Kali going mainstream?

[99medic]

What are peoples opinion on this? Is it going to be good or bad for the art?

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think that Arnis, Kali, Escrima are already mainstream! :coolyello Overall I think it is good. However, let us all hope that the majority of practitioners do not get a watered down version.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[ryangruhn]

Let us not forget the possible Reality Show with Dog Brothers :)

Gruhn

[99medic]

I just hope it does'nt get watered down like other martial arts.

[arnisador]

I just hope it does'nt get watered down like other martial arts.

Alas, it happens to all arts. Someone will find a way to make a buck off of it. I've already seen cardio stickboxing classes.

But, more exposure is good for all of us, I say.

[Sheldon Bedell]

I've already seen cardio stickboxing classes.

I have seen this also and it was a joke, but it made money for the instructor ( who by the way had no FMA experience)

[Buwaya]

Google Escribic.

[kroh]

Google Escribic.

Oh dear God...

Thankfully I don't speak German or I would have been crying. I just don't get what the attraction to these classes are. Say that it is stick arobics or something. Why do these people always trying to be something that they are not? There is a woman I work with who swears to me that her cardio kickboxing classes prepare her to protect herself in the event of an attack. I just smile and say "Oh... good for you." She doesn't know I am a martial practitioner but knows I was in the Military. I guess some people just have something to prove.

I think the arts of the Philipines that are directly tied to combat methods going mainstream is the same as any other combat arts doing the same...A BAD idea. The average person looking for a hobby won't take the training and they soon quit. Instructors trying to build a reputation (and a nest egg) soon change the method of instruction to accomodate the average. When some one from the country of origin walks in they see a watered down version and are usually dissapointed. If it is one thing I can say with certainty, is that, I have never heard it say that fortune favors the "average." The Japanese martial arts have suffered the same dilemma and thus we have the term, McDojo.

I am in no way saying that the average person can't handle the training. I am saying that they won't. Why participate in an FMA program where realistic fighting skills are taught and engrained every day through hard work and discipline (as well as a few well placed tactical jokes...Ever take your buddy's stick and replace it with one that is 90% tape...) when you can go to a Family Kenpo school where they have a Kali (pronounced like the state) program once a week? Besides, if you train someplace concerned more with training rather than cardio and appearance then you might have to give up all those cool uniforms.

Sport oriented Filipino programs are fine if they are marketed as such. In the Japanese Martial Arts every one knows that Kendo is a sport and does not teach ACTUAL sword methods. Most of the dedicated practitioners do the real stuff on the side. Every one is happy. They get their sport and their angry killing methods too. I definately think there is something wrong with dummying down a skill that is designed for superior individuals so that the mediocre can grasp it. The training is designed to elevate people to be able to fight in a manner that was not possible before. We should allow the training to do its job and elevate people to the standard, not lower the standard to accommodate the people.

Don't introduce actual hand to hand combat training to the masses, the consequences could be dire ...

http://www.escribic.com/escribic.jpg

Regards,
Walt

[JohnJ]

Kali is already mainstream. And the issue of being watered down is not as much a concern as the people, systems and organizations that have bastardized the arts for their own selfish rewards.

[kroh]

Kali is already mainstream. And the issue of being watered down is not as much a concern as the people, systems and organizations that have bastardized the arts for their own selfish rewards.

Bastardized as in just throwing something together with no rhyme or reason or basterdized as in the logical progression of one fighting method when it is cleverly and intricately woven into another (like in the case of many kuntao/ kuntaw systems or some of the arts that have come from multiple families)???

Regards,
Walt

[PeteNerd]

Oh man, i can't wait to start my escrima-robics class.... that will be so hot. I think the germans might be onto something there. Watch out for bad ass smak stick wielding soccer moms in the near future. hahaha.

Pete

[kroh]

Oh man, i can't wait to start my escrima-robics class.... that will be so hot. I think the germans might be onto something there. Watch out for bad ass smak stick wielding soccer moms in the near future. hahaha.

Pete

Yep....You win the "That was just plain wrong!" award. You get a plaque and a nifty pen...plus free google searches for a year!

Regards,
Walt

P.S. Laughed my backside off when I saw that post!

[JohnJ]

Bastardized as in...

Bastardize as in the poor quality of instruction due to the paper mills spitting out certifications. Need I say more?

JohnJ

[kroh]

Bastardize as in the poor quality of instruction due to the paper mills spitting out certifications. Need I say more?

JohnJ

I think you are 100% correct that we, as responsible martial artists, need to do what we can to prevent that kind of thing from happening. Since it is hard to compete with the almighty dollar and the whole deathmatch thing is out of the question in this country (wink), we will have to make sure the public who sees our part of the martial community understands what it should be and what it definately isn't.

Good point,
Regards,
Walt

[Matt Lim]

Escribic would be nice if the girls are younger and wear only g-strings.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Escribic would be nice if the girls are younger and wear only g-strings.
Remember that there are men, women and children that view this site. Let's not get out of hand. Some things are better left for pm's.

