How many people train with canes?

[Brock]

I don't mean how many of us are so crippled that we need them to walk! How many of you train with the walking cane as a weapon? Do you adapt what you already know from your style or study a style that teaches it i.e. Canemasters?

[silat1]

I don't mean how many of us are so crippled that we need them to walk! How many of you train with the walking cane as a weapon? Do you adapt what you already know from your style or study a style that teaches it i.e. Canemasters?

I use a tungkod while I train from time to time.. I have been doing this type of training since I was told that I have degenerating discs and arthritis developing in my lower back and shoulder region.. I use the tungkod when I travel, but don't carry anything like you see from the cane masters as some of their items scream weapon and draw unwanted attention by people who are naturally nosy when it comes to traveling and passengers on aircraft... I had some tungkod made out of kamagong and magahony when I was in the Philippines a few years back and still have a couple of them still in use.. Some of them were given as gifts to friends and acquaintances who were visiting and wanted to bash some sticks while on island..

I always carry a tungkod in my truck also because I never can tell when I will be asked to train or teach some applications to introduce people into the systems I teach and train in..

These canes are nothing out of the ordinary, just some engraved pieces of philippine hardwood which I had made to suit my needs with a little input by myself..

[pesilat]

I have trained with canes from time to time - usually adapting what I've learned from FMA. I've had some exposure to systems that specialize in it like Canemasters. While what they teach is valid I've not seen any material presented in those that I didn't already have from my FMA training.

Tangentially, there was something of interest I picked up watching one of the Canemaster instructors teach (it wasn't a technique but it was an interesting point I hadn't previously considered). He said, "Get a cane with a rubber tip. A) It's more functional as a cane and B) when you jab someone with the end that rubber tip tends to cause more friction and disrupt their structure more effectively than other types of tips - even if you graze them it's often enough to disrupt their structure. Other types of tips will often just slide off without really slowing the attacker down or disrupting him in any significant way." He phrased it differently but that was the gist I took from it and it does make a certain amount of sense.

Mike

[Shonin]

After years of being rode hard and put away wet my left knee is pretty trashed. It is fine while I am intently engaged in something else, training, cycling, and so those activities continue unabated, but it hurts a great deal while I am in neutral. Hence I always carry one when I am walking.

I keep a couple of sturdy (from House of Canes) in my POV and have one very nice cane umbrella (also from House of Canes).

When this began a few years ago I simply started using the cane to train the same sort of stick work that my escrima uses. It is at the point now where I almost always have a less-lethal weapon in my hand and, since they are quite sturdy (oak and diamondwood) I can use them precisely as I would a 32" olisi.

I keep a second folder on my weak side and practice the espada y dagga with the cane and folder.

I personally think the cane is a lovely weapon and, if you purchse wisely, does not raise eyebrows. It also tends to give one the patina of someone who is not a threat. Useful when the local constabulary comes sniffing around.

Shonin

[lhommedieu]

I don't mean how many of us are so crippled that we need them to walk! How many of you train with the walking cane as a weapon? Do you adapt what you already know from your style or study a style that teaches it i.e. Canemasters?

I have a couple of canes around the house that I'll pick up from time to time. I've learned cane techniques from the following styles:

Estacada-Weapons: Has it's own cane curriculum based upon the unique body-mechanics of this style. Uses single-hand, double-hand (baseball), and double-end techniques.

Xing Yi Quan: Cane form from the North American Tang Shou Tao curriculum. Uses primarily double-hand and double-end techniques, as well as bayonet techniques.

Pekiti Tirsia Kali: Does not have a "cane curriculum" per se - but the cane can be used very effectively using the "double force," double-hand, and bayonet grips taught in the Single Stick Abcedario, among other places. Pekiti Tirsia International also has a walking staff curriculum that can be adapted effectively for use with a heavy cane.

San Miguel Eskrima: Does not have a "cane curriculum" per se - but the cane can be used effectively with largo range, power-based espada y daga techniques such as those found in the San Miguel Form.

