Self Promotion

[greg808]

Great article......

"Known as Kotaka-ha Shito Ryu, the family’s karate enterprise encompasses schools in Hawaii, California, Washington and Chicago. The dojos are franchises that do not pay fees to the Kotakas, but that do teach Chuzo’s style - and do so only with the master’s permission.

“I’d say our standards are more difficult, a lot higher than typical karate schools,” the champ says. “That is not to say other schools are not good, but I truly believe that our standards are at a very high level and that my father has maintained that since coming over from Japan. It may take a little bit longer, but when you do achieve a certain level I think it’s worth more.”

Another thing that separates their students from others is that his father’s signature is on every promotion. Chuzo, a ninth-degree black belt, was awarded by his master in Japan the right to promote students. Many schools on the Mainland create their own certificates, which George says dilutes the standards as the schools have little or no connection to and understanding of the roots of the sport."- Taken from Midweek story Going Out On Top to read full story go to
http://www.midweek.com/content/story/midweek_coverstory/george_kotaka/'

[sjansen]

People will say whatever they want to demean one style and promote their own. If they demean other styles, do you really want to be part of that. It only demeans the martial arts as a whole. If people are learning what they want too who cares. Rank is a belt or certificate worn in a dojo. The street will tell who knows what. To teach someone something and say they are better than someone else in their training will only make them worse on the street because they will have overconfidence. To give them a certificate or belt may be just as bad, but who cares. It is not your concern. If you make it your concern, you place just as much if not more wealth in the certificate or belt as they do which makes you just as much if not more at risk on the street.

[Ares326]

In one perspective could be a demeaning of one style, but would it be something else, like the quality of teaching of any art. My question is, "Why be diverse if the quality of teaching is not complete or shorten compared to hardcore, traditional training." The reason why some Grandmasters and Masters starting to say something is because once they teach someone for short amount of years they go out and they start creating their so called art, and then, their own school. Yes, I do understand what you mean about being on the streets (no rules, no holds bar), but if people invest on something... don't you think they would rather have their investment work or last longer? I'm sorry if I offend anyone and I don't intend to, but these are my thoughts to share with.

[greg808]

"Many schools on the Mainland create their own certificates, which George says dilutes the standards as the schools have little or no connection to and understanding of the roots of the sport."

[The Phalanx]

His comment about diluting the standards of the school or whatever is utter non-sense...

To me, whatever school you go to does not matter as long as that school teaches you how to fight... Martial Arts is about fighting, not belts, not family traditions, not standards, fighting...

You take a hardcore MMA fighter at someone's garage or backyard and pit him against some black belt who studies at the comfort of a studio for 10-15 years 2x a week and see who comes out the winner... The most conditioned fighter will win, most if not all the time... Standards, belts, traditions are out the window... Matter of fact, you have more to lose if you have so much "decorations" on yourself...

It's about who is more conditioned, who knows how to fight, who knows how to get hit, who knows what works and what doesn't in a fight will come out the winner... Not traditions, belts, or standards...

Belts, traditions, and school standards can only take you so far... What you want is someone who can train students how to fight... Someone who knows what works and what doesn't through their experiences...

I know so many fighters in my circle that have no ranking, no belts, or any of that but can run over anyone who has... That is true standards...

Your level on how good you can fight should be the true standard, not who signs some piece of paper claiming you have achieved some colored belt...

[greg808]

Some train to be MMA fighters some don't. I found something I'm passionate about. I train to so that I can protect myself, family and friends if need to. Hopefully I never have to use the art. To me belts or ranking does not matter since I have a life long commitment and passion. But some use it for personal gain and fame, which I think is sad. Do you train to be a MMA fighter? I don't.

[silat1]

Greg.
You have to remember that the FMA was one of the original mixed martial arts and was in practice centuries before MMA made it's appearance on the american shores..Oh wait, history of Jean Lafite and his band of buccaneers from the Caribbean/Atlantic had Pinoys on his ships and they hid out in the Bayous of Louisiana and that area before it was even part of America... I stand corrected, the MMA of the Philippines aka blade and sword use were part of american folklore back in the early 19th century..

My mistake and I stand corrected

[The Phalanx]

Some train to be MMA fighters some don't. I found something I'm passionate about. I train to so that I can protect myself, family and friends if need to. Hopefully I never have to use the art. To me belts or ranking does not matter since I have a life long commitment and passion. But some use it for personal gain and fame, which I think is sad. Do you train to be a MMA fighter? I don't.

