What besides Pekiti would you study?

[TuhonBill]

Someone recently asked me if I had studied any other arts (besides Pekiti-Tirsia) in the last ten years. I responded that I hadn’t had the time. But that got me thinking- what if I did? What else would I study if time, distance to a good instructor, etc. were not a problem?

Here’s my list:

1. Dan Inosanto’s Maphilindo Silat. If there is a week spot in the Pekiti-Tirsia I learned, it’s in the grappling aspect. The locks, throws and disarms in Pekiti-Tirsia are limited to those that will work against an opponent armed with a knife. Basically, this means that you have to have one hand available to counter the pulling of a second blade and the ability to see that blade coming. This gives a much smaller number of available locks than purely empty hand grappling arts like Judo and Brazilian Ju-Jitsu.

Maphalindo Silat (MS) has many of the locks one sees in Judo and BJJ, but teaches them with a S.E. Asian flavor in that the MS versions work against an armed opponent.

2. Kettle Bells. Not very long after I turned 40, I found that I could not lift as heavy as I was accustomed to in my weightlifting workouts without getting injured. Last year I started playing around with a few kettle bell exercises and found that I could get a good workout without injuring myself. I’m now 47 years old and have made it one of my goals to take kettle bell classes when I find a good instructor.

3. Yoga. As you get older, injuries from many years ago (even ones you thought had healed completely) begin to flare up and cause problems. Many older instructors who I respect greatly swear by yoga as a way to keep flexible and help the healing of old injuries. (Note to you young guys-it’s very rare that an injury heals 100% “good as new.” Don’t train so hard that you are likely to get more injuries in training than you are ever likely to get in real life).

Well, that’s my list. What’s yours?

Regards,
Tuhon Bill McGrath

[SuperToe]

My list isn't what I would study, it's what I'm studying/teaching now.

1. Pekiti Tirsia Kali
2. Russian Sambo/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
3. Kickboxing/Muay Thai Kickboxing
4. Fong-Wei-Do

The Pekiti Tirsia Kali and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is from Inst Phil Gelinas, also I will be transfering to Mr. Gelinas for my Muay Thai Kickboxing Training also.

If I were to study another system it would have to be Kuntao Tekpi Silat. Silat is something that I always loved cross-training in, but have only been exposed to a tiny bit of Maphilindo Silat.

Again the silat would hopefully come from Inst Gelinas, as I consider him my main Instructor in the martial arts .

www.montrealmartialarts.com (http://www.montrealmartialarts.com)

MP
Total Martial Arts Center
Poulin's Fitness Solutions

[wes tasker]

Much like what Mr. Poulin wrote, my list is the arts that I actually currently study.

For as long as I can remember I've always been fascinated by the stories regarding Chinese Internal Martial Artists. Especially the fact that so many seemed to be healers as well as effective martial artists well into old age.

The first martial art I studied was a classical Japanese Jujutsu system with a small healing arts component. That really got me hooked on the healing arts. Then I spent some time studying briefly with Prof. Wally Jay and some of his top students and I was exposed to the massage art of Danzan-ryu called Seifukujutsu. Finally I became a Massage Therapist and have gone on to study Zheng Gu Tui Na under Frank Butler and Tom Bisio.

Also, in the last couple of years I have had the incredible good fortune to be able to begin studying both Xing Yi Quan and Ba Gua Zhang. So my current list is:

- Pekiti Tirsia Kali
- Xing Yi Quan
- Ba Gua Zhang
- Western Bodywork / Zheng Gu Tui Na

And honestly - I can't imagine being any more happy or fortunate....

-wes tasker

[Danny T]

The Training Systems I am involved with:
* Pekiti-Tirsia
* Wing Chun - a great compliment to Pekiti due to the very close range, directness, and dynamic attacks.

* Muay Thai Boxing - conditioning and tempering like little else. It also has some rather effective kicks and elbows.

* Judo/BJJ - throws, takedowns, ground work and again conditioning. If you think you are in good condition get on the ground. I am certain you will find you are not as well conditioned as you think.

* Tai Chi - As Tuhon Bill has stated as we age all the old injuries return to haunt us. Tuhon Bill is a few years my junior and is just beginning to feel the effects. Tai Chi is my easy relaxing warm up so I can slowly limber the joints and muscles. It also works my leg strength in ways weight training simply doesn't.

* my strenght training for the past year has been kettlebells. Great core strength as well as limb muscle training. When I started kettlebell training what I was most surprised with was how aerobic it was.

What I would like to get more training in is Silat. I was able to do quite a bit with Pa Herman Suwanda prior to his passing and have done very little but for a couple of seminars with Guro Dan I since.

