Teovel`s / Grouped Style: When do you Break Patterns?

[Mono]

This is a question directed to all those who are Teaching some Lineage of the "Grouped" Balintawak of GM Villasin & Velez:

When do you start "Breaking Patterns"?

Do you at first finish teaching all Groups (1-5/6/7...) before breaking down the pre arranged Groups and ist "standardized" Variations into ist Elements and re-combining them or do you breake down each individual Group into ist Elements - using them individually at will - before advancing to the next Group?

Of course, you may also Answer to this Question if you are not teaching but still study Balintawak in one of these Lineages and share with us how your Teacher progresses in teaching you!

My personal Note/Experience:
right now I am "using" different Students to "experiment" with both ways/methods of Progression - teaching on the "Standardized" Variations first, the other by Braking the Patterns and applying more of a "conceptual" Method... So far its interesting to see how they progress.

The "Standart" Student builds Speed a lot faster but tends to "get lost" once a move goes "out of the Pattern;
the "Conceptual" Student has far less Speed but tends to keep the Flow of Defense-Counter a lot better...

I am very much looking forward to any Information!

Yours,
Philipp "Mono" Wolf

[Robert Klampfer]

I've experimented with both methods as you've described them. I found that I achieve better results by teaching the basic groups and standardized variations first. Only once the student has a solid base from which to work will I then reduce the individual groups to smaller and smaller pieces. My goal is to keep the student operating at about 80% speed. If they don't have a solid foundation in the groups, things tend to become sloppy and dangerous when operating at that speed.

Something I emphasize while teaching the groups is that we are always moving away from patterns. We do that by reducing the movements and applying syncopation.

Robert

[Mono]

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

No one else Teaching or Studying the Teovels Method(s)? ;)

Greetings from Germany!

Philipp "Mono" Wolf

[Rolando]

Hello Mono,
I'm a junior student from Toronto.
When Robert teaches the grouping system, a pattern, when we as a student predicts the pattern, Robert, in a subtle manner breaks the pattern because my anticipation. He wants me to be aware that a strike can come from anywhere. As the grouping progresses, variations are introduced, just to keep us awake.

I hope this helps.

Just a note. Our system is based on Jose Go's teaching but, Robert introduces the Teovel's Grouping to the beginner. He found it the fastest way for a new student to comprehend Balintawak, after the basics. Kudos to the Teovel's method.

[Mono]

Hello Mono,
I'm a junior student from Toronto.
When Robert teaches the grouping system, a pattern, when we as a student predicts the pattern, Robert, in a subtle manner breaks the pattern because my anticipation. He wants me to be aware that a strike can come from anywhere. As the grouping progresses, variations are introduced, just to keep us awake.

I hope this helps.

Just a note. Our system is based on Jose Go's teaching but, Robert introduces the Teovel's Grouping to the beginner. He found it the fastest way for a new student to comprehend Balintawak, after the basics. Kudos to the Teovel's method.

Hi Rolando,

thanks for sharing!

[Mono]

Its actually taken from the Thread on Footwork - but since it fits here so well I thought i'd post it here as well:


HELLO THERE BALINTAWAK PRACTITIONERS, AND TO MONO,

...

FIVE GROUPING SYSTEMS.
GROUP ONE..... TEACHING THE STUDENT LEFTTING AND CLEARING AND THE VARIATIONS. REMEMBER THAT BLOCKINGS AND STRICKINGS IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STICKS ALSO, FOOTWORKS THAT I MENTIONED, LEFT FOOT BACK OR RIGHT FOOT BACK WHEN YOUR STICK IS IN HIS RIGHT OR IN HIS LEFT SIDES.

GROUP TWO ....IS TEACHING STUDENTS LEFTTING AND CLEARING WITH HEAD MOVEMENTS. MEANS HEAD WAVING SIDE TO SIDE WHEN APPLYING THE BUTT OR POK POK TO THE HEAD. AND THE VARIATIONS. REMEMBER AGAIN, VERY IMPORTANT, THE FOOT WORK THAT I MENTIONED.

GROUP THREE,, TEACHING THE STUDENT THE PREPARATIONS FOR BODY FLEXIBILITY, THREE TRUST AND THE VARATIONS. DONT FORGET THE FOOTWORK AGAIN THAT I MENTIONED.

