Carabao Dulo-Dulos

[sjansen]

Does anyone have any good sets or info on the proper use of carabao horn dulo-dulos?

I've got some and have used them in practice, but want to know if there are any specific techniques that work best for this weapon. Does anyone have any video?

[silat1]

The dulo-dulo applications are pretty much the same as the olisi palad or palm stick.. You can get a good idea of what and how to use them by getting Ted LucayLucay's pocket stick video from Unique Publications or any other martial arts supplier..

[sjansen]

Does anyone know any techniques that are specific to pointed dulo-dulos?

Using a palm sticks is not the same thing. They are not sharp and cannot penetrate like the carabao dulo-dulos on both ends.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Modern Arnis use it quite a bit I believe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyaoEvd-R2M

[arnisador]

It was never a standard weapon in Modern Arnis for us, but we do play with it from an "It's all the same" perspective! Sal Todaro is one Modern Arnis player who has really gotten into it.

[Jack Latorre]

Hello All--

It's all really knife technique...whether it's pointed dulo-dulo, knife, closed pocket folder, what have you...probably more so "small knife" technique rather than "large knife" technique, but knife technique none-the-less.

The more you think about it, the more you realize you can think less about it.

Train hard,

Jack A. Latorre

[sjansen]

Hello All--

It's all really knife technique...whether it's pointed dulo-dulo, knife, closed pocket folder, what have you...probably more so "small knife" technique rather than "large knife" technique, but knife technique none-the-less.

The more you think about it, the more you realize you can think less about it.

Train hard,

Jack A. Latorre

I don't see it as a knife technique per se as the carabao dulo-dulo has no blade. The weapon has certain atributes that a knife and palm stick do not. Therefore, it must be utilized to bring it's attributes to the forefront. In many cases I can carry a carbaou dul-dulo and not a knife. I'm looking for specific techniques that bring out the best in the weapon and not ones that are non-specific to the weapon. I know many knife techniques for both short and long knives that do not translate to this weapon.

[Jack Latorre]

sjansen--

Although the dulo-dulo has no blade to speak of, much small knife technique focuses on the thrust/stab, as the smaller blade does not lend itself to the kind of stopping power with slashing/hacking that a large blade has. A smaller blade becomes less effective with slashing and relies on the thrust/stab for its stopping power.

Many of the pocket knives that can be carried legally far around the 3.5" blade length range. Something of that blade length has significant penetrative power, which can be parallelled with the dulo-dulo. No...slashing with the dulo-dulo may be fruitless unless done against the eyes, but should you focus on small knife techniques that emphasize the thrust, the transitive properties should be evident enough. Therefore, avoid training techniques that emphasize the slash and you will do well.

I think it fair to mention that although the dulo-dulo has no blade, it can certainly be a formidable self-defense tool in the absence of superior technology, like a metal knife or firearm.

In the end, much of what you are trying to accomplish is to stop the bad guy from doing bad things to you and your loved ones. As long as your training strives to achieve this end, it won't matter much if it's a dulo-dulo, pocket stick or pocket knife.

Be well,

Jack A. Latorre

[silat1]

Mr. Latorre, Thank you for reinforcing my earlier posting about the same applications can be with the olisi palad or palm stick.. It probably took a point of view from another perspective to get the point across that the palm stick can also be used as the dulo dulo not having to be sharp pointed at the ends.. In the Philippines, I have seen them with the rounded edges and they served the same purpose.. The Dulo Dulo is primarily called that in modern arnis and not in any of the other FMA systems that I have seen both in the states and in the Philippines.. Just my .02 pesos

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

My understanding is that is also (/previously?) known as Sungay - horn of the deer. The design was modified and made from carabao horn which is more abundant.

Here is a link to Tat Kon Tou info and usage on it:

http://pangamut.aom3.info/sungay-horn-fighting.html

[lhommedieu]

Nice discussion. I started to make a post a few days ago but backed out of it as I wasn't sure what I wanted to say. Jack, Bill, and Simon have added their weight to the conversation, and I can now add my 2 cents and still be sure that it's worth close to 2 cents.

In essense: short knives, dulo dulos, and palm sticks are force multipliers along a continuum since the impact point is smaller than it would normally be with an empty hand strike. While its true that a pointed dulu dulu can do some of the same work that a short knife can do as it will penetrate into soft, fleshy targets, the prime targets for a "sharp" dulo dulo would probably be the eyes and neck as you may not get as much penetration in other fleshy targets with arterial flow (your choice of targets with a short knife). Then again you might know how to (and might have to) get your dulo dulo to penetrate further than most people could - so targeting (for example) the axila or bottom of occiput or femoral triangle might be on your short list as well.

In terms of techniques for dulo dulo, then, the rubric would generally be:

Footwork + level change + forehand or backhand shot to target +n (n being the kind of target) times x (x being the number of times the rubric is used).

