Sorry can't get the quote function figured out . . Looks like nothing new to me, pretty standard approach to grouping just rather untidy looking. Why are you using the Dacayana longer sticks when you are training balintawak which is basically a close range system? I also think that things are getting a bit hung up on what grouping system is taught by whom, I know that there are smal differences in the groupings between for instance Teovels, Nickelstick and the grouping I teach myself but that is simply because each instructor adapts ( indeed must adapt) the system to him / her self although the changes may be very small. I expect that all the balintawak factions also have an advanced form of the grouping system ( as I do myself ) that is not on general display for all to see. But basically balintawak is balintawak, no secret we are all supposed to be brothers so lets act like it!

Just because Teovels, Nickelstick and other Balintawak styles has similar "Grouping System", that does not mean that Villasin Balintawak also has and i really dont think you can say it has without trying our style first.... :)
I have so far known about several things that are different besides just the "Grouping System", but if you read above this was not only about the "Grouping System"....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[arnisador]

Please, keep the conversation polite and professional.

-Arnisador
-FMAT Admin

[Soncen]

Saying GM. John Villasin is less believable, thats not true....GM. John Villasin has showed me his Birth Certificate and is happy to show it to anybody who wants to see it....Do you think GM. Ver Villasin is that?

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

Ver was telling the entire world that he is the son of the late Atty. Jose Villasin. Nobody disputed on John’s identity as also the son of Atty. Villasin. I think Ver would also be happy to show his birth certificate to anybody who wants to see it.
-Wilson

[Soncen]

Well, i know that GM. John Villasin does use the "Villasin Grouping System" and as it was taught to him by his farther GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin, the founder of the Villasin Grouping system (not Velez)....

I dont really think you can say either, what the difference is between to two styles without also having tried Villasin Balintawak.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

It would also be possible that John’s grouping had the same sequence with the grouping method of Mr. Velez that is if Atty. Villasin had totally practiced it when it was introduce to him (by Mr. Velez). But I heard he did not practice it the way Mr. Velez did.
-Wilson

[manhattan1]

Ver was telling the entire world that he is the son of the late Atty. Jose Villasin. Nobody disputed on John’s identity as also the son of Atty. Villasin. I think Ver would also be happy to show his birth certificate to anybody who wants to see it.
-Wilson

I know GM. John Villasin wants to put his Birth Certificate online, so if GM. Ver Villasin is happy to show his Birth Certificate, why dont you ask him to do the same?

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[manhattan1]

It would also be possible that John’s grouping had the same sequence with the grouping method of Mr. Velez that is if Atty. Villasin had totally practiced it when it was introduce to him (by Mr. Velez). But I heard he did not practice it the way Mr. Velez did.
-Wilson

The Villasin Balintawak grouping system was made by GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin and not introduce to him by Mr. Velez..... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Soncen]

I know GM. John Villasin wants to put his Birth Certificate online, so if GM. Ver Villasin is happy to show his Birth Certificate, why dont you ask him to do the same?

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk)
I already believed in him. Let those who do not believe to ask him!
-Wilson

[Soncen]

The Villasin Balintawak grouping system was made by GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin and not introduce to him by Mr. Velez..... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)
The innovator of the grouping system was Mr. Velez but the honor was given to Atty Villasin. If there is a Villasin Balintawak grouping system separate from the original, then I think he formulated his own.
-Wilson

[manhattan1]

I already believed in him. Let those who do not believe to ask him!
-Wilson

The fact the you just belive in him without any proof at all, when GM. John Villasin says that GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of late GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin is up to you..... :)
That does not change the fact that GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of late GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin and that you want to belive in a false claim rather then ask for proof like a Birth Certificate, then go ahead.... :)

But if thats you attitude with everything, i can imagine there would be a lot of things you would get wrong..... ;)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[manhattan1]

The innovator of the grouping system was Mr. Velez but the honor was given to Atty Villasin. If there is a Villasin Balintawak grouping system separate from the original, then I think he formulated his own.
-Wilson

Just like you get that wrong also.... ;)
Its still GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin who made the "grouping system".....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Robert Klampfer]

Wilson:

You're still living in Cebu, yes? Perhaps you should go to the park while they're practicing and discuss the matter in person? Maybe Jan would show you his skill in the Villasin grouping system while you're there...

Robert

[yomitche]

That's the best thing I've read on this thread in some time! Ha! I'm probably not gonna check this one out anymore cuz it's like arguin' with frickin' Pee Wee Herman

"I know you are but what am I?"

