Scissors on Planes.

[arnisador]

As of 22 December of last year, scissors with blades of up to 4 inches may be carried on planes (http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-tr-insider12feb12,1,2630552.column?coll=la-travel-headlines) (along with certain other small tools, including screwdrivers at most 7 inches in length). The reasoning was that it would shorten lines and that the TSA personnel's time was better spent looking for "more serious threats". The decision has been widely criticized, including by flight attendants (www.leaveallbladesbehind.com). A member of their union said (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=3860575), "Scissors of 4 inches or less -- that's a pretty big pair of scissors, and when taken apart is essentially two knives" but the TSA responds as follows (in the same story as linked above):




However, screeners nationwide spend 25 percent of their time looking for small tools that do not pose a threat, said Nico Melendez, TSA spokesman in Los Angeles.
"We find that explosives are more of a threat than these small tools and small scissors," Melendez said. "There has not been a single attack of a flight attendant using a small tool or small scissors."


Lawamakers in the Senate and House have also criticized (http://washingtontimes.com/business/20060130-093111-9314r.htm) the decision:


All knives and cigarette lighters remain banned from airplanes.

But there is little difference between a 4-inch pair of scissors and a knife with a 4-inch blade, said Rep. Edward J. Markey, Massachusetts Democrat, who introduced a bill last month that would restore the ban and joined flight attendants yesterday at Reagan Airport -- before boarding a flight to Boston.


Airlines have largely supported the TSA's decision.

A quick search easily turns up cases of death by scissors (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70816F63A5B0C7B8EDDA80894DE4044 82). It's clear that they could be deadly; and of course, we know that box cutters have been used in such a manner on planes previously. Screwdrivers are also dangerous wepaons if sharpened and wielded as shanks.

I'm of mixed minds. I feel the TSA restrictions have been unnecessarily severe and the lines all to often unreasonably long. You can't ban everything that could possibly be used as a weapon. Yet...a trained person could do a lot of damage with a separated pair of scissors, and the amount of training needed to make someone dangerous is, sadly, not all that great.

On balance, I think the TSA's move is reasonable. Perhaps the best way to look at it is, An armed society (or plane) is a peaceful society (or plane). Is it every FMAer's patriotic duty to make sure he or she has a pair of scissors on person when flying?

[Waltyr]

You hit it right on the nose!! An Armed society is a peaceful society. That has been proved throughout human history and even in the U.S. One can see statistcal proof of States that allow the carry of concealed weapons have a lower rate of crime than States that do not. Why that is, maybe its the notion that you don't know who is or isn't armed, and therefore, having a higher level of mutual respect for everyone as a whole leads to lower crime rates (thats just a theory though).
IMO, our society in regards to carrying arms (guns, knives, etc..) should be that of the same as the State of Arizona: just display the weapons openly, and have a mutual respect for all people.

[Brian R. VanCise]

You hit it right on the nose!! An Armed society is a peaceful society. That has been proved throughout human history and even in the U.S. One can see statistcal proof of States that allow the carry of concealed weapons have a lower rate of crime than States that do not. Why that is, maybe its the notion that you don't know who is or isn't armed, and therefore, having a higher level of mutual respect for everyone as a whole leads to lower crime rates (thats just a theory though).
IMO, our society in regards to carrying arms (guns, knives, etc..) should be that of the same as the State of Arizona: just display the weapons openly, and have a mutual respect for all people.

Good point Waltyr. Definately States that allow their citizens to be armed seem to be having fewer problems.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[lhommedieu]

Funny - my wife, 5-year old, and I were flying out of LAX last week and I got stopped for something in my backpack. Turns out that I had my wife's car keys in one of the pockets. Her keys are attached to a decorative 4" safety pin that "printed" on x-ray as a folder. The security guys were polite and professional and sent us through in about 10 minutes after some consultation with supervisors. And my wife got to keep her safety pin: the supervisor said that "Last year, we wouldn't have allowed this through, but now we can."

On the way through the line we passed a very elderly gentleman who could barely stand and needed a wheelchair. He was being subjected to a body search with hand scanners and had been there for quite a while. His daughter was amused/irritated that they had chosen to pull him out but obviously there was something in his clothing that had triggered the walk-through scanner.

One interesting note: before searching my backpack they attached a swab to a small pole and wiped the inside of the pack. They put the swab in some kind of device for testing. I suspect that it tested for trace amounts of gunpowder or cordite, etc. Had I previously used my bag to ferry equipment for target shooting, etc., it definitely would have triggered a reading...