Tuhon Bll stated, "(Note to you young guys-it’s very rare that an injury heals 100% “good as new.” Don’t train so hard that you are likely to get more injuries in training than you are ever likely to get in real life)."

This is excellent advice! Our instructors, coaches, and trainers always talked about protecting the head which is certainly a good thing but seldom press the issue as to hands, elbows, knees, and other joints. Tuhon when you get to that Five O age and beyond it makes one wish he had been a bit smarter. All the years of stick strikes and punching the heavy bag has taken its toll. I strongly recommend and require students wrap their hands and wrist when using the heavy bags and the use of padded gloves when stick sparring. Use the shin guards when kicking against a training partner. Train smartly.

Danny T

[Shonin]

For FMA, the two systems I would most like to study are PKT, and/or KI. Probably also San Miguel, although the art I currently train in is a close offshoot. Unfortunately I do not live proximate to anyone teaching them.


As I get older the two arts that most contribute to my well-being are the Tai chi and yoga.

The yoga (in this case Astanga) is a huge developer of core strength, but more importantly works on correcting alignment and undoing a lifetime of spinal flexion (bending forward, hunching, ducking, that sort of thing.) What my body badly needed was to recover the ability to do spinal extension (essentiall bending backwards -- although for me that meant straightening up) and the yoga helps that enormously. It is, however,a steep learning curve.

As for the martial, I would have to say it is the tai chi. A famous Chinese fighter once said that (disaproving of hard makiwara training) that the ability to feel is rather more valuable than the ability to hit. For me at least, nothing has contributed to my tactical (in the sense of contact) ability like the tai chi. Additionally the way it approaches throws is, for me, much superior to the aiki arts I studied for a long time. Other's mileage may vary, but this is my experience. The notion of the internal is not easy to grasp, and I am no expert, but it adds a dimension to one's training that is found nowhere else.

Similarly, becoming a massage therapist (myofascial work) has been invaluable in discovering that the human body is far more wonderful and complex than just something to strike at or with. Knowing the anatomy and physiology also helped a lot with tactical ability.

And despite a trashed left knee, as someone said above, I couldn't imagine a happier place to be.

[gagimilo]

My other main interest in MA is Russian Systema. It provides a different method of movement, hence giving a complementary workout with FMA. It is also close to my cultural and spiritual background, and in our club there is a solid time dedicated to its health practices.
Besides, I am always involved with some phases of MMA, grappling, clinch work, a bit of MT, but I find grappling most interesting.

In regards of those fitness/health prevention methods, I find the Ginastica Natural (Brazilian yoga) to be rather good, as well as some of Pawel Tsatsouline's programs...

[lhommedieu]

Assuming that I could find some extra time I would be interested in adding the following arts to what I already do:

Pistol/Rifle
Western fencing

I view these not so much as "new" arts but as logical extensions to what I currently practice.

Best,

Steve

[Kailat]

Greetings, Just would like to add my interest as well.

As I live in a town where there is nothing but Karate, TKD, and now MMA none of which really interest me any more.. I have practiced and studied Karate mostly for the better of 20yrs. But over the yrs I've done extesive traveling once a week or so to a couple of hours away to study other arts. I've found that if I could of continued staying on the path of the Russian Systema (Al McKluckie-Ft. Wayne) and Serrada Eskrima (Kim Satterfield-Ft. Wayne) would be def the two I'd of enjoyed continuing in.

But the 2.5 hour drive got hectic and expensive after awhile, with work, fees, gas, food!!

The others had a have the opportunity is Mande Muda Silat, SIKAL TACTICAL (guru Ken Pannell - Dayton, Oh)

those would be my personal prefferences...

Maybe one day!!

[Jack Latorre]

Hello All--

I'm pretty much exclusively Pekiti-Tirsia. I've had some exposure in some other arts...Wing Chun, Muay Thai, Silat, Shooto...I have my hands full with Pekiti-Tirsia. Getting any good at one thing for me while being a parent of little ones is my main challenge.

If time permitted, perhaps the following:

Western Fencing (Spanish school)
Silat
Ba Gua Zhang (probably my top choice)

I continue to look at and evaluate other systems, but more to see thier relations to how I manifest my Pekiti-Tirsia...why things are done one way and not another...how certain motions are cultivated...et cetera. We're all one big family anyway....at times, estranged, but family none-the-less.

Best,

Jack A. Latorre

[selfcritical]

Someone recently asked me if I had studied any other arts (besides Pekiti-Tirsia) in the last ten years. I responded that I hadn’t had the time. But that got me thinking- what if I did? What else would I study if time, distance to a good instructor, etc. were not a problem?