Peace. Out!

[Mono]

Dear Jan,
just out of curiousity - whats your Point?

From what I have read throughout your Posts you are trying to point out two things:

1. That Ver Villasin is not the Son of Atty. Jose Villasin
2. That the "Villasin Grouping System" is "different" to any other Grouping System.

Now, about number 1: I do not know - there have been some interesting arguments from other Users though.
But since you are so eager to publish the Fact that Ver Villasin is NOT the Son of Atty. Jose Villasin, maybe you should do some research yourself an contact / ask him first before publicly starting discussions about any Familyrelations?!
If I were a direct Student of either of the two "Sons" of Atty. Jose Villasin, I would want to find out as much as I can about all/any "Branches" of this Balintawak Lineage first Hand - especially if there are contradicting Informations/Facts...

About number 2.: You keep stating that the "Villasin Grouping System" is different from others.
I know you are not discussing technical Details of the Villasin Method but...
From what I can see, the Villasin Groupings (as somewhat introduced in this Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Qc1bHGi8I) follow pretty much the same progression as most other Lineages from the Villasin/Velez Lineage I have seen / experienced so far (Elizar, Taboada, Patalinghug, Velez Jr. etc etc):
1. Lifting & Clearing
2. Head Movement
3. Body Movement
Group 4 & 5 are not "named" in the Video above but they also follow what I have seen as named "Familiarization of the Abanico or Fan Strike Defense & Variation" or "Preparation for Speed and Reflex" for Group 4 and Defense against Punches / Attacks with the left Hand for Group 5

I know for a Fact (since I had the honor of meeting / training with all of the above in person or at least with one of their direct Students/Instructors) that all of them follow pretty much the sequence as it is shown in the above Video.

I agree that the "Villasin Grouping System" is porbably different in certain Details from other Groupings; but so is GM Elizars Grouping different from GM Taboadas from GM Chito Velez from any other Master or Grandmasters execution/interpretation of the Groupings...
Some have "added" Groups, sometimes the Groups are named differently, sometimes there are 3, sometimes 4 "Basic Patterns" to a certain Group etc etc - minor changes wherever you look - and everybody agrees on that.

Its all Balintawak, it all follows the Teaching Method of "Grouping" (as introduced to Balintawak from the Villasin/Velez Branch - as opposed to the "ungrouped" Training/teaching Method), its all geared towards beeing spontaneous and applying certain Methods and Concepts in fighting - the "Rest" is details in personal Interpretation out of preference and experience... (or at least thats the way I see it)

Is this what you are trying to say?
If not, what ARE you trying to say and if you say that the Villasin and the "other" Groupings have nothing whatsoever to do with oneanother, how do you explain the similaritys I mentioned above?

As to who was the "Creator" of this type of Grouping method (Villasin or Velez) I do not dare claim or suggest to know - there are others present here who have "been there", others, who have been practicing and researching the Art of Balintawak for more years then I am old - and they have given numerous Informations on this subject.
Some might sound more reasonable to me then others.
I am happy that those people willingly share this Information and I use it, to come to my own conclusions!
I know that I might never know the "real truth" since I have not been there!
But then again, this fact will neither speed up nor slow down my personal growth and abilitys in training and executing the Art of Balintawak - and bottom Line, this is what matters to me; learning & sharing the Art in whatever way I can.

Maybe I have been missing something here - but I just do not see what your point is in this discussion...

Anyways, keep up your training and keep posting on youtube - I always enjoy seeing other Students, Instructors, Masters and Grandmasters of all Branches/Lineages of Balintawak move/train! Thank you for sharing these!

Greetings from Germany,
Philipp "Mono" Wolf

[manhattan1]

Wilson:

You're still living in Cebu, yes? Perhaps you should go to the park while they're practicing and discuss the matter in person? Maybe Jan would show you his skill in the Villasin grouping system while you're there...

Robert

He should be welcome.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[manhattan1]

Dear Jan,
just out of curiousity - whats your Point?



My first post was a reaction to someone who did claim GM. Ver Villasin was the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin, so i of course told him what GM. John Villasin told me that GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin and that was the point....



But since you are so eager to publish the Fact that Ver Villasin is NOT the Son of Atty. Jose Villasin, maybe you should do some research yourself an contact / ask him first before publicly starting discussions about any Familyrelations?!


