Balintawak weight distribution

[Black Grass]

Hi as a adjunct to to DT's post of living students of GM Bacon.

I have a 2 part question.

When was the weight distribution principles (weight on stick side for lack of a better description) developed? I think it was after his prison term. Can any one verify this.

Also who of GM Bacon's students teaches this way? As far as I can tell the following do:

1) Ted Buot - based on what I learned from Dave Hatch a student of his

2) Serge Acel - based on information from Warrior arts of the Phillipines interview

3) Bobby Tambina - Based on tapes I have seen of him


Vince
aka Black Grass

[armas]

Ver Villasin teaches the same way. Plus he emphasizes "center balance" as you are well distributing your weight on both legs as you fight. Then as you strike you put your body into the strike.

[Balintawak]

Hi as a adjunct to to DT's post of living students of GM Bacon.

I have a 2 part question.

When was the weight distribution principles (weight on stick side for lack of a better description) developed? I think it was after his prison term. Can any one verify this.

Also who of GM Bacon's students teaches this way? As far as I can tell the following do:

1) Ted Buot - based on what I learned from Dave Hatch a student of his

2) Serge Acel - based on information from Warrior arts of the Phillipines interview

3) Bobby Tambina - Based on tapes I have seen of him


Vince
aka Black Grass

The weight was there to generate power in a torsion/torque way of popping the hips.

It was before the Prison term of GM Bacon. As this is how both GM Remy and also Manong (GM) Ted learned it in the 50's and 60's.

Best regards

Rich

[Rocky]

If you take a good look at Balintawak ( GM Bacons ) obviously he was ahead of his time his fighting stance is very simular to that of a boxer's, which is why GM Buot picked up on it so quickly the only other form of martial arts GM Buot ever did was boxing, because boxing is a live action art and has an oponent that is always trying to hit you, footwork becomes very important. If you look at the stagnate ways of many MA's in the 70's and 80 they practiced these stances that we not practical for fighting of course everyone thought they new what they were doing, until the UFC opened up and low and behold how do almost all fighters in the UFC fight now????? Yep when on their feet they use a stance very simular to boxing, because by keeping your weight under you and in control you can generate power from the feet which is exactically what Balintawak does, massive power in the smallest of space. If you were ever able to actually spar with GM Presas you would notice his feet were always under him and the power he generated in a short distance I have not seen matched to this day. By keeping the feet under you, your upper body can bob and weave creating the time and space you need to create openings. Balintawak was the first art I ever studied where they were constantly CREATING TIME AND SPACE, pretty smart for a bunch of stick swingers!!

Rocky

[Soncen]

Hi!!! to all,

It's nice to be here. I am from Mandaue City, Cebu, Philippines a member of the Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club under the leadership of Teofilo V. Roma.

My teacher Teofilo V. Roma one of the best students of Grandmaster Teofilo A. Velez established the Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club in Mandaue City in 1982 known to be the yellow color code chapter division from among the twelve subgroups that comprises the Teovel Balintawak group headed by Grandmaster Teofilo A. Velez after it was subdivided into twelve different chapter divisions. The Teovel Balintawak group was a splinter group that had just separated from the Balintawak Arnis International under the leadership of Atty. Jose Villasin since it was established in the 1960’s. Mr. Velez was student to Atty. Villasin the student to Venancio (Anciong) Bacon the inventor of the Balintawak martial art that date’s back in the 1950’s.

Anciong Bacon had tested the efficiency of his new martial art when he was involved in about a hundred “juego todo” fights (arranged fights) and several surprise attack from unknown enemies including the one that he accidentally killed in one occasion. He subdued all his enemies and never heard of him lose even a single fight. But prior to discovery of the Balintawak fighting system, Anciong had already learned some skills from a certain Lorenzo Saavedra.

I have so many stories to tell and I hope I would be allowed to post it here. Thanks!!!

Wilson Ceniza

[arnisador]

Wing Chun uses the 'weight back' principle as Balintawak sometimes does. I see so many similarities between Wing Chun and the FMA!

