I Am So Sick

[The Phalanx]

Of these keyboard warriors who roam the internet bitching about how the Dog Brothers are a bunch of red-necks who do nothing but bash each other with sticks and are not true Martial Artists...

I see them on YouTube, forums, and even MA forums... Seriously, if those people even come and train with the Dog Brothers for a day and we'll see what they think of us then... Hell, I even heard it from fellow FMAers..

I bet a lot of these morons probably never trained in anything or if they did train, they trained in a McDojang... With their fancy uniforms and bowing to pictures of dead people...

People who are ignorant always get this misconception that MA is supposed to be like how Jackie Chan does it in the movies with flying kicks and punches galore...

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Please try not to take everything so personally. It seems that eveybody on youtube is a hater and the anoynmity (sp?!) of the internet allows this. You know they wouldn't say it to your face but the net is a cess-pit at times. Our system even has people who subscribe to the videos just to add critical and insulting comments. Sometimes I PM them to invite them to our training to show us the error of our ways but guess what I get back...nothing. Zip. Nada.

I personally am trying to channel the anger I feel about the comments you mention (and for me as I am young and a bit brash it is hard not to get into an online argument with them) into my training. As has been said numerous times; "Talk is cheap" but maybe, just maybe you'll have the opportunity to stand opposite one of these people one day and represent.

However, I would counsel you to be a bit more respectful regarding this bit:


bowing to pictures of dead people...Showing respect for one's roots and being humble are fine traditions. To tie in another post of yours Martial Arts isn't just about fighting with mental toughness and preservation of culture two qualities that immediately spring to mind.

Simon.

[oosh]

The opinions of the the uninformed, are just that.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Nicely put oosh :)

However, some of the comments I've seen on videos relating to K.I on youtube this past week are ridiculous at best...


The guy is holding the stick wrong. He doesn't have a punyo. This is a fundamental basic to all styles
In the Philippines they don't train with sticks but use machetes (sic) as the art is not amercanized. My instructor went there to train so I know what I'm talking about

:uhh:

Comments like that give me itchy fingers but MUST RESIST, MUST RE-SIST!!!

:toilet:

[The Phalanx]

Please try not to take everything so personally. It seems that eveybody on youtube is a hater and the anoynmity (sp?!) of the internet allows this. You know they wouldn't say it to your face but the net is a cess-pit at times. Our system even has people who subscribe to the videos just to add critical and insulting comments. Sometimes I PM them to invite them to our training to show us the error of our ways but guess what I get back...nothing. Zip. Nada.

I personally am trying to channel the anger I feel about the comments you mention (and for me as I am young and a bit brash it is hard not to get into an online argument with them) into my training. As has been said numerous times; "Talk is cheap" but maybe, just maybe you'll have the opportunity to stand opposite one of these people one day and represent.

However, I would counsel you to be a bit more respectful regarding this bit:

Showing respect for one's roots and being humble are fine traditions. To tie in another post of yours Martial Arts isn't just about fighting with mental toughness and preservation of culture two qualities that immediately spring to mind.

Simon.

Showing respect and courtesy, yes... But I bow to no man, living or dead... I don't care what their accomplishments are, I will not bow to any mortal... I only bow to my God...

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

So you don't bow for religious reasons? I can respect that and have actually trained somewhere where the instructors aknowledged the guy's beliefs and he didn't bow at the start of the lesson.

However, an atheist would consider the bowing to a mythical figure much stranger than bowing to somebody that actually existed. Just to play "devils advocate" and not to debate religion on a FMA forum....;)

[silat1]

Sounds like someone has been watching the movie "the Alamo". This is a paraphrase of what was said when Sam Houston was going in and talk to the Texas board of politicians before Jim Bowie stopped in..





Showing respect and courtesy, yes... But I bow to no man, living or dead... I don't care what their accomplishments are, I will not bow to any mortal... I only bow to my God...

[The Phalanx]

Sounds like someone has been watching the movie "the Alamo". This is a paraphrase of what was said when Sam Houston was going in and talk to the Texas board of politicians before Jim Bowie stopped in..

I have never seen the movie or know what you are talking about... That is my belief... I don't bow to anyone living or dead...

[silat1]

OK, will give that one to you.. But my question is, do you go to church services on sunday?



I have never seen the movie or know what you are talking about... That is my belief... I don't bow to anyone living or dead...

[The Phalanx]

OK, will give that one to you.. But my question is, do you go to church services on sunday?

