Flow on the ground...

[Brock]

Last Saturday I had an instructor in to teach Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I noticed that I didn't feel that I had much trouble grasping the concepts and I feel it was because a lot of the priciples were the same as I'm used to in Senkotiros. I believe Tugan Dean has trained in BJJ and there are probably a few others of us, so I was wondering if any of you had the same thoughts.

[USKS1]

Guro Brock,

One thing that BJJ and Senkotiros share is the idea of live drilling, and the practice of slowing down the drilling so it can be absorbed vs just working to your strengths.

A slow roll working for subs at about 50 - 60% is like doing Gumon at a reasonable pace and striving to get the flow, and not win the contest.

I enjoy Grappling, and one of these days I will be good at it.. But aside from the fact that we all use the joints when they present themselves this is one of the common training methods I see.

As far as application we are also common on the "gift principle". Don't hunt for the submission, or the next move in freestyle....

Let your opponent dictate what you do by allowing him to give you the gift... He will leave an arm, or a check, and if you slow down and look at what is given you can sometimes find alot...

See you soon brother

Dean

[The Phalanx]

BJJ is a great art to supplement your FMA... Almost all fights end up on the ground and you need a good ground game to win the fight...

[Brock]

I enjoy Grappling, and one of these days I will be good at it..

I feel the same way about martial arts in general!

I was going to try to make it down your way for the seminar, but some family obligations came up. The Sama-Sama's coming up soon however, so hopefully I'll see you then!

[arnisador]

BJJ is a great art to supplement your FMA...

Yes, that was what I found when I added BJJ!

[USKS1]

I feel the same way about martial arts in general!

I was going to try to make it down your way for the seminar, but some family obligations came up. The Sama-Sama's coming up soon however, so hopefully I'll see you then!

Sounds good... We can work on some high percentage moves on the ground for you to take back to your place and practice.

See ya soon.

Dean

[Brock]

I'm hoping to be in a few days early to try to start filling in some of the blanks in my knowledge of the system.

[PG Michael B]

I have never studied BJJ but I can only imagine that it is as solid as can be. My ground work comes from a wrestling base. I am also an advocate of the silat ground game. IMHO what one does on his feet he should be able to tweak to fit his needs on the ground. It is also imperative to train on the ground (not on the matts)..I regulary have my guys getting nasty on the dirt, concrete, parking lots etc. In this way one can really see what may or may not be feasible. A concrete nasty parking lot is not as forgiving as the matts. All in all I do feel it is a must to be able to have some sort of component to deal with the ground.

[5tirosCamarin]

One thing that my training partner said at the seminar Guro Brock is mentioning here sounded a lot like Senkotiros' Sensitivity Concept, and I'm paraphrasing: A lot of times when you're on the ground you're not in a position to look at your opponent so you have to learn to feel what he's trying to do.

[Brock]

and striving to get the flow, and not win the contest.

This is useful for free sparring as well as counter for counter style sparring since once you get the flow you can use it to win the contest.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Hey Brock,

The movement and flow of Brazilian Jiujitsu is easily adapted by a FMA practitioner. Once you start it is just learning the positions and then the submissions and counters and counters to the counters. Sounds familiar already right! http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon10.gif If you have the chance regularly do some BJJ as I know you will enjoy it! http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Brock]

Yep, we're already working on setting up some regular training.

[el maldito de cebu]

share a few Idea of about MMA between FMA the FMA is already blessed with traditional fighting style it just need to be discovered. if when we talk of striking we have the sikaran, yawyan, panuntokan and jolo silat. when we talk about grappling we have the dinomugay and labay these fighting system if discovered developed combined and implemented i think we can have a hybrid answer to the question. There are still some martial arts in the phil. that are still kept and never been exposed to the modern world specially in some of the rural parts of the phil. which makes traditional FMA misterious

[Brian R. VanCise]

No doubt about there being some great Filipino grappling systems. I personally love Dumog, etc. http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Brock]

Agreed I've seen clips of Ron Kosakowski (http://www.fmatalk.com/member.php?u=1232) and hope to have him teach a seminar at my school sometime soon! I think what he does for grappling will fit in real well with Senkotiros.