Best,

Steve Lamade

[arnisador]

Funny - my wife, 5-year old, and I were flying out of LAX last week and I got stopped for something in my backpack. Turns out that I had my wife's car keys in one of the pockets. Her keys are attached to a decorative 4" safety pin that "printed" on x-ray as a folder.


So...how long before Black Belt starts carrying ads for "martial artists' scissors" that are of legal length but easily snap apart to form two weapons? They'll be sold like kubotans, on keychains (like the safety pin).

It could have been worse, though; you could have been a traveling knife salesman:
Packing Knives, Not Ill Will (http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/02/21/business/21flier.html]Packing Knives, Not Ill Will)



Maybe I should have thought about it. A few months after 9/11, five salesmen and I boarded a flight from Columbus, Ohio, to Boston. We were each carrying two sets of knives in our luggage. We fed our bags to the conveyor belt at the security checkpoint.


Flying knife salesman...an interesting choice in this day and age.


One interesting note: before searching my backpack they attached a swab to a small pole and wiped the inside of the pack. They put the swab in some kind of device for testing. I suspect that it tested for trace amounts of gunpowder or cordite, etc.

I've had this done for my shoes several times, but I rarely carried a bag even before 9/11. I just don't like having to lug something around and watch out for it.

Here's an interesting article from a former screener at Dulles (registration may be required):
'Security' Without Sense (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/17/AR2006021701737.html)



In a memorandum that marked the third anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the federal security director lauded the screening force at Dulles for intercepting 12.4 million "prohibited items" since the TSA's inception. But how many of those items were field hockey sticks, cigarette lighters and cuticle scissors?


From here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/17/AR2006021700632_2.html), second page, a warning that Canada's rules are different: A person flew out of the U.S. with cuticle scissors, but they were confiscated in Montreal when going through security for the return flight.

[JohnJ]

One thing comes to mind when it comes to weapons being brought on board a plane, plastic knives and letter openers. I do not want to disclose manufacturers but I am certain many of you know what I am talking about. These products are undetectable and extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. I know people who forgot to put them in the check-in bag and walked on the plane with ease.

JohnJ

[arnisador]

Passengers Restrain Man on Airline Flight (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060523/ap_on_re_us/plane_disturbance)


An elderly man on an American Airlines flight was restrained by passengers, including television's "Dr. 90210," after he got out of his seat and shoved a flight attendant late Monday, officials said.

Dr. Robert Rey, a plastic surgeon who practices martial arts, told The Associated Press he got out of his seat and intervened when he heard the man make a "big noise" as he pushed a female flight attendant toward the cockpit.


"When you get a black belt, at that stage your brain just clicks into action," the doctor said. "I restrained this gentleman in a very aggressive way without hurting him."


Another passenger helped as the man kicked and screamed, Rey said. The doctor said he also checked the man's vital signs and determined he was not having a medical emergency.

(http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060523/ap_on_re_us/plane_disturbance)

[arnisador]

Incidents affect 7 U.S. flights; on one jet, dynamite is found (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060826/NEWS06/608260502&SearchID=73254948930713)


A utility knife was found on a vacant passenger seat of a US Airways flight that had traveled from Philadelphia to Bradley International Airport in Connecticut, state police said. No arrests were made and there were no threats involved, said Master Sgt. J. Paul Vance, state police spokesman.

A plane was delayed because a utility knife was found on a vacant seat after a flight. Seems like that's being very carfeul to me.

[Waltyr]

A utility knife?? Gee, I sure feel safer flying now. In fact I'll be flying cross-country this weekend and I can only imagine what some TSA screener is going to allow on a plane!!!

[blindside]

One interesting note: before searching my backpack they attached a swab to a small pole and wiped the inside of the pack. They put the swab in some kind of device for testing. I suspect that it tested for trace amounts of gunpowder or cordite, etc. Had I previously used my bag to ferry equipment for target shooting, etc., it definitely would have triggered a reading...

Two of my friends are federal LEOs that fly somewhere every year to requalify. Despite putting LOTS of lead downfield, and carrying on luggage that was at the range they have never set the detectors off on the return trip. (They expect to do every year.) I suspect the spectrometers are looking for something else.

Lamont

[arnisador]

Sikhs learn to live with security regulations

(http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0611240247nov24,1,6915719.story)

Consider the Sikhs, whose religion requires them to always wear a dagger.

The centuries-old requirement has collided with beefed-up, post-Sept. 11 rules that no longer allow people to leave legal weapons and other banned items with security guards working in such buildings as courthouses and federal offices. In two dozen cases in the last two years, Sikhs have been arrested, threatened with arrest or harassed in disputes with guards over the ceremonial kirpan, according to the Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund.