Here’s my list:

1. Dan Inosanto’s Maphilindo Silat. If there is a week spot in the Pekiti-Tirsia I learned, it’s in the grappling aspect. The locks, throws and disarms in Pekiti-Tirsia are limited to those that will work against an opponent armed with a knife. Basically, this means that you have to have one hand available to counter the pulling of a second blade and the ability to see that blade coming. This gives a much smaller number of available locks than purely empty hand grappling arts like Judo and Brazilian Ju-Jitsu.

Maphalindo Silat (MS) has many of the locks one sees in Judo and BJJ, but teaches them with a S.E. Asian flavor in that the MS versions work against an armed opponent.


Tuhon Bill McGrath

Is this something that has evolved over the years? The dumog i've seen seems liked a very streamlined version of standard, high-percentage silat moves, and it definately doesn't seem like it's very small any more. Maybe my instructor got shown more Dumog because of his background as a Jagabaya in Mande Muda?

[wes tasker]

Is this something that has evolved over the years? The dumog i've seen seems liked a very streamlined version of standard, high-percentage silat moves, and it definately doesn't seem like it's very small any more. Maybe my instructor got shown more Dumog because of his background as a Jagabaya in Mande Muda?

From what I understand, Tuhon Leo undertook a study of some regional styles of Dumog and when he returned to the US, started teaching it at his seminars. I know he combines this with the standard Pangamut and the combination he often calls Dumpag. Of course I would imagine that the Dumog he teaches either fits cleanly, or has been modified to fit within the rubric of Pekiti Tirsia's mechanics, principles etc.

Someone with a current knowledge of PT-GO would know better than me. I'm just going on what I've read etc.

So I believe (to answer your question) it has developed over the years. But again, take that with a grain of salt as I practice PTI Pekiti Tirsia and have had no exposure to Tuhon Leo and his current teaching curriculum.

-wes tasker

[lhommedieu]

Wes,

Do you mean that your PTI curriculum is not a whole truth, but will become a whole truth as it marches towards itself through history?

Best,

Steve

[TuhonBill]

Wes,

Do you mean that your PTI curriculum is not a whole truth, but will become a whole truth as it marches towards itself through history?

Best,

Steve

Hi Steve,

Marching towards yourself sounds like a quick way to get nowhere (he said, with his tongue set as firmly in his cheek as Steve).

My goal for PTI is to teach everything I know, but rely on those I teach (most with a good deal more experience in other martial arts than I have) to get together and make improvements on the system. Much like Conrado and his brothers did after they got the basic system from their father. Leo used to tell us that the goal of his grandfather and great uncles was not to preserve the techniques of their father, but to destroy them. What could not be destroyed (readily countered) by the techniques they learned from other systems was kept. The best techniques from those other systems were put into Pekiti-Tirsia as is or modified so that they would fit the principles of Pekiti-Tirsia.

Remember folks, the techniques in the Pekiti-Tirsia system, and even the system itself, is meant to be a tool for your use. It's supposed to be YOUR servant, not the other way around.

Regards,
Tuhon Bill McGrath

[wes tasker]

Wes,

Do you mean that your PTI curriculum is not a whole truth, but will become a whole truth as it marches towards itself through history?

Best,

Steve

That's the geist of it, yes......... :)

-wes

[lhommedieu]

That's the geist of it, yes......

Martial arts as theology, now that's an interesting thought...


Much like Conrado and his brothers did after they got the basic system from their father. Leo used to tell us that the goal of his grandfather and great uncles was not to preserve the techniques of their father, but to destroy them. What could not be destroyed (readily countered) by the techniques they learned from other systems was kept. The best techniques from those other systems were put into Pekiti-Tirsia as is or modified so that they would fit the principles of Pekiti-Tirsia.

Thesis, antithesis, synthesis....hmmm.

Best,

Steve

[wes tasker]

Thesis, antithesis, synthesis....hmmm.


That's what I thought when I read Tuhon's reply - but I opted for the geist comment instead... Now I'm trying to resist bringing Kojeve, Barth, or Tillich into the mix... Although I think we may have taken this thread a little off course :lookaroun

-wes

[lhommedieu]

That's what I thought when I read Tuhon's reply - but I opted for the geist comment instead... Now I'm trying to resist bringing Kojeve, Barth, or Tillich into the mix... Although I think we may have taken this thread a little off course :lookaroun

-wes

Charles Hartshorne...in which case we could argue that Pekiti was not creatio ex nihilo but creato ex materia. Add a discussion of intelligent design (or if you wish, the argument from design) and we'd have a real pot boiler going on here.