WHEN THE INSTRUCTOR SATISFIED THE STUDENTS CONTROL THEN, COMBINED THIS THREE GROUPS AND BREAK THE PATTERN, AS I SAID BEFORE, PLAY SLOWLY UNTIL THE STUDENT WILL USED TO IT.

THIS IS THE FUN PART.
GROUP FOUR... TEACHING THE STUDENT, PREPARATIONS FOR SPEED AND REFLEXES. AND LOTS OF VARATIONS. AND THIS TIME THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE STUDENTS TO STEP BACK OR STEP FORWARD UNLESS THE INTRUCTORS GUIDE TO MAKE STUDENT TO STEP BACK OR FORWARDS. DONT WORRY ABOUT THE INSTRUCTORS STEPPINGS. THIS IS TRAINING FOR THE SPEED ALREADY, THERE IS NO TIME TO STEP BACK AND FORWARDS. THERE ARE NOW LOTS OF BODY MOVEMENTS FLEXIBILITY REFLEX WITHOUT MUCH STEPPING BACK AND FORWARD.

GROUP FIVE... TEACHING THE STUDENT HOW TO DEFEND THE PUNCHES AND LOTS OF VARIATIONS. IT USED TO BE USING THE KNIVES BUT GM JOSE VILLASIN MAKE IT IN TO PUNCH FOR SAFETY. (OLD DAYS, MOST BALINTAWAK PLAYERS ALWAYS USING THE SHARP KNIVES).

WHEN COMPLETED THE WHOLE FIVE GROUPPNG SYSTEM, THEN YOU CAN FEED THEM RANDOMLY UNTIL SATISFIED.
REMEMBER THAT THIS IS NOT A FIGHT YET. THE INSTRUCTOR IS ONLY GUIDING THE STUDENT AND MINIMIZED THE SPEED UNTIL THE STUDENT CAN HAVE THE ABILITY TO BLOCK THE FULL SPEED.

...

REMEMBER THAT THIS IS ALL BASICS AND NOT FOR FIGHTING YET.
IF ANY QUESTIONS I AM WILLING TO ANSWER. THANK YOU SIR MONO.

GM BOBBY TABOADA
www.internationalbalintawak.com (http://www.internationalbalintawak.com)

For those who wish to read the Full Post of GM Taboada please go here:
http://www.fmatalk.com/showpost.php?p=28217&postcount=7

Any more Practitoners out there who are willing to share their Experience?

Thanks!

Mono

[bamboo_river]

Hi Robert,

Would you care to elaborate on your experience and perspective of 'Syncopation' in regards to a writeup by another Balintawak practitioner @
http://www.tabimina.riverbamboo.org/Insights/music-a-mastery-in-tabimina-balintawak.html

Is your experience similar or different than the write up.

A lot of people tend to interpret Balintawak 'syncopation' akin to Jeet Kune Do definition of 'broken rhythm' but the article above highlights something more.

Appreciate any feedback of your insights. My thanks in advance.

God Bless

I've experimented with both methods as you've described them. I found that I achieve better results by teaching the basic groups and standardized variations first. Only once the student has a solid base from which to work will I then reduce the individual groups to smaller and smaller pieces. My goal is to keep the student operating at about 80% speed. If they don't have a solid foundation in the groups, things tend to become sloppy and dangerous when operating at that speed.

Something I emphasize while teaching the groups is that we are always moving away from patterns. We do that by reducing the movements and applying syncopation.

Robert

[Robert Klampfer]

Hi Robert,

Would you care to elaborate on your experience and perspective of 'Syncopation' in regards to a writeup by another Balintawak practitioner @
http://www.tabimina.riverbamboo.org/Insights/music-a-mastery-in-tabimina-balintawak.html

Is your experience similar or different than the write up.

A lot of people tend to interpret Balintawak 'syncopation' akin to Jeet Kune Do definition of 'broken rhythm' but the article above highlights something more.

Well, syncopation is breaking the rhythm. The difference between syncopation in fighting and syncopation in music is that in fighting we're not trying to keep time. So, we vary both the rhythm and tempo.

Robert