Your choice of targets depends of course on how you've decided to tailor your exact circumstance. Less potentially lethal techniques might include using the top (thumb side) end on bony targets like ribs, elbows, and knees on forearm shots, and using the bottom (pinkie side) end on the same on backhand shots. So a representative technique (abstracted from Kajukenbo) against a right roundhouse punch might be:

Duck (wave in) and step out to left (female triangle) as you torque left to hit inside of opponent's right knee with top end of dulo dulo;
Step-shuffle (or side-step) and torque back to center (to right) to hit ribs or kidneys with bottom of dulo dulo (like a hammer fist):
Grapple to throw to ground to finish (optional)

Best,

Steve

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Nice Post Steve :)

It's been a couple of years since I saw GM Rodel Dagooc show me a short demo of the Carabao dulo dulo. From memory he used a number of backhand strikes as you mentioned and also used the point for disarming to the knife hand.

My instructor (GM Yulo Romo) also says what has been previously posted - if you know how to use the knife / punyo it's the same as using a dulo dulo. However, something I personally notice that whether you are using a stick, blade or dulo you need to do a little bit of tweeking to adapt to the range / type of edge (if any) to the weapon you are using.

But then again I am not a GM!

I would also be interested to see how the usage of the "dulo dulo" compares to that of it's Japanese counterpart, the kubotan....

Simon.

[PG Michael B]

Just grab the sumbitch and go to work...screw all the weapon specific hype...punch with it...gouge with it.....etc.etc.etc......whether it has a point or not is non consequential..just use it when you need it and beat the ever living crap out of the dumb ass your using it on.

[Carol]

Also consider uses tight spaces where your movement may be restricted: carjacking attempts, air/train/bus seats, crowded elevator....

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Hmmm, not sure I agree with that tbh Mike. You wouldn't use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.

I'm just doing some research into a possible book project and found this relevant point from an interview with Richard Bustillio featured on www.combat-journal.com (http://www.combat-journal.com) :




Does the edged weapon require different training to an impact weapon or are the skills transferable?


Edge weapons and blunt impact weapons are similar and transferable. Edge weapons have a special application because of a sharp point and edge. To be proficient in edge weapons, requires learnt skills. Blunt impact weapons are normally power strikes with minimum skills. Formal training in impact weapons and edge weapons will give one the benefit to transpose one weapon to the other.For me that's a great way of looking at the differences between edged / blunt impact weapons.

[arnisador]

I would also be interested to see how the usage of the "dulo dulo" compares to that of it's Japanese counterpart, the kubotan....

Or really, the yawara was the original version of this! Some of them were pointed, unlike the kubotan.

[PG Michael B]

Hmmm, not sure I agree with that tbh Mike. You wouldn't use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.

Don't have to agree with it. But let's face it...all this hype about edge specific weapon specific etc.etc. is hype. They are the best laid plans so to speak. People say never hit edge on edge because you can chip your edge etc...HEY guess what? No matter if I chip that edge..dull that edge it's still gonna take some jack ass apart. Same with a dulo dulo....blunt, pointed it doesn't matter...I'm still gonna go ape **** on the person. In true combat..when your ass is on the line it don't go down in a contrived manner. So whether it is pointed, blunted or what have you..when your ass is on the line **** the fine details and do what you have to do to get home, ALIVE! Smashing some dudes skull in means he is just as dead as the cat who got his guts opened.

As to a nail with a screwdriver...."Just because it ain't made for it don't mean I can't use it, for it!"

Adapt & Overcome

Simplicity with INTENT!

[Carol]

Iin other words, its OK to bring a screwdriver to a nail fight LOL!!

[Jack Latorre]

Hello All--

Frankly, I am not surprised that a discussion of "proper technique per weapon category" has evolved into another "will versus skill" discussion. But rather than pick sides, I think it more salient to think of the two discussions as less polarized.

We all train techniques, but need the will to carry out any of them.

"Will" can carry you home safely...but "will without training" for how many occasions is anyone's guess.

All we can do is do our best to increase our field-goal percentage as per survival.

And I do not think it naive to think that training sensible technique with real intent is what we all strive for in the end.

Having a dulo-dulo handy but without the chutzpah to use it is futile.

Having willpower without ability or technology can work for a time, but puts you behind the curve of everyone else who has intent AND a weapon AND the know-how to use it.

So have a nice evening and remember why we train the way we do...:)

Best,

Jack A. Latorre

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Thanks Jack / Mike.

I do agree, having one without the other is futile.

So, how about those carabao dulo dulos? :frowntobi

I sell them for $30 a pair (FMA Talk Discount) with shipping.

*** Intent not included*** ;)

[PG Michael B]

I have a pair of Carabao dulos..they are nice...but the ones I prefer are some cut down angled off 1" re-bar stock. I use the black electric tape to keep it stealthy. For non metallic dulos I use a piece of hickory I whittled out..nasty blunt and pointed end. And if yah ever get in a pinch..a nice ball point pen makes an excellent one...just ask Nicky.. (CASINO).