But I agree we've taken this thread way off course...

Best,

Steve

[TuhonBill]

So this guy is walking down the street and sees French philosopher Rene' Descartes standing on the corner.

"What's you thinking about Rene'?" asks the man.

"Nothing," replies Descartes. And poof, he disappeared.

Regards,
Tuhon Bill McGrath
"Cogito, ergo sum"

[rshawtx]

That's a good one Bill. Have you ever used the following excuse for not turning in your Latin homework: 'Canis pensum meum comedit'. :)

To answer the original question though, I would probably do Krav Maga, Kajukenbo, Silat. Yes, definitely Yoga for flexibility. This is of course time and finances are not a consideration. :)

[Shonin]

I, for one, should like to know exactly how many angels can dance on the point of a pinu....; No, I won't go there.

And since we are not shying away from the abyss of the silly: Here is an early reference to FMA blade work:

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

(Just how does one say "fruminous bandersnatach" in Tagalog?)


Enjoy

[Twist]

Why is it that nobody lists any FMA-Styles when even GT Gaje sent some of his senior students to other FMA-Masters to learn from them?

[lhommedieu]

Why is it that nobody lists any FMA-Styles when even GT Gaje sent some of his senior students to other FMA-Masters to learn from them?

I'll bite. This is what I'm currently studying in addition to Pekiti Tirsia:

San Miguel Eskrima
Estacada-Weapons (strong affinity with both Pekiti Tirsia and SME due to my teacher being a close friend of Tom Bisio, but definitely a stand-alone art due to its connection with Estacada).

I'm no longer very active in Estacada-Kajukenbo, but there some FMA-type limb destructions and take downs in this art as well.

Best,

Steve

[wes tasker]

Why is it that nobody lists any FMA-Styles when even GT Gaje sent some of his senior students to other FMA-Masters to learn from them?

My answer is similar to Steve's in that I came to Pekiti Tirsia Kali after studying four other Filipino Martial Arts and with about seven years of Pentjak Silat and Kuntao - which I have continued studying to this day.

I have been fortunate to have been able to study and/or see many great Filipino systems. My list has the Chinese Internal arts on it because for me, Pekiti Tirsia was what I was looking for in regards to the Filipino Martial Arts.

-wes tasker

[Brock]

I think Wes said it best, most of us are currently studying FMA the style or styles we're interested in and would be looking for arts that would copliment what we are doing. I'm a Senkotiros practitioner, and train with some JKD/Kali/Silat people. I'm also looking into doing some BJJ training as well. Kettlebell training is also something on my list to do. Even though I'm only 30, as otheres have said it seems like it'll cause less wear and tear on my body as more traditional weight lifting methods.

[Shaun]

My main system is Lightning,but I am fortunate in that a good friend of mine that teaches Silat Lincah lives fairly close,so I am making an effort to learn this system.
In Lightning we spend so much time using the stick that sometimes it is nice to do the Silat.

[PG Michael B]

I came from Pekititersia and after years and years in the system I made the move into what I found worked better for me, Bahad Zu'Bu KA'LI Ilustrisimo. I also had stops along the way in Various Indo/Malay Silats and Ving Tsun Kuntao.

My lists of things to study is quite simple;

Baji
Kumongo Silat
Nova Scrimia fencing....

For fitness I am beginning the club bell work with Scott Sonnens Into Flow..

And life..studying life and all that it offers in all forms to me is the best teacher..and at times a hard, hard task master.

www.bahadzubuwest.org (http://www.bahadzubuwest.org)
www.yuli-romo.com (http://www.yuli-romo.com)

[puntadas]

and then I want, because this didn't quite work for me...

"a poor workman, blames his tools"

[puntadas]

you guys should try ballet - it'll really put you in touch,
with your hip region ~ the other half certainly doesn't work.

[Jack Latorre]

Puntadas (Joffe)--

I'll bite. I'll take your comments as the poke I believe they were intednded to be.

I don't recall anyone quite saying that their Pekiti-Tirsia did not work. Do you study Wing Chun because your Muay Thai was not functional? It always comes down to the practitioner to make the system work...and hopefully the system is well-structured and designed to begin with. Don't be bitter or sarcastic Mr. Joffe...just practice more.

The idea of looking at and perhaps even studying another martial art is not a martial heresy...not anymore in this age at least. In this age, we may not have to combat another system to analyze and foil it...we can simply walk into a school and take a class to learn about it. And learning about it makes one more educated...whether it is to improve one's one existing body dynamic in an altercation...or perhaps to learn about how other cultures do things. Myopia seems unfitting for you, being a college professor. I'm surprised, given the the time and experience you seem to have on your resume.

