Kalis Ilustrisimo Repeticion Orihinal

[leedad]

Hi,
I haven't seen any posts regarding Kalis Ilustrisimo Repeticion Orihinal, our school only uses the original teaching passed down from tatang to grandmaster Tony Diego. Shamim Haque is the director in the UK and Ireland.

if you live in London, we have classes held on Tuesdays nights from 8 to onwards.

if anybody would like to know more
Please get in touch

http://www.kalis-ilustrisimo.org/

Thanks
Lee

[arnisador]

What's been added by the other groups?

[Raul]

Good question arnisador!

[sneaky]

If anyone is looking for the art as taught by Tatang KIRO is the way to go in my opinion, GM Diego is a trully valuable source of Tatangs knowlege and a humble gentleman.

With respect,

Jim

Floro fighting systems.

[Twist]

GM Diego is a truly valuable source of Tatangs knowlege and a humble gentleman.

/sign

[Black Grass]

Arnisador asked what has been added by the other groups, I think its more appripo to say what is difference between Kalis Ilustrisimo Repeticion Orhinal (GM Tony Deigo), because everyone has added to what Tatang orginally taught. I am speaking about drills and training methods.

As for added techniques:

Master Rey Galang - Bakbakan Kali (Ilustrisimo)
- Sinawali from pampanga
- Yambao Espada y Daga

Master Topher Ricketts - Kali Ilustrisimo
- nothing

Vince
aka Black Grass
Kali Ilustrisimo
Bakbakan Kali

[Twist]

If I'm not mistaken, Master Topher was head of Bakbakan Manila (well.. Makati), right? Did he teach a different curriculum from R. Galangs? Or did he teach the same and later chose to "go back to the roots" ? And what about the Sagasa? I thought that was kind of Mang Tophers baby?

Hope you can clarify that for me as I'm really interested and would love to meet Master Topher some day - and his son !

[PG Michael B]

Mang Topher did build the Sagasa and is also a seasoned practitioner of NGO Chor under the teachings of Alex CO. Mang Diego also had a very strong background in Balintawak as did Maestro Yuli. They all studied under Tatang and learned the system, but it would be a false statement to say that everything they do is pure 100% Tatang. They are all individual great martial artists and had other influences, just as Tatang had other influences other than his immediate system that he learned from his family. Master Yuli conveyed to me that Tangs ways were solid and based on functionality, he told me that Tang had his family system but had also ways from other people he had learned from, people we may not have ever heard of, people who were not teachers persay. Let us be straight up here. Tang was an adventurer, a seaman, he put in a lot of time in a lot of ports and got into a boat load of shite in many of them. If one thinks he didn't have compadres who were bad asses them selves that he may have learned a thing or two from then I would say you don't know much of the world. A true martialist will pick up something valuable from a rock if he can detract the knowledge from it. This will definitely show up in the tool box somewhere.

I find it refreshing that all the 5 had a different interpretation of Tangs work and built their own ways from said knowledge. This shows true growth and understanding not just mimicry.

Let's keep this thread peaceful and straight forward...it can definitely turn just by the content and the questions asked. No need for BS gentleman we are all family in Ilustrisimo no matter who the teacher. We do Tatang and our Teachers a disservice if we battle between ourselves. Folks we have a treasure trove of gold at our feet from the remaining pillars of Ilustrisimo and the students of Mang Edgar....let us rejoince in this fact and build brotherhods. Let us work with each other and truly promote the Ilustrismo ways and the ways of our teachers. I for one am willing to work with anyone and encourage all of us to build. We are the future of Tangs work in it's many forms, it is up to us to pass it on and to see that our teachers ways are continued. Salamat

PG Michael Blackgrave
BaHad Zu'Bu KA'LI Ilustrisimo
Western HQ SATX

PS. Twist, I spoke with Mang Topher only yesterday. I will be heading to San Diego to train with him as well. Master Yuli was adamant about me working with Mang Topher. Also on my next Las Pinas trip I will be putting in time with Mang Diego as well and hopefully Mang Gelang down the road. I would have loved to train with Mang Edgar but I do plan on hooking up with Guru Gould at some point. I find it extremely important to train with all of them...in this way I feel I can truly grasp Ilustrisimo in it's many forms.