I cant really see why it should be me, who has to prove he is not the son GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin...
Thats first of all asking me to do something thats near impossible and most of the time if people are what they say they are, they will have proof of it and be happy to show it, just like GM. John Villasin has....
GM. John Villasin is happy to show his Birth Certificate to anyone, last time i talked to one of GM. Ver Villasin's student it did not sound like anyone wanted to come up with any real proof.... :)
Besides it not really only a family matter anymore the day GM. Ver Villasin did decide to make false claims to the public, he did make it both a family and a public matter.... :)


If not, what ARE you trying to say and if you say that the Villasin and the "other" Groupings have nothing whatsoever to do with oneanother, how do you explain the similaritys I mentioned above?


I dont explain it.....The Villasin Balintawak Grouping System.... :)
GM. John Villasin said to me dont explain to much about this online and he had several reasons for that, so of course i will respect that.... :)



Anyways, keep up your training and keep posting on youtube - I always enjoy seeing other Students, Instructors, Masters and Grandmasters of all Branches/Lineages of Balintawak move/train! Thank you for sharing these!


Thanks... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Mono]

My first post was a reaction to someone who did claim GM. Ver Villasin was the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin, so i of course told him what GM. John Villasin told me that GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin and that was the point....



I cant really see why it should be me, who has to prove he is not the son GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin...
Thats first of all asking me to do something thats near impossible and most of the time if people are what they say they are, they will have proof of it and be happy to show it, just like GM. John Villasin has....
GM. John Villasin is happy to show his Birth Certificate to anyone, last time i talked to one of GM. Ver Villasin's student it did not sound like anyone wanted to come up with any real proof.... :)
Besides it not really only a family matter anymore the day GM. Ver Villasin did decide to make false claims to the public, he did make it both a family and a public matter.... :)



I dont explain it.....The Villasin Balintawak Grouping System.... :)
GM. John Villasin said to me dont explain to much about this online and he had several reasons for that, so of course i will respect that.... :)



Thanks... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

Dear Jan, thanks for Answering but I think you got some of my Questions wrong.
First of all, I do not care if you do the research or not - its just what I would do if I were in your position (not for the Public but first of all for myself! Going Public with any claims I would not do unless I have undeniable Proof of what I am saying - but thats my point of view :)

About the Groupings, I did not ask you to explain the Villasin Grouping system. All I asked is "Whats your Point"?
Atty. Villasin "invented" the Villasin Grouping, Teofilo Velez the Teovels Grouping, Nick Elizar the Nickelstick Grouping, Bobby Taboada his Grouping etc etc - in the end (if you strip of the differences in Details) it all comes down to the same Besic Method of teaching... The Grouped Balintawak.
So I am asking again, whats your point?

"A Tree is a Tree and a River a River" (Zen quote)

Greetings!

Philipp "Mono" Wolf

[manhattan1]

Dear Jan, thanks for Answering but I think you got some of my Questions wrong.
First of all, I do not care if you do the research or not - its just what I would do if I were in your position (not for the Public but first of all for myself! Going Public with any claims I would not do unless I have undeniable Proof of what I am saying - but thats my point of view :)

About the Groupings, I did not ask you to explain the Villasin Grouping system. All I asked is "Whats your Point"?
Atty. Villasin "invented" the Villasin Grouping, Teofilo Velez the Teovels Grouping, Nick Elizar the Nickelstick Grouping, Bobby Taboada his Grouping etc etc - in the end (if you strip of the differences in Details) it all comes down to the same Besic Method of teaching... The Grouped Balintawak.
So I am asking again, whats your point?

"A Tree is a Tree and a River a River" (Zen quote)

Greetings!

Philipp "Mono" Wolf

Okay, thanks for your answer.... :)
The only way to get real proof that GM. Ver Villasin is not what he says he is, is if i could get his Birth Certificate. Now how do you suggest i do that?
I dont think he would be very happy to show it to me if he is not what he says he is, do you?

I think he is the one who has to prove his claim, since GM. John Villasin (the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin) says that GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin. GM. John Villasin does prove his claim by showing a Birth Certificate, you can see it right here if you like: http://www.fma-arnis.dk/Villasin_Balintawak

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Mono]

Okay, thanks for your answer.... :)
The only way to get real proof that GM. Ver Villasin is not what he says he is, is if i could get his Birth Certificate. Now how do you suggest i do that?
I dont think he would be very happy to show it to me if he is not what he says he is, do you?