By the way, I believe GT Conrado and his brothers looked at and fought other arts/fighters in order to come up with our system, no? Was it because they were 'deficient'...or simply intelligent and brave? I opt for the latter.

There is plenty of room on the planet for all sorts of people who choose to do all sorts of different things...even ballet. Or water buffalo wrestling.

Best,

Jack A. Latorre

[lhommedieu]

and then I want, because this didn't quite work for me...

"a poor workman, blames his tools"

Dear Stephen,

I find it interesting that of all the individuals who took the time to answer the question (what would you study in addition to Pekiti Tirsia, if time and money were not an issue), you're the only individual so far who's decided to take pot-shots instead of providing an honest and amicable answer.

This despite the fact that there are about a half-dozen martial arts that you've studied listed on your resume. Have you decided that all of these arts "didn't work for me" and are thus worthless for anyone else now that you've found Pekiti Tirsia? Do you still study Muay Thai and Wing Tsung?

For what its worth: ballet, although great for opening up the hips and developing core body strength, is probably not a great ancillary art to Pekiti Tirsia for the simple reason that ballet's focus on maintaining the formal aesthetic and postural lines in the body is antithetical to the kind of relaxed torsional body-dynamics that you find in Pekiti Tirsia. I would think that yoga is probably a better fit.

But you see, that's the kind of debatable point that one could address in a martial arts forum - if one were willing to engage the other half of one's being. Perhaps you could use less hip movement when next you decide to post on the forum and more mental flexibility.

Best,

Steve

[gagimilo]

I think that people are forgetting about another point here. Namely, even if you like some style/system it might happen (as it happened to me couple times) that the instructor's personality or the school atmosphere just doesn't fit you well, in spite of all the effort you out in... And I really do not believe in doing something that doesn't make you feel good for doing it.

[lhommedieu]

I think that people are forgetting about another point here. Namely, even if you like some style/system it might happen (as it happened to me couple times) that the instructor's personality or the school atmosphere just doesn't fit you well, in spite of all the effort you out in... And I really do not believe in doing something that doesn't make you feel good for doing it.

Sure - I think that a lot of people on the forum have experienced the same. The opposite is the same: once you've found something that you like you should learn to appreciate it fully.

I think that the part of Tuhon Bill's question that says "if time and money were not an issue" is important here. For example, I listed my preference for learning western fencing. My idea is to spend a couple years on foil and then move on to sabre. I have a friend who has studied both Pekiti Tirsia and San Miguel Eskrima (he likes both) but who came to Filipino martial arts after competing in collegiate sabre tournaments for several years before moving on to coaching. His take was that practicing fencing on this level gives you invaluable skills with respect to distancing and timing (and I would have to agree given that his FMA skill-level was superb even from the very beginning of his training). To the argument that sports-fencing will teach you bad habits (right-of-way, e.g.) that "will get you killed in a real fight," his reply was that, on a national and international level the skill level, of these athletes is so high that it doesn't matter: they can quickly learn the "work arounds" and adapt to more realistic situations if they desire. Learning the rules does not mean that you can't break the rules.

BUT: where am I going to find a fencing instructor that I can afford and when am I going to find the time given that I'm already practicing martial arts, working, and taking care of a family? ANSWER: probably not for a few years; in the meantime, I'm happy with what I'm doing now - and God knows everything that I do can be improved...

Best,

Steve

[puntadas]

Oops!

Very difficult this cyber business - sorry guys,
I just thought Tuhon Bill's thread was rather childish...
if you had time & money - seems to be courting fantasy & for accomplished practitioners, it seems these internet forums are a great place to misguide students ~

Steve: as a practitioner of Chinese Medicine,
surely you understand the 'depth' of Wisdom we're trying to guide people toward? & the idea of possessing money & time is totally counterposed
to this. We're not involved in horizontal thinking.

Jack: not bitter or sarcastic (just grumpy)... I practice 24/7/365 Bro! thanks for the inspiration tho' ~ Again, I find these forums remarkably Myopic, my path in the Martial Arts has involved many 'training methods': Wing Chun, Muay Thai, Pekiti & much more.

Yes! people should reflect on many things... basic intelligence, statement of the obvious.

ps: The Ballet was... how would you put it a Yin style lure, I've followed Ballet since Nureyev - Love it! Aesthetics & Intelligence - gotta make sure we don't end up playing Cowboys & Indians eh! Lads.

[lhommedieu]

Steve: as a practitioner of Chinese Medicine,
surely you understand the 'depth' of Wisdom we're trying to guide people toward? & the idea of possessing money & time is totally counterposed
to this. We're not involved in horizontal thinking...