In an effort to bridge the culture-security gap, the Homeland Security Department and the Sikh legal group this week unveiled a poster meant to help screeners through these interactions.

The poster, which will be distributed to federal facilities nationwide, shows photos of different kirpans, ranging from a symbolic necklace some women wear to the more common 3- to 6-inch daggers, as well as full-on swords.


It's a shame to see a legitimate religious belief collide with the realities of the post-9/11 world. It's yet another custom that is a victim of terrorism.

Danish Court Rules Against Sikhs' Daggers (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/27/AR2006102701283_pf.html)

(Scroll to the bottom of the page.)


A Danish court has upheld a lower court ruling that Sikhs cannot carry knives for religious reasons.


Denmark's Eastern High Court on Tuesday confirmed a decision by Copenhagen City Court that Ripudaman Singh had violated a Danish arms law that prohibits carrying knives with blades longer than 2.8 inches in public places.


Singh repeatedly carried a ritual dagger known as a kirpan in his waist band, a tradition that is a basic tenet of Sikhism, an India-based faith with more than 20 million followers worldwide.

[arnisador]

Kirpan posters come to Sikhs' help in US (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/World/The_United_States/Kirpan_posters_in_US_to_avoid_Sikhs_being_targeted/articleshow/516267.cms)


WASHINGTON: With a view to assuage the feelings of Sikh Americans who have been involved in rows with security personnel over possession of kirpans, the US department of homeland security and a Sikh outfit have reached an agreement to display posters of various ceremonial daggers at checkpoints across the country to assist screeners.

[arnisador]

Pilot's gun fires on US Airways flight (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_re_us/gun_on_plane)



A gun belonging to the pilot of a US Airways plane went off as the aircraft was on approach to land in North Carolina over the weekend, the first time a weapon issued under a federal program to arm pilots was fired, authorities said Monday.

[arnisador]

Woman says TSA forced piercings removal (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080327/ap_on_re_us/nipple_rings)



A Texas woman who said she was forced to remove a nipple ring with pliers in order to board an airplane called Thursday for an apology by federal security agents and a civil rights investigation.

I don't have so much sympathy for her, I'm afraid. If you set off a metal detector at an airport, you have to expect to have a long day.

[arnisador]

My little keychain knife (under 2") was confiscated yesterday by the TSA. I had thought it was OK under the loosened standards in the first post in this thread but apparently it's still a "knife" and deadly (unlike scissors up to 4", which are a "tool" and not deadly). :(

[blindside]

My little keychain knife (under 2") was confiscated yesterday by the TSA. I had thought it was OK under the loosened standards in the first post in this thread but apparently it's still a "knife" and deadly (unlike scissors up to 4", which are a "tool" and not deadly). :(

Or a screwdriver that is less than 7 inches in length....

[arnisador]

The Curriculum Is Emergencies (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/travel/14AIirlineSide-wb.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22fumbling%20through%20some%22&st=cse&oref=slogin)



For security reasons, I wasn’t allowed to participate in flight attendant security training. “All security procedures are considered sensitive security information and are for crew members’ use only,” an American spokeswoman wrote in an e-mail message. But attendants I interviewed for the article said they are taught self-defense, that the mallets used for breaking up ice can be used as weapons if necessary, and that they must constantly be on the lookout for suspicious activity onboard.

Ice mallets as weapons! Excellent!

[Rich Parsons]

Funny - my wife, 5-year old, and I were flying out of LAX last week and I got stopped for something in my backpack. Turns out that I had my wife's car keys in one of the pockets. Her keys are attached to a decorative 4" safety pin that "printed" on x-ray as a folder. The security guys were polite and professional and sent us through in about 10 minutes after some consultation with supervisors. And my wife got to keep her safety pin: the supervisor said that "Last year, we wouldn't have allowed this through, but now we can."

On the way through the line we passed a very elderly gentleman who could barely stand and needed a wheelchair. He was being subjected to a body search with hand scanners and had been there for quite a while. His daughter was amused/irritated that they had chosen to pull him out but obviously there was something in his clothing that had triggered the walk-through scanner.

One interesting note: before searching my backpack they attached a swab to a small pole and wiped the inside of the pack. They put the swab in some kind of device for testing. I suspect that it tested for trace amounts of gunpowder or cordite, etc. Had I previously used my bag to ferry equipment for target shooting, etc., it definitely would have triggered a reading...

Best,

Steve Lamade

Steve,

I know this post is old, but as there were a couple recent posts I read the whole thread again.

The test they did with the wand and cloth was to detect chemicals for possible gun powder and other items. The Cloth is usually put into a Gas Chromatograph which can detect and identify chemicals in particular those with Aromatic qualities.