I think he is the one who has to prove his claim, since GM. John Villasin (the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin) says that GM. Ver Villasin is not the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin. GM. John Villasin does prove his claim by showing a Birth Certificate, you can see it right here if you like: http://www.fma-arnis.dk/Villasin_Balintawak

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

Dear Jan,

as I said, thats my opinion. Its none of my business.

Just funny to read how you keep dropping and avoiding my question about your continued statement, that the Villasin Grouping is not the same as any others ;)

I just take this as a agreeing "yes, I am learning the Villasin System and it is different to the other Grouping Systems in Detail - but basically we follow the same teaching Method" ;)

So thanks for clearing this up for me :)

Keep it up!

[manhattan1]

Dear Jan,

as I said, thats my opinion. Its none of my business.

Just funny to read how you keep dropping and avoiding my question about your continued statement, that the Villasin Grouping is not the same as any others ;)

I just take this as a agreeing "yes, I am learning the Villasin System and it is different to the other Grouping Systems in Detail - but basically we follow the same teaching Method" ;)

So thanks for clearing this up for me :)

Keep it up!

Thanks for you answer... :)
Take it anyway you like, as i said i am still not going to explain about it online.... ;)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[malcolmk]

Well personally I don't care who is the son of who, it has no bearing on the individuals ability to teach Balintawak. As for the groupings I think we can all see from the posted videos that as Mono said, it is basically the same. One of the things I thought was stressed in the balintawak world was the sharing of knowledge to anyone who wants to learn, no holding back. It would seem to me that someone is trying to keep alive the stories of the old kungfu films with secret deadly techniques etc. Jan, do you really believe that if the Villasin system had secret techniques that you at your early stage in learning the system would be privy to it? Maybe by continueing to post trainig vids it will encourage the rest of us to download them, slow them down and discover the Villasin secrets? Anyways keep on training and just try to keep learning and improving; the same as the rest of us. Regards.

[manhattan1]

Well personally I don't care who is the son of who, it has no bearing on the individuals ability to teach Balintawak. As for the groupings I think we can all see from the posted videos that as Mono said, it is basically the same. One of the things I thought was stressed in the balintawak world was the sharing of knowledge to anyone who wants to learn, no holding back. It would seem to me that someone is trying to keep alive the stories of the old kungfu films with secret deadly techniques etc. Jan, do you really believe that if the Villasin system had secret techniques that you at your early stage in learning the system would be privy to it? Maybe by continueing to post trainig vids it will encourage the rest of us to download them, slow them down and discover the Villasin secrets? Anyways keep on training and just try to keep learning and improving; the same as the rest of us. Regards.

Funny your quetions lead me to a few other questions:

1. Do you really think you well be able to learn a Martial Arts from youtube only?
2. Do you really think we would upload everything we do and so you can use it?

That you keep trying to guess where i am in the Villasin Balintawak system without knowing our style, just tells me that you either:

A) Are trying to provoke me or/and
B) Shows how little you do know about our style (Villasin Balintawak)...

I think it might be a mix of A and B... ;)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[arnisador]

Well personally I don't care who is the son of who, it has no bearing on the individuals ability to teach Balintawak.

Indeed!

[manhattan1]

Indeed!

I agree, just like all your background, certificates or black belts dont tell anything about your ability to teach Balintawak..... ;)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[malcolmk]

Jan, I did not say that you could learn martial arts from watching youtube, I simply said that if we were really convinced that we were missing something vital then maybe just maybe I or anyone else could download the vids and dissect them to see if I can pick up a trick or two. Now don't take this the wrong way but simply looking at the way you move during the execution of technique on the vids shows that you are not yet in an advanced state of play. I am sure that you will agree that there is a long way to go in knowledge and experience, after all it can't all be learnt overnight.
I am not trying to provoke anyone here, simply giving an opinion as you yourself are doing. Myself, I have been training balintawak since 2006. Each year I visit Cebu for a period of training either with Grandmaster Elizar (Nickelstick) or Master Wilson (Soncen) (Teovels ) so I have seen a LITTLE of both Nickelstick and Teovels styles.
I currently hold the advanced certificate from GM Nick Elizar and teach a little here in the UK. Feel free to look me up complete with vid clips on my site http://trutheskrimagroup.110mb.com/ I do not claim to be an expert or master and I hold no belts, indeed the styles I have trained in (and I believe most of the balintawak styles) have no belt ranking system. The student becomes the teacher and the teacher becomes the student, plus I know I have an awful lot left to learn.
Regards, Malcolm.