I agree Greg...

You don't have to train to be an MMA fighter... But train regardless... My instructor is not an MMA fighter but lives a fighter's life... He trains 3-4x a day-everyday... At work and at home... Day and night... He's even invited me and the guys to train with him at his house numerous times... Even offering extra training even when it's not training day... He wants to teach you how to fight... He does not offer belts or ranks...

Sometimes knowing "just enough" is not enough... You may come across someone who does train and wants to do harm to you and your loved ones... God forbid that day will happen but it is better to be prepared than unprepared...

There is nothing wrong with training for personal gain Greg... Whatever their reason-you gotta admit that those guys are very skilled fighters... They know what works and what doesn't... When people say that they are only sport fighters, they really don't know what they're talking about anyways...

MMA fighters, the Dog Brothers, and similar types of fighters are a very rare group of people... They use their skills in actual fighting, in real time speed... Not point sparring or just bash each other with sticks... You can see the footwork happen, the techniques, the timing... All in real time... Those are real standards...

So that guy in that article has a very narrow opinion about "standards"... Standards is about your skills and how are you able to use those skills in real time and situations... Not belts, certificates signed by some guy, or traditions...

[The Phalanx]

Greg.
You have to remember that the FMA was one of the original mixed martial arts and was in practice centuries before MMA made it's appearance on the american shores..Oh wait, history of Jean Lafite and his band of buccaneers from the Caribbean/Atlantic had Pinoys on his ships and they hid out in the Bayous of Louisiana and that area before it was even part of America... I stand corrected, the MMA of the Philippines aka blade and sword use were part of american folklore back in the early 19th century..

My mistake and I stand corrected

Well, we can also take it back farther too Bill into the Ancient Greeks... Pankration is considered by many to be the original MMA event...

[silat1]

The first mixed martial art can be traced back to the apes when they first learned that by grabbing and swinging a stick, you had a major advantage over others.. Remember Samson had the use of a jawbone of an ass when he fought.. The Jawbone of an ass is like using an Igorot headhunting axe, guaranteed to give you a splitting headache when used properly..

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

I disagree and I don't.

"They use their skills in actual fighting".

Yes and no. They use their skills and put it on the line far more than the "McDojo" people you refer to. There is no hypothetical "My style is better than yours" or hypothetical BS. Get in and get it done or get knocked / tapped out. End of discussion.

Regarding "realness" if somebody tries to grapple me I am going to stick my thumb as far as possible into their eye. If the opportunity presents itself I will also bite them.

That's what I'd like to do. Why? Because in my experience street-fights are very rarely 1-on-1. The second you go down it's likely that other "less brave" people will join in, smelling blood. There is no protective cage around you. There is no referee.

Whether I could actually do this is another story. I'm probably too nice. Who knows. For me though those "Rare" breed of people are the ones who will just go and go and you will need a tank to stop them.

Regarding the other content of this thread it's all a question of balance. If you're a young, single man training all the time is great. If you have a family you need to spend some quality time with them. It's all percentages. You can say "What if you meet Goliath?" etc, etc. The chances of that are probably 0.01 percent. The chance of your wife leaving you because you've spent all your free time with sweaty men is probably exponentially higher!

Having said that the instructors that I admire have all made sacrifices and training is like an obsession with them. I was speaking to somebody recently about a GM who was admitted to hospital with cancer and had part of his stomach removed. He was still practicing stuff in his hospital bed!

Let's put it another way. You are spending hours and hours of study. You could get a doctorate or something. How long do fights last? 30 seconds? What's a big number of fights? 50? So 1,500 seconds all your life. That's 25 minutes. For '000s of hours. Unless your training to be a UFC fighter / soldier / cop / bodyguard that is. Are you?

So the "payback" in those terms is dis-proportional. That's why I've heard and believe that there is more to gain from the study of these arts than just fighting. Be it spiritual, cultutal, fitness, camaraderie etc, etc. And yes, traditions. There probably wouldn't be any martial arts without traditions and the passing down of knowledge from family member to family member...

Regarding belts and rank it's a balance too. There are many killers in Tondo who haven't had a day of martial arts training. Should we be like them and get them to teach us how? Also, who charts your progress? What makes you identifiable to the layman as an instructor? What gives the weak-willed motivation?

Just some thoughts...

Simon.

[Raul]

Very well said Simon.