What is your point?

[silat1]

Just asking a question, since you brought up what you believe in and will not bow to any man.. you will only bow to god



What is your point?

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

A slight change of direction.

You write:


Showing respect and courtesy, yes

So, if you visited Japan let's say where bowing is a show of both respect and courtesy you wouldn't do it?

[The Phalanx]

Just asking a question, since you brought up what you believe in and will not bow to any man.. you will only bow to god

Yes, I do attend Church... And I do not bow to anything or anyone... I will nod my head down a bit to show courtesy but not in the act of bowing like how the Japenese do it to each other...

Nobody deserves a bow from me... I don't give a damn what culture or traidition it is... That's their problem if I don't...

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Nobody deserves a bow from meHow about this scenario.

You meet a girl and she's Japanese. You plan to marry her but first go to meet the Parents in Japan. They send a limousine to the airport and welcome you to a sumptious mansion with tennis courts, swimming pools and an astounding view of Tokyo city. You're mad about the girl and itching to make a good impression on her family.

As soon as the chafuer opens the door they are there to greet you. The bow deeply and say "Welcome to our house. Please treat it as your own".

What would you honestly do?

(Apart from pich yourself!)

[Kali Cowboy]

I would like to ask a couple of questions to help me understand your point of view, if that is OK?

Were you born in the USA or in another country?

Are you a city boy or a country boy?

How old are you?

I know you attend church but do you believe in God?

Do you have a problem with authority?

My answers
USA
Country
51
I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ
I respect and support authority

How about you?

God Bless,
Stephen

[The Phalanx]

How about this scenario.

You meet a girl and she's Japanese. You plan to marry her but first go to meet the Parents in Japan. They send a limousine to the airport and welcome you to a sumptious mansion with tennis courts, swimming pools and an astounding view of Tokyo city. You're mad about the girl and itching to make a good impression on her family.

As soon as the chafuer opens the door they are there to greet you. The bow deeply and say "Welcome to our house. Please treat it as your own".

What would you honestly do?

(Apart from pich yourself!)

If that girl is one I plan to marry then I guess she would know me by now... And know my views on bowing and would have suggested to her to tell her patents about it before I met them...

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Thanks for answering the question honestly.

Trust me...you and your intended may well have A LOT you don't know about each others points of view - especially if you are from different cultures.

I believe such an attitude will be mis-understood as rudeness more often than not and will make you more enemies than friends in life.

You quote Sun Tzu in your sig but isn't also one of his quotes:

"Keep your friends close but your enemies closer"?

...If I could be as bold as to refer to the in-laws as "enemies"!:mwah:

[silat1]

Even the act of nodding your head constitutes a bow in some cultures.. In the FMA systems that I have trained in, we never bowed.. We paid respect by bugaying (hand over heart and saluting that way). In the Chinese systems I trained in, we never bowed fully, we saluted with hand in fist and nodding of the head.. That was acceptable in the schools where I trained in Taiwan and elsewhere..

Now if you nod your head and keep it down during prayer, it is still a bow and you are paying respect to either an idol or the symbol of the religion of what services you attend.. That is still a bow no matter how you define it..



Yes, I do attend Church... And I do not bow to anything or anyone... I will nod my head down a bit to show courtesy but not in the act of bowing like how the Japenese do it to each other...

Nobody deserves a bow from me... I don't give a damn what culture or traidition it is... That's their problem if I don't...

[The Phalanx]

Even the act of nodding your head constitutes a bow in some cultures.. In the FMA systems that I have trained in, we never bowed.. We paid respect by bugaying (hand over heart and saluting that way). In the Chinese systems I trained in, we never bowed fully, we saluted with hand in fist and nodding of the head.. That was acceptable in the schools where I trained in Taiwan and elsewhere..

Now if you nod your head and keep it down during prayer, it is still a bow and you are paying respect to either an idol or the symbol of the religion of what services you attend.. That is still a bow no matter how you define it..

I don't bow to any statue... Unless that statue is a symbol of Jesus... My Lord and Savior... Now that can be debated by so many other Christians... But my belief is my belief...

[The Phalanx]

Thanks for answering the question honestly.

Trust me...you and your intended may well have A LOT you don't know about each others points of view - especially if you are from different cultures.

I believe such an attitude will be mis-understood as rudeness more often than not and will make you more enemies than friends in life.

You quote Sun Tzu in your sig but isn't also one of his quotes:

"Keep your friends close but your enemies closer"?