[Buwaya]

I second Mr.Hartman's piont.

The above post is one reason why there are not that many women in FMA.

[Matt Lim]

Kumusta,

My apologies mr. Hartman. I understand.

Salamat!

[arnisador]

The 8 May 2006 Wall Street Journal carried an article (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/wsj/access/1033361111.html?dids=1033361111:1033361111&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=May+8%2C+2006&author=Gwendolyn+Bounds&type=8_90&desc=Small+Business+(A+Special+Report)) (free preview only) on Ilaria Montagnani, an Italian instructor of martial arts fitness classes in Manhattan. Her company is called Powerstrike Inc. The article is mostly about how a person whose job is closely tied to their own appearance and abilities--as with a fitness instructor--can continue to perform well financially as he or she ages (it's titled "Making the Most of Your 15 Minutes"); but it features a picture of her leading a "Powerstrike Forza" class which "uses a weighted wooden and plastic fitness sword to replicate Japanese sword-fighting techniques." Apparently, she is doing well with it and training instructors and trainers.

[kabaroan]

RE: Escribic... I just saw the videos...man was that painful to watch! I feel insulted.

[Kailat]

Okay here is my problem w/ this. When I started FMA back in somewhere around 86, FMA was a secretive or very limited as to who studied it etc...I mean I was very fortunate to have found my instructor back then for he only taught to small groups and to only those of his own choosing.

After Im all grown up and working in Law Enforcement and something that has concerned me as of lately, is FMA becoming more popular. NOW i don't want to sound selfish but i know im going too...

Several people use the term "watered down!" I agree that there are many FMA that have been passed down for a few $ and the "NOT SO LEGIT" part of the system has been handed out. TO ME, I am not against that as much as FMA in whole becoming a commercialized or as rampant in every city or corner like TKD and karate has become. sure thats great for the guy running the school means more $ for him.. he sees it as a business..

to me My martial arts are more then $. To me it is a "way of life", and or a means of self preservation of the system first and foremost...

Once the FMA become over popular like TKD and KARATE has been so bastardized over the years anyone and everyone who can do a front kick claims to know something about or has an "uncle" who teaches KARATE... we all know these guys that make these claims..

I just would hate to see FMA fallinto this same category.

Now me as a Police Officer.. and i say this very safely. If im rolling up on a call of a possible domestic or fight of anysort.. and I hear the call say " the guy is a known martial artist" Around here in my area it means he's a Karate guy..and although heed and caution are in place..im not as worried about the karate kid as much as I would be say he was skilled or trained in Kali, Eskrima, Arnis, Silat etc... some more effective or nastier combative martial arts... I don't want to see the FMA being placed into the minds or skilled hands of a maniac or worse yet a natural born killer... and there are so many situations where someone gets a black belt in karate or better yet, these cage fighting clowns who just think they are billy red bad ass and go to bars and pick fights because they know a few moves.. now lets imagine a skilled kali practicioner goign to the bar and picking a fight to knife someone to death? THINK IT DON'T or WONT happen? Im certain it will if it hasnt i some place else already.

Now i know we've all heard the stories of the GM of Arnis, or ESKRIMA like cabales, Gaje, Giron, Canete's, etc... who were all street thugs growing up in the PI who or when they came to the US and was doing the FULL CONTACT "death matches" etc...but those were their times and there culture... in AMERICA its not acceptable unless $ is being made and or its sanctioned...

I personally would like to see Kali and the rest of the FMA and SILAT arts remain for a chosen few that has the love and desire to see the arts preserved and trained andpassed on to the few who will cherish it rather then open the doors of a school for mere bonus points or a chance to make a buck or two...

okay im off my thrown for now..

Salamat Hormat

cory

[monkey]

I have been brought into kali with Buji Mateen & the empy hand with sikaron kicks & quick disarms are great.Now I have seen 1 taht kinda put lots on edge I hope I spell this right if not forgive me (Gadiosa Rube)supose to be the only female grand master.Why is it a basic level arnisadoor or escrimadoor or kali player makes this 1 claim look like its demoed by a cripple?Any commetns on Ruby from Tx I beleave.

[arnisador]

Aerobic stick fighting is a great way to battle fat (http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/154678)



Each student in the "kali-robics" class in the Seattle gym grabbed both ends of his or her two baton-length bamboo sticks and shuffled back and forth and diagonally. At times, it looked more like a soft-shoe dance audition than an ancient martial art. Kali is the art of stick fighting and has long been taught and practiced in the Philippines, as well as among neighboring tribes and warlords. Filipinos say their martial art is self-originated and distinct from other nations.


But the eight participants never expected to learn how to beat back marauders. The point of the 10-week, 50-class "body sculpt challenge" was to burn calories and change body composition.