[The Phalanx]

Yes, there are people who have made sacrifices in their personal lives because they trained too much... I know some who had...

There are people in this world who enjoy training just because they enjoy it more than anything else... And they would make sacrifices just for it... If your wife wants to leave you cause you trained too much, then she shouldn't have married you in the first place... She should know that even before you got married...

As far meeting Goliath in a street fight, the chance is always there... There are people who workout and very conditioned... And also, alcohol and/or drugs loses all inhibitions...

Do you have to be a UFC fighter to train hard? No... But train hard regardless... If some are just in it for the traditions and history-that's up to them... But they should not expect to win a fight against a conditioned individual... I've met some people in my old neighborhood who never had any MA training but can run over anyone that does due to their aggressiveness and strength alone... Mix that with some alcohol and drugs you got a juggernaut on your hands...

Martial Arts is about fighting first and foremost... That's why it's called Martial Arts... It's a fighting art... You can throw in traditions and stuff if you want... But fighting is the core of Martial Arts... Without it, it's nothing... It's just an art... Because there is nothing martial about it...

So when people talk about MA standards... I ask; standards regarding what?

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

So by your rationale you should add drugs and alcohol to your training regime to be the "Ultimate Fighter"? :uhoh:


If your wife wants to leave you cause you trained too much, then she shouldn't have married you in the first place... She should know that even before you got married...

You are obviously not married!:whip1:

[greg808]

I don't think he's married.

[junior eskrimador]

Hahaha, good one. Well, his from the Island so Pakalolo (weed) and Budwiser (Hawaii's number 1 beer) is it for the "Ultimate Fighter". And for hands on training to test his skill, going to night club and road rage would also qaulify him for the "Ultimate Fighter".

[The Phalanx]

You guys do your thing and I'll do mine...

And as far as that 31 yr. old Karate master's comments about diluted non-sense... I don't agree with it... Just because some master in Japan signs your certificate does not make you a better fighter...

Exactly what does it mean when something is diluted or watered down anyways? I keep hearing that too many times yet noone really cared to elaborate on the subject...

[junior eskrimador]

I guess some people don't see the TRADITIONAL side of MA. What is your reason to join a FMA/MA group. To better yourself as a person or to fight someone. As for me, I wanted to better myself, imporve life, learn my culture through the art, and to get my family involve.

I read the article and the Karate master has been practicing since childhood. Your dogging TRADITIONAL so much. I don't know if you know this but some of the great MMA fighters has been to TRADITIONAL MA and has learned TRADITIONAL MA and combined their skills to what is now called you guested it MMA (Mix Martial Arts).

Diluted/watered down, come on now. Do we really need to go there or you just wanted to here it from someone else. Ok, here goes, my personal point.

Diluted/watered down: One that is not the orginal style/form that has been modified from the original state; filtered.

There is nothing wrong with that. That is how other styles get formed. It does take away from the TRADITIONAL STYLE of what one person will learn.

[The Phalanx]

I guess some people don't see the TRADITIONAL side of MA. What is your reason to join a FMA/MA group. To better yourself as a person or to fight someone. As for me, I wanted to better myself, imporve life, learn my culture through the art, and to get my family involve.

I read the article and the Karate master has been practicing since childhood. Your dogging TRADITIONAL so much. I don't know if you know this but some of the great MMA fighters has been to TRADITIONAL MA and has learned TRADITIONAL MA and combined their skills to what is now called you guested it MMA (Mix Martial Arts).

Diluted/watered down, come on now. Do we really need to go there or you just wanted to here it from someone else. Ok, here goes, my personal point.

Diluted/watered down: One that is not the orginal style/form that has been modified from the original state; filtered.

There is nothing wrong with that. That is how other styles get formed. It does take away from the TRADITIONAL STYLE of what one person will learn.

I don't have a problem with people doing traditional MA... But your idea of diluted does not make any sense to me... To me it's a different meaning... Diluted to me means when schools don't teach a student how to take a hit, when they focus more on kata than any actual fighting, when fighting is not the main focus... That is what diluted means to me... Not about tradition... Muay Thai is traditional and they produce great fighters...

I don't believe in "pure" arts... I don't think there really such thing as "pure" anyways... If you dissect the history of each art, you can always trace it to another art... Examples; Karate came from Kung Fu, Muay Thai came from Krabi Krabong, BJJ came from Judo, and so on...