[monkey]

I have an old 8mill showing the 3 masters of Balintawak.I also have 1-6 Bobby Tobosa & some footage of Ramond Tabosas school or students under Michael Mulconery.Its nice to see arts like that.Good historical video archives.

[Robert Klampfer]

Monkey:

Do you have a way to digitize the 8mm footage and, would you be willing to share it? I'm a student of Bobby Taboada and we're always trying to collect copies of such old footage and photos, as there isn't a lot of it available.

Regards,

Robert

[Apollo]

Gentlemen.
We have removed several posts concerning tape trading.
Please be aware that our rules clearly state:
"- NO selling or distribution or discussion of illegal or copyrighted materials on this board. Any posts that encourage illegal intent will be removed and the account disabled. Discussion of P2P networks, File Sharing, Bootlegs, Warez or related is not allowed here."

Tape trading is included in this policy. It is illegal, under US and International Copyright law to distribute copyrighted materials, without the permission of the copyright holder.

[Robert Klampfer]

Apollo:

Sorry for any confusion. I'm a producer of Bobby Taboada's instructional video series. The exchanging of the instructional videos for the archival footage is for and with the permission of Bobby Taboada, the copyright holder. Monkey and I took the conversation elsewhere (email) so as not to become embroiled in any allegations of copyright infringement or run afoul of forum rules.

Regards,

Robert

[Balintawak]

Apollo:

Sorry for any confusion. I'm a producer of Bobby Taboada's instructional video series. The exchanging of the instructional videos for the archival footage is for and with the permission of Bobby Taboada, the copyright holder. Monkey and I took the conversation elsewhere (email) so as not to become embroiled in any allegations of copyright infringement or run afoul of forum rules.

Regards,

Robert


Robert,

In this case from your words, which I do not doubt, it is ok for you and only you as the producer and with the permission of Bobby Taboada, there is no copyright issue.

But it is our policy to not allow it, as to keep ourselves out of any issues over rights of products.

So this time no harm no foul on your behalf. :)

Thank you for your understanding.

Rich Parsons
Balintawak Moderator

[monkey]

I personaly am glad that this is your policy.I do own my collection & rites to.Also Im aware of who dose what for prodution & telecom.This is video editing-producing ect at its best.Iwill not break the F.B.I. code 501-506 regarguardless of what some so called tape traders say.What I have for videos ,they never will hence they post things to try to black ball me.The true people know My collection of over 200hrs Inosanto-over500 verious arts Are mine.The One That will exspess this also & have a collection 2nd as large as my.Is Fred Deguburge.Niether Him nor I break the codes.Like I said Im glad, as this is again another great way to suport the arts & my rites to what I have.Keep up the great work.You can rest easy knowing Only authersied reproductions will be made.Mabuhay & Balisalamet

[Apollo]

Robert,
Thank you for your understanding. Our concern is to both protect the rights (and often income) of the instructors, as well as keep ourselves from legal headaches.

Tom,
I'm not familiar with this 501-506 thing, but am familiar with the tape trading "ethics", etc. Our policy is, we err on the side of caution here.

Of course, on the subject of videos, we are also always happy to archive and provide an means to view, provided its clear we can do so.

[monkey]

The 501-506 are the F.B.I. codes & I have many letters from Dinsney-Columbia & Rca for reporting such .The code states as such (Federal law provides servere civil & criminal penalties for the unautherized,distribution,exhibition of copyrighted motion pictures in any medium. -title 17 united states code section 501 & 506)This stipulates that no part or whole can be shown -or sold with out written permition.Senior Officer for Intel. Tom Carnes (medal awarded to me by Pres. Bush)& has his signature on it.Nice gold medal.

[Marvin Diem]

The 501-506 are the F.B.I. codes & I have many letters from Dinsney-Columbia & Rca for reporting such .The code states as such (Federal law provides servere civil & criminal penalties for the unautherized,distribution,exhibition of copyrighted motion pictures in any medium. -title 17 united states code section 501 & 506)This stipulates that no part or whole can be shown -or sold with out written permition.Senior Officer for Intel. Tom Carnes (medal awarded to me by Pres. Bush)& has his signature on it.Nice gold medal.