...If I could be as bold as to refer to the in-laws as "enemies"!:mwah:

Sun Tzu is the man... I use the Art Of War as an inspiration to success... Worked for me... Well that and The Secret... So far, I got everything I want... Other than a Ferrari... But that should be coming soon... :piratesmi

[gagimilo]

Exactly Bill, what is your point? we don't even know whether the God of Phalanx has any church dedicated to It...he was not exactly specific about it.

Anyway, I see the bowing thing as a matter of custom, i.e. cultural tradition. Now, to refuse that is to show the lack of respect. Something as if refusing to take your shoes off when entering peoples' houses (where it is customary) or take off one's hat when entering a church etc.

I really don't see any difference between bowing to someone (provided they bow back to you) and simply crossing your sticks like at the beginning of DB matches, as long as it is a genuine show of respect and courtesy, in line with the habits of the specific group.

[silat1]

The point of what I am making is that respect is a two way street and must be given to be received in turn.. If someone says he/she doesn't bow, but still says he/she nods his/her head, that is still a bow as the head is bent to pay homage or respect to an individual.. The statement was also made that he doesn't bow to any statue or idol, yet it goes on to state that he bows his head in respect to a likeness of the symbol he worships..

The point that I am making is why say one thing one minute just to go and change it in the next posting.. It just leads one to wonder if the understanding of respect and the act of bowing irregardless of how slight is above the comprehension of the original poster. Too much waffling in response to my queries tend to make me wonder if the subject matter is too deep for understanding clearly in the opposing point of view

Nothing more, nothing less..

[arnisador]

The Dog Brothers have changed the game! Like the UFC (albeit on a much smaller scale), they've brought a form of reality to modern stickfighting. That can be good and bad. The way they train isn't at all sword-like and may not translate to heavier sticks than the rattan they use, but it's hard to argue against the fact that they've shown the roof-and-crash strategy has definite value. Good for them! It's not the only way to train but it's a great example.

[arnisador]

The religious discussion is off-topic in this thread.

-Arnisador
-FMAT Admin

[Kali Cowboy]

The roof and crash is what I used to train. It worked for me for many years. When I started using steel in my training, everything changed.

[greg808]

In class we salute to our lineage instructors out of respect. Just like a salute to a military officer. Its called RESPECT. Something some don't understand.

[Brock]

Of these keyboard warriors who roam the internet bitching about how the Dog Brothers are a bunch of red-necks who do nothing but bash each other with sticks and are not true Martial Artists...

I see them on YouTube, forums, and even MA forums... Seriously, if those people even come and train with the Dog Brothers for a day and we'll see what they think of us then... Hell, I even heard it from fellow FMAers..

EVERY art gets criticized at one time or another especially on the internet.


I bet a lot of these morons probably never trained in anything or if they did train, they trained in a McDojang... With their fancy uniforms and bowing to pictures of dead people...

People who are ignorant always get this misconception that MA is supposed to be like how Jackie Chan does it in the movies with flying kicks and punches galore...

Pot... Kettle.... Black....

[silat1]

Point.... Taken..... Now..... Preach..... To...... Choir.......

Bow before opening mouth and inserting foot:EvilGrin::angel:

Must.... Fight.....Evil....Comment..... Demons.......




EVERY art gets criticized at one time or another especially on the internet.



Pot... Kettle.... Black....

[Robert Klampfer]

Showing respect and courtesy, yes... But I bow to no man, living or dead... I don't care what their accomplishments are, I will not bow to any mortal... I only bow to my God...

There are several definitions for and uses of the word "bow":


bending the head or body or knee as a sign of reverence or submission or shame or greeting
submit: yield to another's wish or opinion; "The government bowed to the military pressure"
bend the head or the upper part of the body in a gesture of respect or greeting; "He bowed before the King"

As a cultural gesture of respect or greeting, a bow is really no different than a salute or shake of the hand. It's not in my culture to bow but, if I'm interacting with a culture that practices it, I'll return one that's given to me. It's much the same as other cultures recognizing my handshake for what it is: a polite, social gesture. It has absolutely nothing to do with submission or deifying another. It's all about culture and good manners.

Robert

[Stone]

"I bow to no man, living or dead."

"I don't bow to any statue... Unless that statue is a symbol of Jesus"

So, you'll bow to certain statues of dead people? Just so we are clear on this.

[arnisador]

Thread closed.

-Arnisador
-FMAT Admin