[manhattan1]

Jan, I did not say that you could learn martial arts from watching youtube, I simply said that if we were really convinced that we were missing something vital then maybe just maybe I or anyone else could download the vids and dissect them to see if I can pick up a trick or two. Now don't take this the wrong way but simply looking at the way you move during the execution of technique on the vids shows that you are not yet in an advanced state of play. I am sure that you will agree that there is a long way to go in knowledge and experience, after all it can't all be learnt overnight.
I am not trying to provoke anyone here, simply giving an opinion as you yourself are doing. Myself, I have been training balintawak since 2006. Each year I visit Cebu for a period of training either with Grandmaster Elizar (Nickelstick) or Master Wilson (Soncen) (Teovels ) so I have seen a LITTLE of both Nickelstick and Teovels styles.
I currently hold the advanced certificate from GM Nick Elizar and teach a little here in the UK. Feel free to look me up complete with vid clips on my site http://trutheskrimagroup.110mb.com/ I do not claim to be an expert or master and I hold no belts, indeed the styles I have trained in (and I believe most of the balintawak styles) have no belt ranking system. The student becomes the teacher and the teacher becomes the student, plus I know I have an awful lot left to learn.
Regards, Malcolm.

I know what you are trying to say, but as far as i know the only one who can tell me where i am within the Villasin Balintawak style is GM. John Villasin....
The point is unless you are instructor within our style (Villasin Balintawak), you should not act like if you are one......You dont even know our style (Villasin Balintawak), so telling me or anyone in our style (Villasin Balintawak), where they are at is just a act of rudeness (even if you say its not).... :)
I never told you or any of your students, where they are within their/your style since i am not a instructor within their style so it would be wrong of me doing so.....
Just like you are not a instructor within our style Villasin Balintawak and dont know our style, which makes it wrong of you telling me or anyone from our style, where they are at within our system.... :)

Yes, i know who you are, GM Nick Elizar talked about you sometimes....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[arnisador]

I agree, just like all your background, certificates or black belts dont tell anything about your ability to teach Balintawak..... ;)


Well, of course that's a slightly different matter! But I don't know that Brandon Lee was the best at JKD, nor Ed Parker Jr. the best at American Kenpo.


www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

We took our Danish foreign exchange student with us to a play yesterday and in walked a contingent of Englishmen on holiday to sit right behind us. I live in a tiny town in Nowhere, Indiana and have Europeans around me everywhere!

[manhattan1]

Well, of course that's a slightly different matter! But I don't know that Brandon Lee was the best at JKD, nor Ed Parker Jr. the best at American Kenpo.


No, its not.....You cant say one guys background does not matter, but yours does.... :)
That means your background, certificates or black belts dont tell anything about your ability to teach Balintawak either.....



We took our Danish foreign exchange student with us to a play yesterday and in walked a contingent of Englishmen on holiday to sit right behind us. I live in a tiny town in Nowhere, Indiana and have Europeans around me everywhere!

Okay...Yes, i am Danish, but i live in Cebu City the Philippines.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[teelingvillasin]

Gentlemen, I speak in behalf of my family. I am Cherryl Joyce “Teeling” C. Villasin-Tangapa, the youngest of the 17 children of Atty Jose V. Villasin.

John Villasin is the youngest of 5 boys – Jesus “Jingga” (RIP), Jose Jr “Joey”, Bianor “Banoh”, Dennis (RIP).


Ver Villasin is the son of our father’s 1st degree cousin, Severino Villasin, Sr. He is also the godchild of our Dad. Ver is a dear cousin and is like a brother to us. Dad has been treating him like his own son. We are glad he proliferated his learnings of the Balintawak arnis to this day.

Thank you.


Teeling

[arnisador]

Thanks for sharing that information with us!

[manhattan1]

Gentlemen, I speak in behalf of my family. I am Cherryl Joyce “Teeling” C. Villasin-Tangapa, the youngest of the 17 children of Atty Jose V. Villasin.

John Villasin is the youngest of 5 boys – Jesus “Jingga” (RIP), Jose Jr “Joey”, Bianor “Banoh”, Dennis (RIP).


Ver Villasin is the son of our father’s 1st degree cousin, Severino Villasin, Sr. He is also the godchild of our Dad. Ver is a dear cousin and is like a brother to us. Dad has been treating him like his own son. We are glad he proliferated his learnings of the Balintawak arnis to this day.