Although I don't travel anywhere with a cane I think it's useful to learn as it teaches you how to use a simple lever that's longer and heaver than a typical eskrima stick - but not as long as a walking stick or staff, etc.

A useful trick if you're going to carry a cane is to cut the end of the crook on a "fish hook" angle as it's a force multiplier when you use it to gouge and hook.

Best,

Steve

[Brian R. VanCise]

We do quite a bit of three foot cane work in IRT. From striking with them to locks and throws and both straight and curved ends. http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[arnisador]

With my recent injury (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=3883) I've upped my cane training, adapting my Modern Arnis to it. I use a shillelagh (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=4512).

[Brock]

With my recent injury (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=3883) I've upped my cane training, adapting my Modern Arnis to it. I use a shillelagh (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=4512).

I see more people are training in Irish Stick fighting with the shillelagh. One of my students was telling me that a guy that I trained with back in the day, and has since moved out of the area is training in it. I just got a cane last week and have been applying what I know from Senkotiros to work with it. I've even done Gumon (counter for counter sparring) with it. The hook makes for some interesting disruptive techniques. Not that I ever expect to go stick vs stick with a cane, but it was interesting application.

[Shonin]

To be a little more precise, I have a slew of canes, but they are all walking sticks from the House of Canes. I didn't want to deal with the curved end (precisely because it detracts from using the cane like a stick) so I went with walking sticks with small brass knobs on the end.

I prefer them to the traditional cane shape. The one exception is the umbrella cane I have, which has a T-shaped handle.

Probably more fiction that fact, but I loved the Once Upon a Time in China series with Jey Li playing Wang Fei Hung in which he always carried, and often fought with, a cane.

One very famous picture of Gao I Sheng (Gao Ba Gua) shows him sitting and holding a cane.

I think I also read somwhere that one of Dan Inosanto's mentors, John LaCoste) used to carry a cane.

Getting all gussied up and going out for a nice dinner with a lady on one arm and a gentleman's walking stick in the other is, if I may, dapper indeed. (We will not mention the hidden knife and the Glock in the ankle hoster. -- And yes ma'm, I AM glad to see you!)

Shonin

[Brock]

I'm finding that I like the hook. It allows me to do some off balancing techniques.

[arnisador]

Sometimes it's nice to have the hook, but I prefer the knob on my shillelagh. More often than not I'd rather take a swing than try an Eskrido-style lock, and I don't feel comfortable hitting with the curved hook end. I feel like I might get a glancing rather than square hit.

[Brock]

I like to attack the legs with the hook end then catch behind the knee or the ankle and pull. It also does nasty things in the groin area...

[arnisador]

But is it better than a strike with a knobby end of a hardwood cane? It's different, but I think I'd take the hit...though I know there are times when it's easier to sneak it in and yank than to get that strike in.

The hook is a nice option but if I can only have one I'd take the knob. Remember you can do some hooking with it too; it just isn't a real catch but something that'll give a little friction.

[Imua Kuntao]

I was told by my doc. that I am to young for knee replacements and would have to wait till I am 65yrs old, I'm 51. I use a cane only on my worst days. I also hold a 3rd Dan in Hapkido from Ki Whan Choi (died of cancer in late 80s), I learned cane techs. of Hapkido, which is pretty much like the techs. from Japanese styles (still they are cool and fun to do). I do not teach them as part of the Imua Tamaraw.

[Brock]

But is it better than a strike with a knobby end of a hardwood cane? It's different, but I think I'd take the hit...though I know there are times when it's easier to sneak it in and yank than to get that strike in.

The hook is a nice option but if I can only have one I'd take the knob. Remember you can do some hooking with it too; it just isn't a real catch but something that'll give a little friction.

I think it's just a personal preference thing. I've got alot of body mass to put behind a hit, so as long as I connect with something it's usually damaging.