Stephen,

I am willing to start over. If you were grumpy then, perhaps you are less grumpy now - and I am willing to be less grumpy as well (see my "reasons for editing" subscripts).

I surely do understand "the depth of Wisdom we're trying to guide people towards." Let me respond in a manner more Confucian than Taoist: Given the emphasis in Chinese thought towards the importance of family that includes the practical acknowledgement that in order to care for my family I should (a) not spend money on things that I cannot afford, and (b) use my time as wisely as possible. Chinese medicine is all about balance and certainly the decision to aportion one's practice of martial arts in manner appropriate to one's responsibility to family is an important factor to consider. To do otherwise is to not live a virtuous life. I must also acknowledge that I live in a 21st century Western economic milieu: I must accept fees for my services in order to fulfill my familial responsibilities - don't you have to as well?

Yes, there are time and money constraints on my practice of martial arts, but an acknowledgement of these is an example of holistic, not horizontal, thinking. That is why the martial arts that I do study are complementary to each other. By practicing one I am practicing aspects of another, and spending less time and money than I would be if I were chasing the latest "next best thing."

To return to the theme of this thread: Western fencing is a logical extension of what I do now - but it is not essential and can be appropriately tabled as something that I can do in the future. I don't consider this a fantasy but rather a practical application of acheiving balance in my life.

Best,

Steve

[Ron Kosakowski]

you guys should try ballet - it'll really put you in touch,
with your hip region ~ the other half certainly doesn't work.
Now whats the other half of the hop region?http://fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Ron Kosakowski]

By the way, I meant to spell hip, "h.i.p.

Its been said before that my spelling is horrible!

[Kailat]

GAGILLOMO:

I think that people are forgetting about another point here. Namely, even if you like some style/system it might happen (as it happened to me couple times) that the instructor's personality or the school atmosphere just doesn't fit you well, in spite of all the effort you out in... And I really do not believe in doing something that doesn't make you feel good for doing it.

>> I agree totally. I once studied 7star praying mantis Kung Fu. It was a system I really wanted to understand and learn. But after a few months of getting into it, I found I did not care for how the class was ran and or for the sifu. It was already over an hour half drive one way to class, then it seemed the class was just not what i liked. So i stopped. I've never seen another 7SPM kung fu school around since.

Oh well...such is Indiana...LOL...

[arnisador]

I think that people are forgetting about another point here. Namely, even if you like some style/system it might happen (as it happened to me couple times) that the instructor's personality or the school atmosphere just doesn't fit you well, in spite of all the effort you out in...

Oh yeah, I've been there. It isn't necessarily anyone's fault...sometimes you just have a mismatch.

[Ron Kosakowski]

GAGILLOMO:

I think that people are forgetting about another point here. Namely, even if you like some style/system it might happen (as it happened to me couple times) that the instructor's personality or the school atmosphere just doesn't fit you well, in spite of all the effort you out in... And I really do not believe in doing something that doesn't make you feel good for doing it.

>> I agree totally. I once studied 7star praying mantis Kung Fu. It was a system I really wanted to understand and learn. But after a few months of getting into it, I found I did not care for how the class was ran and or for the sifu. It was already over an hour half drive one way to class, then it seemed the class was just not what i liked. So i stopped. I've never seen another 7SPM kung fu school around since.

Oh well...such is Indiana...LOL...
I think we all did that. I trained in Tang Soo Do before I met my Kuntao teacher. I thought it was great and I felt powerful till my Kuntao teacher put me on my butt rather easily. Nothing against Tang Soo Do, its good for what it is for and thats point sparring. It was the only thing avaliable at the time. Martial arts of all kinds of styles are all over the place these days. People can now pick and choose what is best for them. Or two or three styles that is best for them if they want to and have the time and money.

[PG Michael B]

I think we all did that. I trained in Tang Soo Do before I met my Kuntao teacher. I thought it was great and I felt powerful till my Kuntao teacher put me on my butt rather easily. Nothing against Tang Soo Do, its good for what it is for and thats point sparring. It was the only thing avaliable at the time. Martial arts of all kinds of styles are all over the place these days. People can now pick and choose what is best for them. Or two or three styles that is best for them if they want to and have the time and money.