I'm sorry, I don't know if I read that correctly, did you say that you got a medal from Pres. Bush?

[monkey]

Yes While I did Army training -(footage of me on martial talk--serch monkey)which shows me training task force,I receive a medal that is a gold coin shape.It states on 1 side Mdedal of Merit then picture of the White House & George Bush signature.The other side has Republican Presidential Task Force.I also Got a patch that states 13th Intelligence SO(Senior Officer).Then a triangle with 13 stars in it a Wheel with wings & under that it state PRIMUM ECS VIDEMUS.Not bad for an 8 year vet.This had nothing to do with the Letters from Disney ect. but I did get more Respect from the investigators When I stated the video pirates & what they were doing.My rank I made Staff Sgt..

[arnisador]

Please, let's return to the topic at hand--Balintawak and its concepts of weight distribution!

[Pike]

All Balintawak is primed for full power
weight back s good for begin training

50-50 always ready to meet the next attack

pike

[arnisador]

All Balintawak is primed for full power
weight back s good for begin training


But not for more advanced students, you mean?

[Brock]

There's slightly more weight on your front foot. You lift you're back heel slightly.

[Pike]

Hi Arnisador & brockhttp://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Students become versed in the thread of training the basic principles our
body structure is the subject of advancement
The advanced structure knows when they are 50-50 primed ready to go
Most of us have the mentality mechanics to sit back on defence
from our original arts (me = karate & boxing )


Also with one heel raised 50-50 is still possible
(never stops hurting the quads though)http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif


Pike

[Rich Parsons]

I have quoted the last few posts here to make some points and express my point of view.


All Balintawak is primed for full power
weight back s good for begin training

50-50 always ready to meet the next attack

pike

The weight is on the side of the body that the strike is coming from. i.e. right leg forward, stick in right hand, striking a Balintawak number one, forehand to the head, the weight is on the front right leg. Now if for some reason the left leg is forward and the same strike is made, the weight is still on the right leg while it is back. There is no number, if just is more than 50%. You use the amount required to obtain the proper body mechanics and position to be able to strike the opponent.

The 50-50 is a good way to reference where one is in a block situation as the combative can then go in either direction without resetting their weight and telegraphing their area of attack.


But not for more advanced students, you mean?

The difference between the beginning students and the advanced students is not in the weight, but in the body and leg facing. In the beginning the student learns to step and face the incoming strike and then learns to block and counter using proper body mechanics and timing. Later one learns to just turn the upper body to face the stike, so now no leg movement is required (* unless one needs room and time to block or the attack is coing at the knee *), to block and counter. And the even later yet, the student is taught to not have to change the upper body facing and to be able to strike anywhere this way with out telegraphing the position of the next attack.



There's slightly more weight on your front foot. You lift you're back heel slightly.

This is true. As in the case where one is always stepping to face the cane or that just happens to be the position one is in. The rear heel may come up to properly chamber the hips and prepare proper body mechanics for the strike.


Hi Arnisador & brockhttp://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Students become versed in the thread of training the basic principles our
body structure is the subject of advancement
The advanced structure knows when they are 50-50 primed ready to go
Most of us have the mentality mechanics to sit back on defence
from our original arts (me = karate & boxing )


Also with one heel raised 50-50 is still possible
(never stops hurting the quads though)http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif


Pike

While I agree that 50-50 appearance is possible with the heel up and that one can be in a chambered positions with a 50-50 appearance, but to maximize the strike it must be biased, from my experience with my instructor and myself. I agree to those outside watching they may not have seen the 51-49 or 55-45 difference, but I believe from my experience and teaching it is there. (* And yes the Quads with the knees bent will get a work out and one may even get the leg shakes from a class in such a position. :) *)

My only other training being another FMA that also had the GM who studied Balintawak, I do not understand your comment about sitting back on defense. I understanding sitting on your post or stool behind you, but not sure how the defense ties in as you mentioned it relationship to other arts.