[MPC1257]

I read somewhere on another thread in the forum about Irish Stick Fighting and I thought it was interesting. Here is the link if anyone is interested:
http://www.geocities.com/glendoyle/bata/index.html#contents

[Brock]

I knew the French had stick fighting based off of the rapier, but I just learned within the last year that there's an Itialian system as well. I've yet to find an instructor, but I'd like to study it! Kind of a heritage thing I guess.

[arnisador]

I know of La Canne...what's the Italian system?

[Brock]

La Scherma di Bastone, I'm having a bit of trouble finding anything in English on it though.

[gagimilo]

Essentially, it is similar to la canne to a certain degree. The very name means stick fencing.

[Brock]

Thanks! I'm sure it's as similar to La Canne as Italian Fencing is to French Fencing. I believe there is also some cross over because there are Savate schools in Italy that may teach La Canne as well.

[arnisador]

OK, that does sound similar!

[arnisador]

It's been 4.5 months since my knee surgery but I still carry my cane when I walk in the woods so I still consider it something to train with!

[el maldito de cebu]

I think its instinctive old eskrimadors use canes to desguise themselves of an eskrimador in there early years my grandad use to have a cane he uses when he walks but made up of metal and the tip if you pulled it its a small dagger. maybe it depends on the orrientation of time my grandad was a war veteran in the pacific its his orientation and how it explaineds of what he is but the misterious thing about it he never trained in arnis nor in kali. I think its just instinctive in your drive and the environmental influence around you. no education in weaponry yet knows how it works. "we call it kapit sa patalim" or "lacas ng loob" a filipino guerilla only feels his instincts that whats drive them to know what they are doing. the mastery of the art is in within us we jsut wait for its maturity for its effectiveness

[Ron Kosakowski]

This cane here http://traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/CaneSword.html (http://traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/CaneSword.html) has historical significance in the Philippines. Of course from European influence. They were carried by people of wealth for self defense purposes. There is more info on the page. i am sure you will find it interesting.

[silat1]

I hope to have some footage on garote larense which is a stick art from Venezula soon.. A friend of mine who lives there trains in it as well as Penchak Silat.. Once I get the footage, I will see about posting it in the video section of the forum with his permission..

Will keep the moderators informed

[chris arena]

I have been training with the cane for a number of years and have researched many unique sites in the process and have spent many hours working with Instructors, friends and students to develop workable cane skill. I have had the best success in modifying Datu Kelly Worden's "Connecting the Systems" Sibat Long Pole tapes and have used his 10 count strike and counter two man sets and have scaled them down to fit the walking cane, umbrella, etc. As a Student of Datu's I have spent many years perfecting his system and at his last seminar we had at his school two weeks ago we spent the bulk of about 4 hours on the Sibat 10 strikes starting with the long pole and then transferring the energies to single hand usage. I would highly recommend any serious cane practitioner to grab a copy of Kelly's Sibat Long Pole from his "Connecting the Systems" set. It is available on his NSI site. An oldy AND a goody! This coming March I have advertised a class thru the local college called: Sibat Cane Self-Defense for Adults. The foundation of the class centers around Datu Kelly's tapes. We'll see how it goes, at least I am having fun!

Chris Arena

Chris Arena

[Dec]

I had a debilitating knee injury 13 years ago, since then I use a cane. It just seemed natural to practice the exact things I learned in class (the little I have had) with the cane too. I haven't had any problems using it in the same way as the shorter sticks, but my footwork is bad because of my bad knee. I have gathered a few canes it that time and I use the older,more beat up ones, to hit the heavy bag with. If i go a few days with using the cane only the sticks feel very light in my hands.

[arnisador]

I hadn't thought of that, but using a cane counts as training with a heavier stick! I'm often criticized by my instructor and Mr. Tortal of DTS for using sticks that are too light so I'll count this!

[Shaun]

Canes are fantastic weapons. They can be carried (i believe) openly in most places without too much difficulty in terms of the legal aspects.

I use FMA techniques but also use ideas and techniques from the Korean art of Kuk Sool Won,which utilizes neck and wrist throws,joint locks and leg sweeps.