I also don't believe in staying "pure" because it doesn't make any sense... You need to learn other techniques to become a better fighter... Yes, I said fighter... That is what Martial Arts is, it means fighting... Hence why the word Martial is used... And why I strongly believe that fighting should be the main focus of any MA school than anything else...

You see, to me combat evolves... I always see myself to learn new things to add to my arsenal... I don't limit myself to FMA alone... MMA is a great example of me wanting to learn new things...

I joined an FMA group for many reasons... Not so much for tradition but I like to know what other peoples POVs are on fighting methods... Also it is a very practical way of fighting... I also am not limiting myself on doing FMA... I am planning to join BJJ and/or Judo also... Maybe even Muay Thai in the future... I like to learn other methods... Isn't that what Bruce Lee also believed in and what the JKD concept is about? That nothing is written in stone?

I joined MA so I can learn how to fight... To learn how to defend myself... I don't see MA as a form to better myself as a person... I really don't need MA to learn how to do that...

[Ares326]

To Phalanx,

My mentor used to say, "If you are busy rowing the boat, you don't have time to rock it."

[junior eskrimador]

Phalanx quoted: "I joined an FMA group for many reasons... Not so much for tradition but I like to know what other peoples POVs are on fighting methods... Also it is a very practical way of fighting... I also am not limiting myself on doing FMA... I am planning to join BJJ and/or Judo also... Maybe even Muay Thai in the future... I like to learn other methods... Isn't that what Bruce Lee also believed in and what the JKD concept is about? That nothing is written in stone?

I joined MA so I can learn how to fight... To learn how to defend myself... I don't see MA as a form to better myself as a person... I really don't need MA to learn how to do that..."

This is what I see; I WANT TO BE...A MMA FIGHTER...I PLAN TO LEARN BJJ...JUDO...MUAY THAI. Dam, lots of arts, nothing wrong with that but don't you think you should gain knowledge, skills, and put years in an art first before exploring. Some people might disagree but this is how I feel. As for me I also want to learn other arts but at the same time I want to be proficient in one art before moving to the next art. Why, so I know how to differentiate between the two or more styles. Plus, it may be easy to add to your ARSENAL as you call it. I'm not as GIFTED as you PHALANX and A HARD CORE FIGHTER AS YOU. You talk about fighting a lot. Quote: " I joined MA so I can learn how to fight", this is an easy fix, DON'T GO OUT TO FIND A FIGHT. A FIGHT WILL FIND YOU BUT IF YOU STAY OUT OF TROUBLE AND BE HUMBLE WHY WORRY ABOUT FIGHTING. QUOTE: " To learn how to defend myself", true and I don't disagree with you at all but the way you put it is your doing it for the wrong reason. To learn how to fight. All styles is a fighting style is depends on the practitioner. One style is not better then the other or the way its learned does not determine the way a person/student will do on the street. It depends how will they react to the situation.
Phalanx, you have good input but some inputs are non-sense and it shows that you have no respect for other arts. All arts, style, tradition, non-tradition are to be respected regardless if you don't see it fit. That is way there are many arts today because of that. They make their own style that they see fit. I don't disrespect them, I give them respect because they have come out with their own style and willing to share it with everyone. Don't burn your bridges it's very hard to cross back. There are some on FMA that know you by your real name and know where you train.
Be good, be wise, be respectful. I know it's your opinion and there is nothing wrong with it but sometime opinions should be kept to yourself.
Train hard, be safe, and god bless

[The Phalanx]

Phalanx quoted: "I joined an FMA group for many reasons... Not so much for tradition but I like to know what other peoples POVs are on fighting methods... Also it is a very practical way of fighting... I also am not limiting myself on doing FMA... I am planning to join BJJ and/or Judo also... Maybe even Muay Thai in the future... I like to learn other methods... Isn't that what Bruce Lee also believed in and what the JKD concept is about? That nothing is written in stone?

I joined MA so I can learn how to fight... To learn how to defend myself... I don't see MA as a form to better myself as a person... I really don't need MA to learn how to do that..."