[ricthedic]

Very well said Kroh! Its simple when you see someone that teaches that way, walk up and slap them with crossada 1&2 very hard, maybe you can wake them up from their fantasy of being a true FMA practitioner,then ask them why they didnt block or move!! Just a thought that I had. You can handle it your way,I bet its close if not worse then mine, hopefully!

[arnisador]

Along the same general lines:
Punching Parkinson's (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007702060312)
Exercise makes a difference for patients with the disease (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007702060312)

Newman boxes to keep disease at bay (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007702060310)
Once a county official, Scott Newman focuses on combating Parkinson's (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007702060310)

People with Parkinson's disease use boxing training (without sparring) to improve their condition.

[Brock]

I've mixed feelings on this subject. During the Tae Bo/Cardio Karate craze, I saw many students start their martial arts career after joining the fitness class that were offered at my former school. That's a positive I see out of that type of exposure. I've also seen girls in my women's self protection classes that have taken a "kickboxing" class from the local gym, and think they can deffend themselves from a 300 lb male attacker because of the "skills" learned there. (Which as a 300 lb male I'm more than happy to disprove and then show them what they can do, to defend themselves against me.) All and all I think my point is more that if the class is taught by a responsible MA instructor that makes a point of telling the students that they are there for fitness, not self defense, and not an areobics instructor that took a weeked certification course and has no prior martial arts knowledge it's not as bad an idea as it seems.

[PG Michael B]

Commercialism and popularity come with anything that the public deems worthy and more so anything that can be turned into a cash cow....FMA is the hot topic at the time...we went through the Ninjutsu face, The Karate Phase.....and even the RBSD phase (which is still breathing)....it is what it is .

Just stick to your guns and keep it real....

[jus_dann]

Oh dear God...

Thankfully I don't speak German or I would have been crying. I just don't get what the attraction to these classes are. Say that it is stick arobics or something. Why do these people always trying to be something that they are not? There is a woman I work with who swears to me that her cardio kickboxing classes prepare her to protect herself in the event of an attack. I just smile and say "Oh... good for you." She doesn't know I am a martial practitioner but knows I was in the Military. I guess some people just have something to prove.

I think the arts of the Philipines that are directly tied to combat methods going mainstream is the same as any other combat arts doing the same...A BAD idea. The average person looking for a hobby won't take the training and they soon quit. Instructors trying to build a reputation (and a nest egg) soon change the method of instruction to accomodate the average. When some one from the country of origin walks in they see a watered down version and are usually dissapointed. If it is one thing I can say with certainty, is that, I have never heard it say that fortune favors the "average." The Japanese martial arts have suffered the same dilemma and thus we have the term, McDojo.

I am in no way saying that the average person can't handle the training. I am saying that they won't. Why participate in an FMA program where realistic fighting skills are taught and engrained every day through hard work and discipline (as well as a few well placed tactical jokes...Ever take your buddy's stick and replace it with one that is 90% tape...) when you can go to a Family Kenpo school where they have a Kali (pronounced like the state) program once a week? Besides, if you train someplace concerned more with training rather than cardio and appearance then you might have to give up all those cool uniforms.

Sport oriented Filipino programs are fine if they are marketed as such. In the Japanese Martial Arts every one knows that Kendo is a sport and does not teach ACTUAL sword methods. Most of the dedicated practitioners do the real stuff on the side. Every one is happy. They get their sport and their angry killing methods too. I definately think there is something wrong with dummying down a skill that is designed for superior individuals so that the mediocre can grasp it. The training is designed to elevate people to be able to fight in a manner that was not possible before. We should allow the training to do its job and elevate people to the standard, not lower the standard to accommodate the people.

Don't introduce actual hand to hand combat training to the masses, the consequences could be dire ...

http://www.escribic.com/escribic.jpg

Regards,
Walt



hey i feel you on that one brother (to the bone)
dan

[kabaroan]

Part of the surging popularity of FMA, I think it that it is something different. I don't think many people thought all that much of FMA when it was used in Xena: Warrior Princess (remember Gabrielle's character?)

Given mainstream movies (Bourne Identity, Bourne Supremacy, The Hunted), FMA is now seen as something new and invorgating, something different from the mainstream TKD or Karate or Kung Fu that many people are used to seeing.

I was in my first TKD tournament. I only started training last month. I entered the Weapons competition and came in third, and drew a rather large crowd because many of the pratitioners there have not seen FMA (I performed our Abridged 15 Form A, Compuesta variation - a doble baston form). It was great to put the art out there for others to see.

Training in FMA can be Cultural, Sportive or Combative. Culturally, we are preserving the arts of our forefathers. Sportive, we are conditioning our bodies and mind to be healthy. Combative, offensive and defensive techniques for self preservation. It all comes down to the perspective of the instructor and the student.

Hopefully the arts will continue, many of our manongs are leaving us and hopefully, the arts will continue to flourish.