Thanks

[Robert Klampfer]

I think the perception of a constant 50-50 weight distribution may come from an interpretation of the term "center balance" as we use it in Bobby Taboada's teaching method, which I believe is Pike's pedigree, too.

Center balance does not necessarily mean a 50-50 weight distribution between both feet. It refers to exactly what it says: maintaining balance towards the center, which requires constant adjustment of weight distribution as one moves. More specifically, center balance refers to not letting one's chest (weight) go (lean) forward of the knees. If one's weight is forward of the knees, not only are they off-balance to the front, they can't generate power to attack or defend.

Robert

[Pike]

thank you for your theory
Rich
Yes the the perception of 50-50 is for the opponent but we strive to
be 50-50 all of practice to if we fight then it becomes the part (ok)

we can still be forward and be defensive and in power position
if you understand the structual position

and strike from all positions

Pike

[Rich Parsons]

I think the perception of a constant 50-50 weight distribution may come from an interpretation of the term "center balance" as we use it in Bobby Taboada's teaching method, which I believe is Pike's pedigree, too.

Center balance does not necessarily mean a 50-50 weight distribution between both feet. It refers to exactly what it says: maintaining balance towards the center, which requires constant adjustment of weight distribution as one moves. More specifically, center balance refers to not letting one's chest (weight) go (lean) forward of the knees. If one's weight is forward of the knees, not only are they off-balance to the front, they can't generate power to attack or defend.

Robert

Robert,

Thank you for the information.

[Rich Parsons]

thank you for your theory
Rich
Yes the the perception of 50-50 is for the opponent but we strive to
be 50-50 all of practice to if we fight then it becomes the part (ok)

we can still be forward and be defensive and in power position
if you understand the structual position

and strike from all positions

Pike

From the Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary Copyright 1996
Theory - 1) A coherent group of general propositions used as priniples of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. 2 a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. 3) Math a bosy of principles, theorems, or the like belonging to one subject: number theory. 4) the branch of a science or art that deals with principles, or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory 5) a particular conception or view of something to be done or of a method of doing it; a system of rules or principles. 6) contemplation or speculation. 7) guess or conjecture.

Dear sir,

Which of the above meanings of the word Theory did you mean? For I cannot find one that is not at least a snipe at me or a direct insult.

But to the point at hand, I have a theory that you are not as trained nor as skilled as you might think you are or want to be. Even with the difference of terms and vocabulary one could see that there is more than one family branch, and therefore some variations may be in existence. I accept this but if you insist on it being one way only, then we will just have to see, if I or others are willing to listen or reply to anything you have to say.

Regards

[Robert Klampfer]

Man, Rich... rough night? :beer2:
You were a bit rough on Pike, there.:kicknuts:
Pike:

I too was a bit confused by "the perception of 50-50 is for the opponent but we strive to be 50-50 all of practice to if we fight then it becomes the part (ok)". Can you explain this more clearly?

Was this in response to my post: "we can still be forward and be defensive and in power position if you understand the structual position
and strike from all positions"?

Robert

[Rich Parsons]

Man, Rich... rough night? :beer2:
You were a bit rough on Pike, there.:kicknuts:
Pike:

I too was a bit confused by "the perception of 50-50 is for the opponent but we strive to be 50-50 all of practice to if we fight then it becomes the part (ok)". Can you explain this more clearly?

Was this in response to my post: "we can still be forward and be defensive and in power position if you understand the structual position
and strike from all positions"?

Robert


Robert,

If I offended you or other students of Balintawak, that was not my intention. I was trying to understand if we (* Pike and I *) have a failure to communicate or is he just being rude and insulting.

Part of the problem I have is that, people are teaching this art, and some of them are very skilled and others may not be. As from my other posts here and on other sites about Balintawak, I have no problem with anyone adding or subtracting to a curriculum, just so long as they educate those they teach. I have no problems with instructors or senior students using different verbage if it helps others learn for that may be the right word to make the connection for them.