[Brock]

Plus I wanna' buy some blades from him and it would save me on shipping! :D

[Triangulo]

I know Im just a noob, and I hate to drag up an old post, but Im a BJJ guy and I thought FMA would make an excellent supplement to it. Ive researched and studied some Panantukan and some of Ron Balickis material and found alot of the principles and movements very similar. I see FMA the way most of you view BJJ. Nice to see such open minds. Once again, hope Im not out of line....

[arnisador]

I added some BJJ to my FMA and have found it a great resource to have when things don't go the way I'd hoped! Everyone should get a few years of BJJ.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Just wondering, if BJJ suitable for those that have had serious knee injuries?

[arnisador]

Well, I suffered a serious knew injury while doing it (from a Judo throw) and had surgery to replace my ACL. (OTOH, my knees were weak already.) Knee or hip or back problems will make it more challenging, but there are plenty of techniques in the system. As long as you don't have an instructor who insists you can do all of them, you should be OK and will benefit!

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Cool. Yep, blew out my ACL and Miniscus in a bike crash so feel your pain Arnisador!

I was reading round some of Eddie Bravo's stuff and he was saying something along the lines of "If you can't get your legs behind your head you shouldn't be a black belt" or something. Interesting guy for sure.

I was just worried that putting locks and stuff on the knee wouldn't be such a good idea as the re-buiding operation didn't go so well and I have two metal screws somewhere in there!

Anyway, all theoretical as not much BJJ here in the Philippines but something to bear in mind for the future if I happen upon it I guess.

[Brock]

Eddie Bravo likes to smoke some funny cigarettes while training as well. As far as the way I look at training in BJJ, Senkotiros is my main focus anything else is to suppliment it. If it doesn't work with what I'm already doing, or if it's not physically possible for me to do no matter how much practice I put into it, I just don't do it. I'm not looking ot become a BJJ black belt, just augment what I already know.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Just wondering, if BJJ suitable for those that have had serious knee injuries?

Knee issues do pose a problem but it is not insurmountable. http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[USKS1]

Eddie Bravo likes to smoke some funny cigarettes while training as well. As far as the way I look at training in BJJ, Senkotiros is my main focus anything else is to suppliment it. If it doesn't work with what I'm already doing, or if it's not physically possible for me to do no matter how much practice I put into it, I just don't do it. I'm not looking ot become a BJJ black belt, just augment what I already know.

Guro Brock,

Great post. I feel it is important to understand your base art before you move on to cross training. A lot of the things you may feel are missing in your base system may be there, you just have not achieved the level where the material has been exposed to you yet, or you haven't seen it yet.

Many jump from system to system looking for the answer, when the real answer may be to just have a little patience and confidence in your teacher and when the time is right for you, it is amazing what you figure out.

Everyone wants a handout or the quick fix these days. There is no quick fix to knowledge, and there never has been. You gotta put in the time with a good teacher, and that is the simple answer.. Not always easy to swallow in our fast food society, but there is no magic pill or shortcut.

I have been amazed over the years the things I have been taught or exposed to, but didn't learn at the time because I was not ready.... Years later the light switch goes off, and I realize I was taught the skill years earlier, I just didn't absorb it till now. I feel blessed to have a teacher who makes me think and put in the work to understand the lesson. Even after having been in the arts for 35years, EVERY time I touch hands or sticks with him I still feel like a 3rd grader. He does not need to tell me I have more to learn, I can figure that out myself. He just guides me along the path.

If you want fast food go to McDonalds... If you want knowledge keep training hard, and you will be amazed how many lights turn on over time.

Just my .02

Dean

[NJMMADude]

USKS1, excellent post!

Guro Brock, I didn't know that you were interested in BJJ. I am a BJJ blue belt, been training in it for a few years. Next time you are out in NJ, if you want, I can get together with you and share some stuff.