[Black Grass]

If I'm not mistaken, Master Topher was head of Bakbakan Manila (well.. Makati), right? Did he teach a different curriculum from R. Galangs? Or did he teach the same and later chose to "go back to the roots" ? And what about the Sagasa? I thought that was kind of Mang Tophers baby?

Hope you can clarify that for me as I'm really interested and would love to meet Master Topher some day - and his son !

Master Tups is the head of Bakbakan International and is the chief instructor, however Master Rey has been the spearhead in spreading Bakbakan.

Master Rey and Master Topher do teach different curriculum. Master Tups method resembles Master Tony's (from what I have seen and heard, I have never trained with Master Tony). Master Rey's method is more broken down and also uses different terminology kinda similar to PG Edgar's Lameco (e.g. pre-defined striking combinations)

Sagasa is Master Topher's baby, we use the series to develop our Ilustrisimo footwork.

Vince
aka Black Grass
Kali Ilustrisimo
Bakbakan Kali

[arnisador]

because everyone has added to what Tatang orginally taught.

Yes, I suppose that makes sense! Everyone learns something else that they like. I suppose someone has probably subtracted something the don't like as well! But it sounds as though the major players are largely sticking with the basic philosophy and techniques.

[Twist]

Let's keep this thread peaceful and straight forward...it can definitely turn just by the content and the questions asked. No need for BS gentleman we are all family in Ilustrisimo no matter who the teacher. We do Tatang and our Teachers a disservice if we battle between ourselves.
I certainly think/hope that wont happen - I think Tatang did the best possible thing naming his pillars with their own interpretations of his art instead of demanding that they all follow ONE sole heir of his art... that just leads to a lot of trouble.

I think theres nobody denying that there are differences between those pillars / longtime-students of Tatang - and thats a good thing in my book ;)

I was fortunate enough to meet some of them.. and hope to meet the others as well ! Its always a pleasure and a "personal enrichment" (? - if that sounds wrong, its because I dont know how to say what I want to say in English) to meet these extraordinary people.




PS. Twist, I spoke with Mang Topher only yesterday. I will be heading to San Diego to train with him as well. Master Yuli was adamant about me working with Mang Topher. Also on my next Las Pinas trip I will be putting in time with Mang Diego as well and hopefully Mang Gelang down the road. I would have loved to train with Mang Edgar but I do plan on hooking up with Guru Gould at some point. I find it extremely important to train with all of them...in this way I feel I can truly grasp Ilustrisimo in it's many forms.

Damn, dont make me jealous.. I'm working my a** off so I can move to south-east-asia on a longtime-basis ... didnt have much time for anything since I got back from the Philippines.. but if thats the price I've to pay thats fine with me.

Ps: Thanks for your reply, Black Grass .. all questions answered ;)

[Black Grass]

[quote=Twist;26732]I certainly think/hope that wont happen - I think Tatang did the best possible thing naming his pillars with their own interpretations of his art instead of demanding that they all follow ONE sole heir of his art... that just leads to a lot of trouble.

.../quote]

For the record GM Tony Diego is the heir of Tatang, as laid out in the book Masters of Arnis, Kali, Eskrima by PG Edgar. All of the pillars acknowledge this even though they lead there own organization/method.

Vince
aka Black Grass

[PG Michael B]

[quote=Twist;26732]I certainly think/hope that wont happen - I think Tatang did the best possible thing naming his pillars with their own interpretations of his art instead of demanding that they all follow ONE sole heir of his art... that just leads to a lot of trouble.

.../quote]

For the record GM Tony Diego is the heir of Tatang, as laid out in the book Masters of Arnis, Kali, Eskrima by PG Edgar. All of the pillars acknowledge this even though they lead there own organization/method.

Vince
aka Black Grass

Agreed, Mang Tony is the heir, no if's, and, or butts. Mang Yuli recognizes it and applauds it. This however does not belay the fact that they all have contributed greatly to Ilustrisimo and have also built upon it as they deemed fit for their organizations. As Twist said this is a good thing, and I agree in SPADES! They are all highly accomplished and have built solid camps. I hope that all Ilustrisimo can work together. salamat

PG Michael B
BaHad Zu'Bu KA'LI Ilustrisimo
Western HQ
SATX

[Twist]

For the record GM Tony Diego is the heir of Tatang, as laid out in the book Masters of Arnis, Kali, Eskrima by PG Edgar. All of the pillars acknowledge this even though they lead there own organization/method.