Thank you.


Teeling

Hi Teeling,

Thanks for the e-mail by the way, i was happy to hear from you.... :)
Tell GM. John Villasin, i said hello and look forward to seeing him again tomorrow.... :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[necopa74]

HI Jan.

just discovered your newest clips on youtube....

Why you still upload this stuff?
The ratings are still mostly only one star....
The viewers don't like them or they can't see the beauty of the art in them.

Be patient and upload again when your style is improved!
When it is a sign of life for your relatives, it is okay...
But not for propagating the Balintawak I was introduced to from my Grandmaster or the Masters I've met in Cebu.

To be honest.... your videos bore me, sorry for that....

Regards
Thorsten

[manhattan1]

HI Jan.

just discovered your newest clips on youtube....

Why you still upload this stuff?
The ratings are still mostly only one star....
The viewers don't like them or they can't see the beauty of the art in them.

Be patient and upload again when your style is improved!
When it is a sign of life for your relatives, it is okay...
But not for propagating the Balintawak I was introduced to from my Grandmaster or the Masters I've met in Cebu.

To be honest.... your videos bore me, sorry for that....

Regards
Thorsten

Hi Thorsten,

You never liked or did understand anything from my video clips from nearly the very start, you have several times tried to e-mail me or comment on my youtube just because what we did was not the same as what you are doing........

Well Thorsten, if you are that good look me up and show me the beauty of your art next time your are in Cebu City..... :)

PS. Yes, i also post so my kids and family in Denmark can see me.....

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[rompida]

I don't think that he is criticizing because it doesn't look like his art. I think what he is getting at is that your videos make it very evident that your are still in the early stages of learning Balintawak - and that is something that any player can tell, regardless of lineage or style. Things like balance, coordination, and clean movement are aspects that are being noticed, watched, and commented on.

If you are indeed trying to promote Balintawak, you would do better to continue learning, train hard, wait awhile and then show clips of yourself that will really make people take notice - in a more desireable way.

As for inviting folks to meet up with you in Cebu City to show you the beauty of their art - I would be very careful what you wish for and how you phrase it. Sure sounds like issuing a challenge to me, which could get messy.

good luck

-Brian

[manhattan1]

I don't think that he is criticizing because it doesn't look like his art. I think what he is getting at is that your videos make it very evident that your are still in the early stages of learning Balintawak - and that is something that any player can tell, regardless of lineage or style. Things like balance, coordination, and clean movement are aspects that are being noticed, watched, and commented on.

If you are indeed trying to promote Balintawak, you would do better to continue learning, train hard, wait awhile and then show clips of yourself that will really make people take notice - in a more desireable way.

As for inviting folks to meet up with you in Cebu City to show you the beauty of their art - I would be very careful what you wish for and how you phrase it. Sure sounds like issuing a challenge to me, which could get messy.

good luck

-Brian

I know what he was getting at because he has been sending me e-mails to, as i also said above....But what i dont understand is why you see the need to start picking now, both Thorsten and i are talking in a nice way by mails on Facebook, so why stir up anything now?
The thing with the beauty of the art, you can take any way you like, but all i said was he could show me the "beauty of his art", nothing else....

Regarding my skill level, so should i listen to your waste knowledge about me and my background that says i am a beginner or should i listen to GM. John Villasin, who says i am within the advanced and only have to teach one student his system to become a instructor....
Who do you think knows the Villasin style best? :)

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[rompida]

I said it because some folks may see that post as a thinly disguised challenge. I was hoping that was not what you were trying to do. Just don't want to see someone get hurt or worse.

As for "waste knowledge", I'm just going to let that go. Not worth it. In the end, actions speak louder than words.

[manhattan1]

actions speak louder than words.

You are correct and your actions just told me you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to Villasin Balintawak (either that or GM. John Villasin is wrong, which is very unlikely)...

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
www.fma-arnis.dk (http://www.fma-arnis.dk/)

[Carol]

Thread locked pending staff review.

- Carol Kaur
- FMAT Admin

[arnisador]

Reminder: This is a discussion forum and people are free to discuss their disagreements on matters. However, it' crucial that this be done in a polite and professional manner. People sometimes think that the matter of interest to them merits such stronger language, but then are dismayed when they go to other areas of the forum and find similarly heated discussions. Keeping the level of discussion to an appropriate standard of discourse is to everyone's benefit.

-Arnisador
-FMAT Admin