I do have problems with the internet warriors who know a little or some and then try to spread incomplete or mis-information as fact. It cannot be stopped, for that is all about human perception but, there is and was no reason for being rude in a simple discussion, no matter how educated the word may seem.

So Robert, I respect you and the organization you are with and GM Bobby Taboada. I did not mean to cause you or others grief. But I was curious and wondering about his snide remark.

Thank you
:asian:

[Brian R. VanCise]

Okay I am not a practitioner of Balintawak but I do find it interesting to watch both in person and on video. My question then would be how could you always be 50-50 weight distribution. If you have to move, you have a transferance of weight and are no longer 50-50. Certainly all practitioners of Balintawak move and do not stand still. (based on what I have witnessed first hand)

However having observed people in motion they are very centered close to around 50-50 when not in motion.

These are just my observations and I am curious to hear some Balintawak practitioners opinions as well.

[Robert Klampfer]

Robert,

If I offended you or other students of Balintawak, that was not my intention. I was trying to understand if we (* Pike and I *) have a failure to communicate or is he just being rude and insulting.

Part of the problem I have is that, people are teaching this art, and some of them are very skilled and others may not be. As from my other posts here and on other sites about Balintawak, I have no problem with anyone adding or subtracting to a curriculum, just so long as they educate those they teach. I have no problems with instructors or senior students using different verbage if it helps others learn for that may be the right word to make the connection for them.

I do have problems with the internet warriors who know a little or some and then try to spread incomplete or mis-information as fact. It cannot be stopped, for that is all about human perception but, there is and was no reason for being rude in a simple discussion, no matter how educated the word may seem.

So Robert, I respect you and the organization you are with and GM Bobby Taboada. I did not mean to cause you or others grief. But I was curious and wondering about his snide remark.

Thank you
:asian:

Rich, you certainly didn't offend me. I was just razzing you a bit since you put the Internet version of the rochambeau on Pike (http://www.wavsite.com/sounds/42369/south05.wav). :wink2:

I'm sure that Pike's a big boy and, if he's able to post things to the general public on the Internet, he should be able to explain himself when asked. We're a self-policing crowd and if he were to come out with anything too silly, I'm sure his instructor would have a chat with him; much the same as Bobby would have a chat with me if I did the same...
:whip:

All the best,

Robert

[Robert Klampfer]

Okay I am not a practitioner of Balintawak but I do find it interesting to watch both in person and on video. My question then would be how could you always be 50-50 weight distribution. If you have to move, you have a transferance of weight and are no longer 50-50. Certainly all practitioners of Balintawak move and do not stand still. (based on what I have witnessed first hand)

However having observed people in motion they are very centered close to around 50-50 when not in motion.

These are just my observations and I am curious to hear some Balintawak practitioners opinions as well.

Brian:

I think you're spot on with your observations. Moving is a constant process of weight transfer. (Last time I checked, Balintawak wasn't an exception to the laws of physics. :wink2: )

Yes, while stationary, balance is maintained to the center. Even with the heel of one foot raised slightly, weight distribution is approximately 50-50.

As I'm sure you've noticed, there are no forward stances, back stances, etc. in Balintawak. Footwork in Balintawak is predicated on a natural stepping motion and distance. Rich made a good point in that although someone watching may not notice a 55-45 weight distribution, it doesn't change the fact that it's still there. What you shouldn't see in Balintawak is anything like a 75-25 weight distribution.