Vince
aka Black Grass
Yes, he is the heir of Tatangs style. But I think in naming the other pillars, knowing they have their own interpretations of the style, it was made possible for them to coexist without too much trouble - even though they teach different from Mang Tony. ;)

[Raul]

Yes, he is the heir of Tatangs style. But I think in naming the other pillars, knowing they have their own interpretations of the style, it was made possible for them to coexist without too much trouble - even though they teach different from Mang Tony. ;)When I hear the word five pillars, I see it as five different styles/ methods/systems from the five members of a group. But its erroneous to assume that tatang taught only a single group. There were students of tatang not known to this group and vice versa. There were also students who doesn't belong to any group.

[eome]

Well said raul, i agree with. im not much in mentioning the 5 pillars plainly because there are more practitioners on the side who are unsung.others had passed and others are still with us. could be the pillars or no pillars at all,just the same.all had been under the gran maestros wing.

[JohnJ]

Just chiming in because the label "5 pillars" has been discussed so many times on different forums and readers continue to misunderstand it. As it was shared to me, the term surfaced by one of the so-called "5 pillars" as a means to establish a distinction between KI practitioners exclusively and those who chose to promote the art through other means. These so-called "pillars" were also well seasoned martial artists/instrutors in other areas and were responsible for sharing the art on a global scale, so to speak. This is it!

It has never been said that these so-called "pillars" which btw...includes GM Tony were the extent of Tatang disciples. It is obvious that there are many other loyal and skilled practitioners of KI who were direct disciples such as Romy Macapagal, Pedro Reyes and Robert Morales to name a few as well as a host of 2nd generation players.

I too have to admit that the reference (5 pillars) has been played out but can understand the non-malice purpose of it.

In going back to the original thread title, my question goes to Jim of FFS:

Can you please share your first hand experiences in the Ilustrisimo system as taught by Tatang via Mang Tony (KIRO) vs. say Mang Topher(KI) or Mang Yuli (pre-Bahad)? Just curious as to how your opinion was established.

[sneaky]

Hi John,

PM inbound.

ATB,

Jim

[sneaky]

Hi John,

Upon reading your post again it strikes me as rather confrontational.

Are you suggesting that my opinion is not as valid as anyone else?

Why havent you asked the original poster of this thread what their experience is based on?

I have no interest in being drawn into yet another "us Vs them" style discussion, I have studied KI from an instructor who recieved his instructor status from the head of the system, is that good enough for you?

What is that the reason you chose to single me out to validate my opinion? I dont see where I put anyone down or offended any delicate sensibilities?

I study for my own advancement not to align myself with anyone, I could care less who is a pillar or not, GM Diego is the head of the system as per Tatangs wishes, do you know better? I havent thrown any mud at any instructor here, I am sure all can teach Tatangs art , all I am saying is GM diego is the chosen hier and a valuable source to all FMA students , I hope that covers everything.

ATB,

Jim

[gagimilo]

Hmmm, I must say I did not find John's post as challenging in the sense you were seeing. I would not like to see some unnecessary arguments here, which would only lead us astray from the informative and friendly conversation, like it happened before with the Pekiti section...

[sneaky]

Hi gagi,

I am not looking for any argument, I just made a comment I thought was pretty innoccous paying respect to the head of the system this forum is dedicated too and dont see why I was singled out?

I sent Mr Jacobo a PM outlining my experiences in KI in a friendly way,but IMHO his post directed towards me seems to put in doubt what I posted in my original comment, I would really prefer to avoid an argument but he called me out as it were, my PM answers his question and in the interest of promoting KI as a whole and not factionalising those who practise it in its varied forms I will keep what I sent him between us.

GM Tony is the head of the system fullstop, have I done something wrong saying that?

Respectfully,

Jim

[PG Michael B]

Easy fellas...it's just discussion. Let us keep it civil. Yes Mang Tony is the heir to Tatangs work, and heck yes he is a valuable treasure for ALL of fma..as are all the 5. Let just be glad we have their knowledge to build on, to grow with and to revere. After all it is the fuel that fires our passion and devotion for KA'LI Ilustrisimo.

