Forward and Reverse Triangles

[MikeC563]

Hi folks,
Just wondering if anyone has spent any time analyzing how one particular technique can work better/worse whether you're using a Forward of Reverse triangle pattern?
For example, in the Slap Set in Abecedario, technique #2 - the slap to the left ear. It starts out with an elbow crush to the right punch and then the slap to the ear. It seems that depending on the distancing and timing of the attack that you could use either triangle and make it work.
Not really asking a particular question, but just wondering what others think of all this?

TIA,

Mike

[lhommedieu]

If you're performing it with your right hand, it's a slap to his right ear - yes?

I assume that you mean that he throws a right punch, and you counter with a parry with the left hand, elbow destruction to his right bicep with your right elbow, and a backhand slap to his right ear with your right hand?

In this case you're not using a full male or female triangle - just a 45 degree step to the left to out-flank him; if you bring the right foot up (kick or knee) and then put it down at the apex of the triangle and bring the left foot back, then yes, this is a male triangle. But you could just as easily step across the top of the (new) female triangle to defend against the left hand with your right hand, and/or attack the head again with a left Abcedario #1. Or you could just side-step to the right at the end of your step and do the same (combination right hand Abcedario #2 followed by left hand Abcedario #1). Then what? Take off to left by pulling the right foot back and another female triangle to the left? The permutations can go out pretty far and it's kind of hard to say what you'd actually do - particularly if he's hitting back.

Again though, you would probably not use the "full" male or female triangle but just a piece here or there to effect a new line depending on what's going on. I think at this point it's a star rather than triangles....

Best,

Steve

[MikeC563]

If you're performing it with your right hand, it's a slap to his right ear - yes?

Yes, his right ear. Your left side. Yep.



I assume that you mean that he throws a right punch, and you counter with a parry with the left hand, elbow destruction to his right bicep with your right elbow, and a backhand slap to his right ear with your right hand?


Yes, except that you elbow his knuckles and not his bicep.



In this case you're not using a full male or female triangle - just a 45 degree step to the left to out-flank him; if you bring the right foot up (kick or knee) and then put it down at the apex of the triangle and bring the left foot back, then yes, this is a male triangle.

From what I've been taught in Pekiti, if you step 45deg forward in response to his attack, then that's what we call a Reverse Triangle. My question is, what if instead you fade 90 deg to your left, strike with the elbow, and then step in with your right foot 45 deg forward and you perform the slap to the ear? Is one better than the other or is it dependent on the situation?


<snip>


Again though, you would probably not use the "full" male or female triangle but just a piece here or there to effect a new line depending on what's going on.

True.

Thanks Steve

[lhommedieu]

From what I've been taught in Pekiti, if you step 45deg forward in response to his attack, then that's what we call a Reverse Triangle. My question is, what if instead you fade 90 deg to your left, strike with the elbow, and then step in with your right foot 45 deg forward and you perform the slap to the ear? Is one better than the other or is it dependent on the situation?

Well, starting from your post and continuing to this one we're in the land of "what if's?" I would say - one is no better than the other as it is dependent on the situation - what someone that I respect a lot calls "appropriateness." Two things to consider about fading 90 deg to your left (vs. side-stepping which is another option): (1) you still have to address his punch, which you've done by what? Slipping it? That's fair enough - but he can still track you, which argues for getting your hands up and in the way. (2) If you opt for getting your hands up and in the way, then that female triangle step a couple of advantages: (1) it makes you quicker (you're meeting him as he thinks he's meeting you); (2) since you're moving forward as you're flanking, you're bringing your power and leverage to bear (the parry up has a shearing quality) (3) It brings you inside the arc of his left hand while giving you a chance to hit him. I'd say it's the more pro-active choice which is why I might favor it over fading 90 deg...

With respect to the right foot step towards him you're probably going to do that 9/10 times as the right usually follows the left. Basically a lot of people are going to step-off line, step back on-line because it makes sense. As per the above, though, the female triangle step off-line gives you more forward momentum than the 90 deg. side-fade.

There're a lot of people a lot better at Pekiti than me so I'm going to give them a chance to answer before I post again.

Best,

Steve

[Jack Latorre]

Hello Gents--

In regards to Mike's question about whether or not particular techniques work better or worse with forward or reverse triangles...it's all about function and purpose.

It 's been said so many times before that footwork accomplishes so many things...

-mobility in terms of evasion (getting out of the way)
-mobility in terms of counterattack (getting into an advantageous position)
-power generation (using torquing, as in side-stepping...or triangle footwork, which displaces your body weight, and the transition of that body weight is an opportunity to use that body weight as accelerated mass)

So in analyzing AND practicing a particular technique, see which purposes are served with each step. The more purposes served, the better...

Much of what one sees in the PTI curriculum are "models" to demonstrate one particular scenario, knowing that a diligent practitioner can transpose and interpolate the dynamics of body motion onto other scenarios. The keys, of course, are an analytic eye and quality training.

Look forward to seeing you guys at the camp.

Best,

Jack A. Latorre

[equilibrium]

45 degrees forward or 90 degrees to the side is a question of timing.