Doce Methodos 4 - Dakop Y Punyo

[Mono]

Hi everyone, this is the fourth out of 12 Threads for a detailed Discussion on the Doce Methodos of the Pekiti Tirsia Kali System I have started.

I hope these Threads will help beginners as well as long time Instructors in their understanding of the Techniques, Conceps and Principals of the Doce Methodos.

For a start I will - once again - just put some Information about the Method and some questions you can use as a guiding Idea for your own Post and Reply – to anyone who has other Thoughts and/or Questions, I am looking forward to read them…

Lets keep going…
This is the Information about the Payong taken from www.pt-go.com:
-Tapping and Punyo-Practical Infighting
-Six (6) Offense/Counter-Offense Attacks Form and Drill


Is this the way you have been taught/are learning or teaching?
Do you know the Drills/Techniques/Forms above?
How do they work / Can you describe it/them?
How do you Train/Teach them?
What do you think (have you learned) is the “Essence” of this Method?
How do you Train, this Method (how often, which Drills etc.)?
How did you Learn this Method?
Who taught it to you?
What (other) Drills and Techniques do you use to Train / Teach this Method?

What else do you know or want to tell all of us about this Method?
Etc. etc. ect.

I am very much looking forward to your answers!

Some additional Information from me:

The Dakop Y Punyo is sometimes known as Punyo Sumbrada, the „Six (6) Offense/Counter-Offense Attacks Form and Drill” is represented within the “64-Attacks” as Techniques number 26 to 31.
(A Video of the “64-Attacks” can be found at http://www.nyackfightingarts.com/videos/videos.html it is named “Abecedario Form”)

From www.pekiti.com (http://www.pekiti.com/):
Tapping against thrusts "Pangising" (a drill of 3 attacks, 3 counters, and 3 recounters but #26 to #31 in the condensed 64 Attacks) Taught with "Chekete" (direct) and "Echekete" (indirect) counter to weapon-arm pinning drills, counters and recounters.

I hope you will all contribute to this Thread – I am very much looking forward to it!

Yours,
Mono

[blindside]

While I have learned D y P, I really haven't spent much time on it. Instead we focus on the Qol demama (sp) drill, which seems to be different (and I have heard "advanced") version of D y P.

Lamont

[Mono]

While I have learned D y P, I really haven't spent much time on it. Instead we focus on the Qol demama (sp) drill, which seems to be different (and I have heard "advanced") version of D y P.

Lamont

Could you event. explain what drill thsi is - I dont think I ve ever heard that before... (maybe know it by a different Name!?)

Where do you see the Differences?

The way I learned DyP was almost the same as the Punjo Sumbrada taught in many other FMA systems, using a little different Footwork and adding some more meaning in terms of Counter-Recounter (just minor movements, no change in the pricipal Pattern, adding wristlockattack and counter etc.)

Yours,
Mono

[lhommedieu]

Often referred to as "Tappng on 5-8-9." As noted above, it can be distinguished from "Punyo Sumbrada" drills by the use of the Pekiti Tirsia Kali side-step (which tends to make it a slightly more corto drill) but also (and fundamentally) by the use of body mechanics that incorporate torsion and weight shift to give power to the strikes.

Wes Tasker and I taught a couple of seminars last year wherein he demonstrated how Dakup y Punyo should not be performed as a "tit for tat" drill (i.e. first I hit you, then you hit me, then I hit you, then you hit me...etc.) but as a demonstration of power generation, structure, alignment, etc.

There is also an espada y daga version that uses clips and counter-clips. An article that Wes wrote describing some of the applications of this version orginally appeared in FMA Digest (http://www.fmadigest.com) but can also be found here (http://www.northshoreac.com/san_miguel_eskrima/article_files/espada_y_daga.pdf) (thanks to Steve Dowd for his kind permission to reprint the article).

Best,

Steve Lamade

[blindside]

Could you event. explain what drill thsi is - I dont think I ve ever heard that before... (maybe know it by a different Name!?)

Where do you see the Differences?

I think (and I'm no authority) that the Qol drill is currently taught because it allows a flow into the contradas easier. This drill is one of the ones regularly used by those training under the Tri-V methodology, and I believe that Qol qualifies as a sub-system on its own right.

I'm afraid I won't be able to write out Qol, it is a fairly complex drill, but you can see the relationship to DyP in that its base drill offers counters to a #5 thrust, vertical punyo, and horizontal punyo, the counters to the vertical and horizontal punyo strikes are the same, the counter to the #5 is a little different, but close. Qol doesn't use the 4 walls counter to the #9 thrust, instead it uses more of a follow rather than a meet.

And yes, I know that wasn't terribly helpful. :)

Lamont

PS: You may not have been exposed to Qol at all, I found a mention here:
http://www.pekiti-tirsia.net/pag_bericht_200104_EasterOvernight.php?lang=en&soundsParam=off&file=pag_bericht_200104_EasterOvernight

[Mono]

I think (and I'm no authority) that the Qol drill is currently taught because it allows a flow into the contradas easier. This drill is one of the ones regularly used by those training under the Tri-V methodology, and I believe that Qol qualifies as a sub-system on its own right.

I'm afraid I won't be able to write out Qol, it is a fairly complex drill, but you can see the relationship to DyP in that its base drill offers counters to a #5 thrust, vertical punyo, and horizontal punyo, the counters to the vertical and horizontal punyo strikes are the same, the counter to the #5 is a little different, but close. Qol doesn't use the 4 walls counter to the #9 thrust, instead it uses more of a follow rather than a meet.

And yes, I know that wasn't terribly helpful. :)

Lamont

PS: You may not have been exposed to Qol at all, I found a mention here:
http://www.pekiti-tirsia.net/pag_bericht_200104_EasterOvernight.php?lang=en&soundsParam=off&file=pag_bericht_200104_EasterOvernight

Thanks for the Link to the PT Europe Artikle - well, that def. shows I do not know Qol so far (I ve not been to the Camp ;) ) well, lots to learn - thats the Beauty of the FMA... :)

Yours,
Mono

[Kalisong]

Qol de mama is based on draw on draw principle while dakup y punyo is based on using the three umbrellas of PTK and thrust on 5 - 8 and 9 , you thrust , I thrust, you slash, I slash.

While the methodos illustrate a very chronological sequence to understanding the old ways of how tuhon taught, it must be noted that he has evolved the art to be a lot more dynamic rather than a more technical approach , Take for example the abecedario- it's really just 12 attacks but can be extrapolated to 144 but this then becomes complex- this should be taken as possibilities and not strict techniques , it would then be no different than a style that teaches hundreds of momrized techniques.

This becomes a memorization process if it get's too technical or is based on technique for technique it 's static rather than dynamic the techniques if you look closely adresses counters based on a single attack rather than a more fluid continues attack. Dynamic training is movement and not one step techniques.

all in all i preffer the more dynamic ways of training and re visit the technical stuff once a skill development has been reached. It has been my eperience that through the technixal process we sometimes got paralysis through analysis and hit a wall in our progression. it was only through going to the source that I was able to break through the wall. But this can also be a result of my prefference of training. evreyone will find their own way.