The cane in Kuk Sool Won was seen as a weapon deriving from the buddhist monks as it could be used in a non- lethal manner if so desired.

[arnisador]

I was at the airport today and the sign said no club-like weapons past security, listing baseball bats, for example. Nothing about canes!

[chiangmaiheadman]

I have a bamboo walking stick that I take everywhere basically as protection from the often vicious stray dogs that roam around this village. Many people, even younger ones, carry walking sticks for this reason. I never studied Filipino martial arts, but I was the leader of the riot control team in a NY maximum security prison for many years and have trained and used batons extensively, and many of those techniques are useful for canes or walking sticks. Now I am retired and live in Thailand and have been learning Thai stick fighting techniques of what is called krabi krabong.

[Brock]

I was at the airport today and the sign said no club-like weapons past security, listing baseball bats, for example. Nothing about canes!
I believe at last summer's meet and greet Drac said that he and Father Greek were carrying their canes (not using them to walk) and not only were they allowed onto the plane with them, they were sent through security via the handicapped line and were able to pass through faster.

[TuhonBill]

Hi Folks,

I adapted some Pekiti-Tirsia techniques for cane/walking stick use since, other than the LEOs, very few of my students carried a baston length stick on their person on a daily basis.

The techniques are grouped into three sets with 12 techniques per set.

1. Low Grip. The stick is held like a baseball bat.
2. Middle Grip. The stick is held like a rifle with a bayonet.
3. High Grip. The stick is held as if you were doing bench press.

From there, many of the close quarters baston techniques from Pekiti-Tirsia (such as the second set of Recontras) can be taught as an advanced cane set.

You can find the first walking stick set being demonstrated on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hy8ZXJckME

Regards,
Tuhon Bill McGrath

[lhommedieu]

Great stuff and very practical. What I like about PTK cane is that it's modular: you can adapt the techniques to a variety of larger-than stick/baton type weapons. It's also easy to see how, since a lot of the techniques look like they're bayonet-based, you can adapt them to an empty/jammed shotgun or carbine, if no other weapon is available and clearing/reloading your weapon is not an option.

Longer staff-type weapons get addressed quite well by the PTK sibat curriculum, so there's quite a nice blunt trauma continuum going on here:

empty hand - pocket stick - stick - cane - sibat

You could, for example, find techniques that would work well with a hiking staff from both the cane and sibat curriculum.

I don't think that there's much that doesn't get addressed by such the continuum, and the more that one practices individual weapons and the techniques for each weapon, the more one comes to find a shared quality of movement between them.

Best,

Steve

[tellner]

I've modified my stick and sword work for a walking-stick. I've also spent some time practising the curriculum outlined in the old text The Walking Stick Method of Self Defense. It's good stuff, and with the scars on my leg I can get away with carrying one almost anywhere.

When my unindicted co-conspirators Mushtaq and Terry finalise the Silat Zul Fikari curriculum the two main weapons will be the walking stick and the scarf. I was holding out for shamshir and buckler and Eastern archery, for the sheer coolth factor, but they're a bit limited in the modern world :(

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Saw a mental thing on the "Animal Planet" or a similar channel last night...

This nutcase was in a South African game part filming a wildlife documentary. There'd been reports of man eating lions.

Off he went armed with a sheperds crook to tackle the lions. His plan was to ram the stick down the throat of a charging lion, initiating their gag reflex..I was mostly amused by the cameraman who said "What should I be doing when you do this? Run back to the jeep?" and the guy (who I have nothing but admiration for) told him to stay put.

I saw them get charged by a lion as he was testing the Lion's flight / fight reflex and they all ran as fast as possible back to the jeep. Unfortuantely, I didn't see what happened when the guy decided to stand his ground on his next sorte.

Class.

[chiangmaiheadman]

I have a big bamboo walking stick to protect me from the many vicious dogs around here. But a dog is not a lion. I think this guy is crazy and I hope he survives but I would bet on the lion. I have not seen a lion attack in person but I have seen tigers and believe me if they charge you a stick is not stopping them.