Ron I agree my friend, there is a plethora of arts once can choose from. I studied Tang Soo Do when I was stationed in Korea (many moons ago) and what I saw over there compared to what is here is like comparing Mars to Mexico...didn't even look the same. Over there it was hard corp banging, weapons you name it, they had it...but then again the teacher was an ROK Marine. It comes down to simple things like intent..the teacher in Korea was a Marine and a tough little sob..he made his Tang Soo Do look like a hurricane in a hen house. I got back state side and pursued it and it looked like bad ballet with cushy foam mittens...hmmm go figure..LOL

[Ron Kosakowski]

Ron I agree my friend, there is a plethora of arts once can choose from. I studied Tang Soo Do when I was stationed in Korea (many moons ago) and what I saw over there compared to what is here is like comparing Mars to Mexico...didn't even look the same. Over there it was hard corp banging, weapons you name it, they had it...but then again the teacher was an ROK Marine. It comes down to simple things like intent..the teacher in Korea was a Marine and a tough little sob..he made his Tang Soo Do look like a hurricane in a hen house. I got back state side and pursued it and it looked like bad ballet with cushy foam mittens...hmmm go figure..LOL
Thats cuz here in the US, law suits take place over development of a kid. My kid is the only one I can train the way it was...and he loves it and goes in for more. The other kids are lazy and always quit. I am an adult teacher anyway...I freakin hate kids class. I do it to make the extra needed bucks.

Anyway, back on topic, I took TSD starting back in the late 60's and believe me it was hard core. There were no pads. That didn't start till the mid 70's. Karate people were hard core in the old days. To me the style does not have the efficient movements I look for in martial arts but they were hard core back then. I think that hard core'ness is what Karate is supposed to develop in an individual more than superior fighting skill.

[Shaun]

Well spoken and true Ron.

There must be a trust between student and teacher.Without this, it is just going through the motions.

[TuhonBill]

Here's an interesting use of technology. Western fencing using wireless contacts for scoring. I would think it will help them get back a more combat oriented footwork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6mA14AsQ_w

Regards,
Tuhon Bill McGrath

[arnisador]

Yes, great idea! I too would think it would be less distracting and would be freeing footwork-wise.

[KaliMike]

Hi Folks,
I didn't see an Introductions thread here so I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Mike Cicoria and I began studying with Tuhon Bill McGrath back in 1998. I know and/or have met and trained with a lot of people that I see on this board.

As far as other arts go I am currently studying Judo, Western Boxing and yoga. I mostly train PTI solo but I am always looking for other training partners in the area(Hudson Valley, NY).

Nice to meet everyone on the board.

Thank you,

Mike

[el maldito de cebu]

i am also interested to study pikiti tirsia but to give my list
1.)yawyan done
2.)taekwondo Done
3.) cacoy doce pares done
4.) judo done
5.)sikaran done
6.)penchak silat sulu done
7.) sanshou not yet
8.) muaythai siam not yet
9.)brazilian juijitso not yet
10.) the art of ninjitsu-juijitso not yet
11.)kung fu not yet
12.) sambo not yet
and lastly 13.) aido samurai
I hope I can learn some of it I'am not absorbing all of it jsut taking what is helpful in my interest to make my skill more battle oriented and combat effective and in the propagation of FMA and preservation of filipino culture it would not make me less a filipino if i will not limit my self to study only filipino martial arts but also foreign martial arts.

Gumagalang
el amldito de cebu

[el maldito de cebu]

Hi Folks,
I didn't see an Introductions thread here so I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Mike Cicoria and I began studying with Tuhon Bill McGrath back in 1998. I know and/or have met and trained with a lot of people that I see on this board.

As far as other arts go I am currently studying Judo, Western Boxing and yoga. I mostly train PTI solo but I am always looking for other training partners in the area(Hudson Valley, NY).

Nice to meet everyone on the board.

Thank you,

Mike
welcome mike!!http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[chubbybutdangerous]

:bow:Greetings to all! I was just in the neighborhood and decided to drop by. I don't currently train pekiti but have in the past. I'm more into an instructor than the art for reasons too many to list. That said, in response to Tuhon Bill's original post...

1) Pekiti Tirsia - I like the mentality of some of the practicioners/instructors I've met. Namely my little bro' Jack and Tuhon Bill.

2) Bahala Na - Met Master Mike Giron and liked what he was able to impart to me.

3) Tai Chi/Hsing-I/Bagua - Always loved the flow and movements. And when my teacher really whacks someone I know he uses some of the internal stuff he learned from these arts.

Again the instructor is more important than the style to me. But every art I mentioned has something I'd be able to make "my own", in other words they were something I felt would be very useful for someone like me. But then again that's also because of the specific instructor(s) mentioned.
Also, the instructors character will have an effect on my decision. As for my current instructor Martin Torres and the others mentioned, all have demonstrated exemplary character.
:armed:

Respectfully Submitted,
Chubbybutdangerous

[selfcritical]

Yes, great idea! I too would think it would be less distracting and would be freeing footwork-wise.

