Doce Methodos 3 - Payong

[Mono]

Hi everyone, this is the third out of 12 Threads for a detailed Discussion on the Doce Methodos of the Pekiti Tirsia Kali System I have started.

I hope these Threads will help beginners as well as long time Instructors in their understanding of the Techniques, Conceps and Principals of the Doce Methodos.

For a start I will - once again - just put some Information about the Method and some questions you can use as a guiding Idea for your own Post and Reply – to anyone who has other Thoughts and/or Questions, I am looking forward to read them…

Lets keep going…
This is the Information about the Payong taken from www.pt-go.com:
-Umbrella Counter-Offense Attacks
-Three (3) Counter-Offense Attacks Form and Drill

Is this the way you have been taught/are learning or teaching?
Do you know the Drills/Techniques/Forms above?
How do they work / Can you describe it/them?
How do you Train/Teach them?
What do you think (have you learned) is the “Essence” of this Method?
How do you Train, this Method (how often, which Drills etc.)?
How did you Learn this Method?
Who taught it to you?
What (other) Drills and Techniques do you use to Train / Teach this Method?

What else do you know or want to tell all of us about this Method?
Etc. etc. ect.

I am very much looking forward to your answers!

Some additional Information from me:
The Payong or Umbrella “Three (3) Counter-Offense Attacks Form and Drill” is the same as the Techniques 23 to 25 in the “64-Attacks”
(A Video of the “64-Attacks” can be found at http://www.nyackfightingarts.com/videos/videos.html it is named “Abecedario Form”)

More Info from me to come soon…

Still I hope you will all contribute to this Thread – I am very much looking forward to it!

Yours,
Mono

[mosplat]

some of my thoughts on the payong:

i'm comfortable with the #1 side payong,
and it has become an instinctive defense against high forehand strikes.

the check hand can initiate a possible entry/counter.
(anyone remember the dog brothers entry drills in the early tapes?)

striking a #10 or #1 after a payong may quicken and become more powerful
when using short footwork and leaning backwards while striking,
to sync and maximize power from body mechanics.
(this is a recent discovery to me..)


the #2 side payong in the abcedario i haven't payed much attention to until now,
even though it is in the abcedario and in the multiple attacks drill i know.

i realize that my instintive defense against high backhand strikes
is the high wing/initial movement in the #2 side payong.

that's all i can think of..

any thoughts?

[acdcnate]

I think all of this information should be emailed and kept private. What Tuhon has told me personally is that he does not want his art broken down into simple text for a few reasons:
1. His business is to teach, and if you put that information publicly it demeans his seminars and drives people away
2. He does not want someone trying to use an ill practiced PTK concept in real life without proper explanation, get hurt or killed, and then be liable.
3. If you can write down the method in less then 5 minutes, then you are not teaching it properly. There is always more behind "the drill" then what he teaches. This is for instructors to use
4. It creates a sense of people thinking they know the entire system. I used to train in Inosanto Kali, but I never write in that forum because I do not know anything about their style.
5. People can "steal" his technique (not the true ones because they are never written down like this), and then try to incorporate them into their style, PTK is a pure fighting system, it does not need to be blended.

I have no problems with private emails about this, but there is a reason you do not see this stuff publicly or on youtube. Just show a little respect to the men who died to make this a reality for us to train in. Don't take their knowledge and post it in a forum.

[LRC]

I`ve read all of the old post by Mono on the Doce methodos, and there is very litle information in these threads that were not directly from the old site www.pt-go.com (http://www.pt-go.com) (don`t really know if it`s on the new site as I have not checked it out much yet) so it was never that private in the first place?

And just to share my view on a fiew of your points.
1. I know his business is to teach, an mine is to learn. By reading information like this I am somewhat better prepared before a semniar or class. I don`t think it drives people away unless it sounds like crap in the first place.
2. If someone uses something from posts on the internett in real life I think no one exept himself is to be held liable.
4. I don`t know how a text like this can give a sense of mastery of a complete system? What the text should do IMHO is to be a reference for future study and training. And when you`ve had the training it`s a reference for what you need to work on more...
5. Stealing of techniques happen all the time I`m aware of this and this I can see as a reason to keep things within a group. But still his seminars for the most part is open to the public. His instuctors have open classes, and the information here were found on the official website. So if somebody is worried about getting things stolen... Hide it a little better.

Not everybody lives near an instructor or GT Gaje himself, for us it is vital to have information like this and videos to train to and get input from. This helps us grow and makes us more prepared before the next seminar or camp we are going to.

[bttcanada@videotron.ca]

Do not worry, this examination of the structure is quite different from the original one I learned many years ago. As a basic example, Mono's third of the methodos is "Payong" when in actuality it was originally just part of the first methodos "Abecedario".

Of course you can learn things in any order and organize them under any structural reference points you wish, but there is a reason that this material works the way it does and that is from the training methodology as reflected in the doce methodos.

GT Gaje has been doing this all of his life so he is a living reflection of PTK so he does not need to return to these roots, they are literally part of his being. the rest of us are not so lucky. When ever I am fortunate enough to train with GT Gaje, I see that he always seems to be able to put out a tremendous amount of energy anyway.

If you can find someone who has taken the time to learn the material then you too can learn it. Seeing it on you tube will only inspire those who are willing to work.

Philip Gelinas
Mandala Tuhon
Pekiti Tirsia Kali