This is what I see; I WANT TO BE...A MMA FIGHTER...I PLAN TO LEARN BJJ...JUDO...MUAY THAI. Dam, lots of arts, nothing wrong with that but don't you think you should gain knowledge, skills, and put years in an art first before exploring. Some people might disagree but this is how I feel. As for me I also want to learn other arts but at the same time I want to be proficient in one art before moving to the next art. Why, so I know how to differentiate between the two or more styles. Plus, it may be easy to add to your ARSENAL as you call it. I'm not as GIFTED as you PHALANX and A HARD CORE FIGHTER AS YOU. You talk about fighting a lot. Quote: " I joined MA so I can learn how to fight", this is an easy fix, DON'T GO OUT TO FIND A FIGHT. A FIGHT WILL FIND YOU BUT IF YOU STAY OUT OF TROUBLE AND BE HUMBLE WHY WORRY ABOUT FIGHTING. QUOTE: " To learn how to defend myself", true and I don't disagree with you at all but the way you put it is your doing it for the wrong reason. To learn how to fight. All styles is a fighting style is depends on the practitioner. One style is not better then the other or the way its learned does not determine the way a person/student will do on the street. It depends how will they react to the situation.
Phalanx, you have good input but some inputs are non-sense and it shows that you have no respect for other arts. All arts, style, tradition, non-tradition are to be respected regardless if you don't see it fit. That is way there are many arts today because of that. They make their own style that they see fit. I don't disrespect them, I give them respect because they have come out with their own style and willing to share it with everyone. Don't burn your bridges it's very hard to cross back. There are some on FMA that know you by your real name and know where you train.
Be good, be wise, be respectful. I know it's your opinion and there is nothing wrong with it but sometime opinions should be kept to yourself.
Train hard, be safe, and god bless

JE, you are taking what I said out of context... I am not planning to be an MMA fighter, I am not "hardcore", and I don't go out finding fights... I did not say that anywhere... You are assuming... Mistranslating what I said...

My plan on training is not to be a pro fighter or anything like that... Just for the love of training and learning how to fight... To learn how to fight... Not to go and find a fight or make trouble to the next guy... I am not the Cobra Kai student from Karate Kid looking to harm people... I am the least hardcore person you will ever meet... So idk what you're talking about...

Please do not translate my words into something else...

That is why I love to train, I love learning new things... Learning different fighting methods... And when you say I train for the wrong reasons, what are the wrong reasons you're talking about? I mean I don't go out and make trouble or harm random people... I keep what I learn at where I'm learning it... So what wrong reasons are you talking about?

If people know who I am what am I worried about? People who know me know who I am and what I'm about... I don't have to worry about anything... Unless you're trying to imply that someone will come and do harm to me cause of my opinions... But that is another topic...

My opinions are my opinions yes... I respect yours and everybody elses here... And I do get a little charismatic with mines... If I offended anyone, I apologize... But I am not the type to be quiet... I am not a quiet person... I am the type that gets very uncomfortable with silence...

And please stay on topic... This thread is not about me... I was stating my opinions about the Karate master's opinions about diluting martial arts... Thank You...

[junior eskrimador]

True, the thread is not about you. And yes the topic is about the Karate Master that you gave no respect to. He talks about tradition and you bashed traditional MA. Should I go and find the comment you stated and quote it. You don't need to be silence but some time silence is the best medicine. The other thing is implying if someone want to do harm, that is what you ASSUME. What I implied was your name might get out and the group that you train with might be unhappy of your comments. Have you ask them what they think. I believe one of your fighters was trained in traditional FMA and now has broaden his MA knowledge. I myself is learning traditional FMA that was tought to my instructors from his instructor the same way it was leaned. It might have variations but is still considered traditional. We could go on and on with this.

FYI, I think everyone from here has trained in a traditional FMA school/style. Some schools are less formal then others but has trained traditional. If you spent more time in one you should have seen and learned from the instructor.

Another thing "wala'au I nui".

PM if you have questions or want to talk.

[Ares326]

To Phalanx,

Learn how to flow and not be jagged. This is one of the reasons to train under old school, traditional arts and respect the Grandmasters and Masters that teaches it because you become part of a tradition that's been handed down for centuries. This is why some practitioners search for and train under traditional arts and gain the knowledge, experience, and be part of a legacy; this is what you call, "Mana." And if you are just a fighter without a background or a state of brotherhood, then you're not a whole. But if you do and understand what was taught then you become a better man because you understand the conditions of your abilities and the gift that's bestowed upon you. This applies not only in martial science, but everyday life. "You must read the entire book to comprehend its content and interpret what was written; only then, you'll be a wiser man."

[Brian R. VanCise]

One persons tradition is another persons modern and vice versa. http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Let's talk and discuss in a reasonable manner folks!