I think it would, although fundamentally the scoring system would have to be changed from the ground up for the weapon techniques to start to resemble actual blade use again.

[geezer]

Again the instructor is more important than the style to me...

Respectfully Submitted,
Chubbybutdangerous

There was a time when I would have argued that the system was the thing, and any competent instructor would do. Now, I'm totally with you on this, Chubbs. I left the martial arts for nearly two decades, in part because my instructor, in spite of being at the highest level, had been such a jerk. Now I'm back because I've met some really great people in two separate arts.

So, if I had the time, money and ability to take on another art, ideally I'd want something different from and complementary to what I'm studying now: Direct Torres Eskrima and NWTO Wing Tsun. A good, practical grappling art would fit the bill, but at 53, it might be a bit hard on the old joints. And for something completely different, I've played a bit with Rapier Fencing. But it's speed and the visual acuity required are a bit tough for me...

...but then there are so many cool things out there. Like you, I think the personality and character of the teacher would probably be the deciding factor. Based on reading this and from what I've heard through the grapevine, Tuhon Bill's Pekiti would fit the ticket too.

BTW I'd like to plagiarise this basic topic of this thread over in the "general" forum. It really is of general interest.

[Pitboss 306]

I have western fencing background and competed a great deal in Sabre throughout school. A couple years of Yang style Taichi, then Kendo, after that before I stumbled into the FMAs. I agree that fencing (sabre particularily) does impart a great deal of base knowledge that can be used/transfered into the Filipino arts (mostly in footowrk, reaction speed, and distancing), though anything resembling a serious combative cleave in Sabre fencing would be red carded for excessive force. Very light single broken strikes are the standard, as opposed to fluid striking or redoubling.

I believe if i could crosstrain seriously, it would be in full-bore reality based sparring in any style.

The usual? A dead limb hanging in the air waiting to be manipulated? A punch with no recoil? A stick swing that stops in mid air waiting to be disarmed? A pre-programmed set or single abdominal knife thrust that stops dead and waits? Grappling with no active resistance on a serious level?

I find, more often than not, that the co-operative element in training is the true enemy to my progress as a martial artist. I have learned more about "functional" martial arts by freestyle rolling on the mat until tap, sparring, or in the parking lot of a bar at 2:30 am than i have doing years of form, or the many cooperative lockflow drills that fail under pressure.

I think that is the relevance of commercial MMA training for reality based players.

If I crosstrained regularily, I really think as long as realistic force and resistance is incorporated, it wouldn't matter the style.

[Heston]

Hello,

I have not actually started studying Filipino arts yet, but I've been a long time lurker and have been looking at all the arts I want to do along with PTK. These systems have been praised a lot on the internet for what they teach.

1) DeCampo 123 for 1 stick and speed
2) Kalideleon for 2 sticks
3) LESKAS for power
4) Sayoc for knife
5) Atienza for fighting many attackers
6) YawYan for empty hands
7) Boltong for grappling

[KAHLBURO]

Good day bro.
i call u a bro bec, just like me u are also a ffa (fil. fighting art) enthusiast.
i'd suggest that u try Bahad Zubu of gm yuli romo.
with all the list that you received of all the fma that you should learn it would seem that you will need all the time in the world. try the old man (he is old but he doesnt move like one) he will answer all your questions regarding all this arts.
mabuhay ka

[KAHLBURO]

Good day to all
Maybe compared to all of you guys i'm just like a seed that is still in the process of growing.
I started practicing bahad zubu last april 2007 all i can say is that i dont need to practice another art bec. BZ is an evolving art/meaning it has no end like the water that is flowing. its not a martial art but a fighting art.There is no advance training or technique but it all goes down to the basic.backhand and forehand, night and day it may all sound like the zen stuff but i believe its the truth. hopefully i can reach that level where im just laughing and just doing the movement , i say movement bec. its all movement he doesn't want to call it a technique bec when you call it that he says its not natural and when its not natural its not reactive and when its not reactive its memorizing and when you memorize ?
...what happens? all im saying is keep an open mind, pride is a no no in BZ try it i will open your mind.Mabuhay kayong lahat

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Hey Kahlburo,

How's the weather in Wyoming?

Adie and "Fabulous" are coming round anytime now to practice today. Maestro is in Camotes with Steven Sym until the 15th so no Sundays for a while :(

How you found any trianing partners over there and how's the job?

Ingat Palagi Pare,

Simon

[KAHLBURO]

how are you doin bro,i can say that i have adjusted to the weather out here,but still hadn't found any practice partners tho,how is your training isaw the latest video of steven and gm yuli,looks good