Robert

[Rich Parsons]

Rich, you certainly didn't offend me. I was just razzing you a bit since you put the Internet version of the rochambeau on Pike (http://www.wavsite.com/sounds/42369/south05.wav). :wink2:

I'm sure that Pike's a big boy and, if he's able to post things to the general public on the Internet, he should be able to explain himself when asked. We're a self-policing crowd and if he were to come out with anything too silly, I'm sure his instructor would have a chat with him; much the same as Bobby would have a chat with me if I did the same...
:whip:

All the best,

Robert

Well with the Drink Icon I figured you were ribbing me and giving me my due ;) I liked your link and it is funny. :rofl: :lol:

[arnisador]

I think you're spot on with your observations. Moving is a constant process of weight transfer. (Last time I checked, Balintawak wasn't an exception to the laws of physics. :wink2: )

That having been said, I do understand that Balintawak tends to step relatively less than most other systems, due to the very close range at which it is applied. (Of course, in most FMAs I think that s you get better you can get away with less stepping and more body shifting.) As I read these posts, I wonder if that is part of the reason for these nuanced discussions of a hard-to-measure 55/45 weight spilt.

[Robert Klampfer]

...I do understand that Balintawak tends to step relatively less than most other systems, due to the very close range at which it is applied... I wonder if that is part of the reason for these nuanced discussions of a hard-to-measure 55/45 weight spilt.

You know, I hadn't thought about it until I read your post but, to anyone outside of Balintawak, I guess it would seem like splitting hairs over 50-50 vs 55-45. (Balintawak: those picky people. :D )

I think with experience one does become sensitive to subtle changes in balance - your own and your opponent's - especially at close range where both the weapon and empty hand are in play. The pushing, pulling and off-balancing found in Balintawak looks to capitalize on an opponent's changes in balance. The short stepping and weaving motions in Balintawak can also provide a bit of defensive trickery: feigning a shift in balance to invite an attempted push, pull, or trip with every intention of countering it if it does come.

As an aside, a big difference between Balintawak footwork and that of many other systems is the distinctive lack of the v-pattern footwork that's synonymous with most of the Filipino arts.

Robert

[Pike]

I am not used to upsetting people face to face or in any other way

i have re-read my post and it was the wrong thing to sayhttp://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon11.gif
i wish no dis respect of any person in fma
and if i did offend mr parsons please except my apologies

the thing is my enthusiasm and passion for balintawak
my thoughts seem to flow quicker than my typing skills can keep up with

my sentences may be short but i will learn to waffle on a bit more without
getting into trouble http://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon7.gif(got to remember to read what is exactly said)

there are a lot of fma people out there i can learn a lot from http://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

at present i have been hit by the runaway balintawak train
and my brain is melting at the learning and teaching side
and it is taking leaps and bounds in training at presenthttp://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

again i had no wish to offend anyone
just cannot type quick enough to keep up with the brains ramblings


sorry to reply so late bin working away

Pike

ps how do you do that quote thing at the start of post

[arnisador]

how do you do that quote thing at the start of post

The easiest way is to hit the Quote button at the bottom right of the post to which you are responding. Or, enter:

[ quote]

[ /quote]

but without the extra spaces. Here's a picture of the button in question:

[Rich Parsons]

I am not used to upsetting people face to face or in any other way


Upset maybe. Concerned yes, hence my question.



i have re-read my post and it was the wrong thing to sayhttp://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon11.gif
i wish no dis respect of any person in fma
and if i did offend mr parsons please except my apologies


Apology accepted, yet you have my respect from the first sentence.



the thing is my enthusiasm and passion for balintawak
my thoughts seem to flow quicker than my typing skills can keep up with


Your passion is quite understandable. In Balintawak and other FMA's Baiting is part of the game of play. Unfortunately many who get a little knowledge seem to think that they game on the internet is much more fun to play then the game or practice. Some do not realize they are doing it, while others do it for fun or anger or ..., .



my sentences may be short but i will learn to waffle on a bit more without
getting into trouble http://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon7.gif(got to remember to read what is exactly said)


Waffle is not the real issue. State things such as I have learned this from my instructor. This is our lineage. This gives credit to your instructor and also his/her back to GM Bacon for Balintawak. This also allows for people to then ask questions about your training and why something might seem or actually be different.




there are a lot of fma people out there i can learn a lot from http://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


I agree, even with a couple of decades of training and teaching in the FMA's I respect that people can offer me something. :)



at present i have been hit by the runaway balintawak train
and my brain is melting at the learning and teaching side
and it is taking leaps and bounds in training at presenthttp://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif


I am glad to hear this. Good training.



again i had no wish to offend anyone
just cannot type quick enough to keep up with the brains ramblings


sorry to reply so late bin working away

Pike

ps how do you do that quote thing at the start of post



Enjoy your posts here at FMATalk and as well as your training.

Thanks

[Pike]

thank you very much guys for your info and knowledge
and still learning how to use the forumhttp://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


can i ask how you guys got into fma was it from the begining or
something different ? really interested in the path people went
to arrive at fma

Thanks again http://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Pike

[arnisador]

It might be best to start a new thread for that, but please do so!

[Cruentus]

This seems like a very strange conversation to me, because there is a lot more too weight distribution then simply determining what "percent" of your body weight is on each leg.

Mobility consists of three things; 1. stepping, 2. weight shifting 3. upper body mobility (which way shoulders are facing, upper body lean, etc.).

Power for the strike is best delivered through proper "weight distribution," among other things.

I have to make a seperation between "weight shifting," which I define as changing the weight from leg to leg to move the upper body closer or further from the target (in other words, shifting my body), and "weight distribution" which I define as simply putting more weight on one leg or the other.

I feel the distinction needs to be understood because if I can change my weight distribution to my right leg to hit someone on the right side to maximize power, without significantly shifting my body in that direction. Weight distribution can be a suttle thing. Or I can choose to both change my weight distribution and weight shift, in the case of a lean and block, for example.

The point is, there seems to be a lot more to this then what can be adequetly explained on a forum; and that simply saying "50/50" or "45/55" or whatever is much too simplistic. Weight distribution changes in the fight depending on what your trying to accomplish.

This is my take on the whole thing, anyhow...

:)

Paul

[samson818]

Hello all,

Just wanted to post my thoughts on this topic.

In regards to weight distribution within our interpretation of Teovel's Baliantawak, there is more than 50-50 weight distribution.
We have 50-50, 100-0, 75-25, etc.

In my limited experience, it seems very important to be able to adjust your balance and weight placement between your feet to effectively respond to various attacks. For example, when one is weaving and evading during agak, you are very often placed in a 100-0 weight distribution on the back leg, then when utilizing your offensive tools, you can be in 100-0 on the lead leg.
Center balance (50-50) is a happy place where you can both engage defensively and offensively.

I think this statment from Mr. Janulis is very accurate:
"Weight distribution changes in the fight depending on what your trying to accomplish."

I also believe there is the more common V-stepping within the Balintawak system. In strike number 12 (forehand vertical strike down the center line), the agakee can step to the forward 45 degrees to the left, while simultaneously parrying and striking. (My apologies if my words cannot convery what I am trying to express.)
The footwork of Balintawak is more linear due to the speed of the strikes (greater emphasis on bodymovement and other things), making it harder to utilize traditional v stepping....
And it is not as emphasized as in other systems...
But it is there, maybe a little less pronounced and the the use of the angles are alot smaller since our feet are pretty close together, tight space, etc...

Just my worthless .02.

[darkpaperino]

Hello all,

Just wanted to post my thoughts on this topic.

In regards to weight distribution within our interpretation of Teovel's Baliantawak, there is more than 50-50 weight distribution.
We have 50-50, 100-0, 75-25, etc.

In my limited experience, it seems very important to be able to adjust your balance and weight placement between your feet to effectively respond to various attacks. For example, when one is weaving and evading during agak, you are very often placed in a 100-0 weight distribution on the back leg, then when utilizing your offensive tools, you can be in 100-0 on the lead leg.
Center balance (50-50) is a happy place where you can both engage defensively and offensively.

I think this statment from Mr. Janulis is very accurate:
"Weight distribution changes in the fight depending on what your trying to accomplish."

I also believe there is the more common V-stepping within the Balintawak system. In strike number 12 (forehand vertical strike down the center line), the agakee can step to the forward 45 degrees to the left, while simultaneously parrying and striking. (My apologies if my words cannot convery what I am trying to express.)
The footwork of Balintawak is more linear due to the speed of the strikes (greater emphasis on bodymovement and other things), making it harder to utilize traditional v stepping....
And it is not as emphasized as in other systems...
But it is there, maybe a little less pronounced and the the use of the angles are alot smaller since our feet are pretty close together, tight space, etc...

Just my worthless .02.

I am in a rush so: I just can agree with the posting ... we also change the weight distribution if necessary.

[mant143]

Brian:

I think you're spot on with your observations. Moving is a constant process of weight transfer. (Last time I checked, Balintawak wasn't an exception to the laws of physics. :wink2: )

Yes, while stationary, balance is maintained to the center. Even with the heel of one foot raised slightly, weight distribution is approximately 50-50.

As I'm sure you've noticed, there are no forward stances, back stances, etc. in Balintawak. Footwork in Balintawak is predicated on a natural stepping motion and distance. Rich made a good point in that although someone watching may not notice a 55-45 weight distribution, it doesn't change the fact that it's still there. What you shouldn't see in Balintawak is anything like a 75-25 weight distribution.

Robert

Hi Robert,

As what I remembered the Teovel’s Balintawak Style uses 3 balances. The all weight in the front (75-25 or 100-0), all weight in the rear (75-25 or 100-0), and the center balance the 50-50. For the students very first lesson in defending the 12 strikes he/she must learn the weight shifting with body movement. Like defending strike number 1 the student will shift from the center to the rear left leg together with the block with the body facing at least 45 degrees then push the attackers stick down together with the defenders stick chambered then response with strike number 2 together with the weight back to center.

Emphasizing the weight in the front will be shown in the advance where the 3 balances and body movements are combine. These will be inserted the groupings, hitting, pushing, pulling, pok2, pangilogs, sweeping, elbow and etc. I wish you have seen Edwardo L. Velez move and you will see what I mean. He is the instructor of your instructor Bobby Taboada I think you know that. The 3 balances and body movements are Bacon’s best weapon against bigger and stronger opponents. Off course his hand speed and timing were very good. Bacon stands about 5ft 2 inches and weighs not more than 120 pounds so he don’t rely on power. He is not as big and strong as Marc Denny of the DBs. Hope I have not offended you. I’m just sharing a little information from the Teovel’s Balintawak System curriculum because we belong to one lineage.


God Bless

[Robert Klampfer]

As what I remembered the Teovel’s Balintawak Style uses 3 balances. The all weight in the front (75-25 or 100-0), all weight in the rear (75-25 or 100-0), and the center balance the 50-50.

Yes, that differs from the way I learned. We teach balance more by feel than by specific stances or prescribed weight distribution. I suppose it all works out the same; just using a different teaching method.


I’m just sharing a little information from the Teovel’s Balintawak System curriculum because we belong to one lineage.

Yes, we do!
:cheers:

[Richard Cotterill]

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Yes, that differs from the way I learned. We teach balance more by feel than by specific stances or prescribed weight distribution.

Robert is correct the most important word to think about is feel.

Keep it simple, know when your 50/50 know when you are not!

Regards

Richard

[teovel'sBalintawak]

Robert is correct the most important word to think about is feel.

Keep it simple, know when your 50/50 know when you are not!

Regards

Richard

Richard,

You are right know it when your 50/50 or not it is a matter of positioning. But to let you know the way I was taught the 3 balances were emphasized in my very first session. That is to familiarized the body mechanics for proper positioning. Balintawak is not an art that only teach you to swing the olisi/stick then go fight. There are some finer points on it that is why it will take time for you to master it. About the term feeling we refer that to sensitivity training like stick and lefthand handling that is after hitting/pokpok/snatching pushing and pulling lesson. My teacher is the brother of Eddie Velez the instructor of one of my favorite Balintawak fighter Bobby Taboada.

Happy Holidays!