"let us walk higher than expected with a gate of eloquence" ~MOI

PG Michael B
Bahad ZuBu KA'LI Ilustrisimo
Western HQ
SATX

Simplicity with intent

[JohnJ]

Jim,

I was sending you a reply to your PM but upon stumbling on these posts, I decided to address them first.


Upon reading your post again it strikes me as rather confrontational.

Confrontational??? I asked a simple question and highlighted it because your comment was one of the only posts that remained on the topic of KIRO. Your comment on KIRO "as the way to go for original Tatangs teachings" brought out my question. It is that simple...how was your opinion based? Were you fortunate to experience the teaching methods via Tatangs other disciples that helped you establish a comparison and come to the conlusion of "original". I think it is an honest and fair question.


Are you suggesting that my opinion is not as valid as anyone else?

Not at all. Read above.


Why havent you asked the original poster of this thread what their experience is based on?

Simple. The original poster did not post anything that would warrant a question. He simply started a thread on why KIRO was not discussed. I left it for those who had that experience.


I have no interest in being drawn into yet another "us Vs them" style discussion, I have studied KI from an instructor who recieved his instructor status from the head of the system, is that good enough for you?

Neither do I so why have you taken my question to heart? It was a valid question. When someone suggests somthing, a normal response is "why"?
For some readers/viewers personal experiences are helpul.


What is that the reason you chose to single me out to validate my opinion? I dont see where I put anyone down or offended any delicate sensibilities?

No offense taken. Read my f/u post above.


I study for my own advancement not to align myself with anyone, I could care less who is a pillar or not, GM Diego is the head of the system as per Tatangs wishes, do you know better?

Wonderful! Re: "pillars", this is exactly why I posted. The topic of "pillars" was drawn out again and before readers new to the thread were mislead, I offered the simple explanation. It seems too many people overlook the fact that GM Tony WAS among the "pillars" because he was the heir so as you can see, his position was never in question...not before and not now. Bare in mind, other students who were founders or affiliated with Bakbakan were first to defend/support GM Tony, when some individuals wanted to claim or question it.

You may want to reflect on your tone as it is your posts that seem to surface in a fashion that is confronting.


I havent thrown any mud at any instructor here, I am sure all can teach Tatangs art , all I am saying is GM diego is the chosen hier and a valuable source to all FMA students , I hope that covers everything.

You seem very defensive...no one including myself insinuated anything about your post. Additionally, no one ever questioned GM Tony's position. You are the only one that feels the need to defend for no obvious reason.
Hope this clarifies!

John

[JohnJ]

dont see why I was singled out?

Jim, whether you or anyone else...I would have questioned the post in the same UNconfrontational manner.


I sent Mr Jacobo a PM outlining my experiences in KI in a friendly way,but IMHO his post directed towards me seems to put in doubt what I posted in my original comment, I would really prefer to avoid an argument but he called me out as it were, my PM answers his question and in the interest of promoting KI as a whole and not factionalising those who practise it in its varied forms I will keep what I sent him between us.


You could have easily posted your PM response. If anything, it would have prevented your rather defensive posts and now my replies. You state your interest lies in promoting KI as a whole and NOT factionalizing BUT your suggestion as "KIRO being the way to go" contradicts this statement. To promote an art as a whole is to encourage ANY means of training with ANYONE qualified to teach the art in its entirety, as a sub-system or through personal development.

There is no doubt that KI has evolved into personal interpretations and more. And it is through evolution that the old ways are improved on. Bare in mind, I am merely speaking of training methodologies. The manner in which progression is easier to measure and principles are relayed. This allows the student/practitioners to experience the combat functions as it applies to modern times.

Hope this further clarifies!

John

[sneaky]

Hi John,

If I jumped the gun as it were I appologise.

I took the highlighted text as yelling as it was in bold type, my mistake the written word is easy to take out of context without body language to read or tone to clarify.

I am here to learn more about KI and made what I thought was a harmless post showing respect, I am happy to move on and upwards from here.

Thanks and all the best,

Jim

[jus_dann]

........and I`m just happy to have had learned any KI at all.

it has firmed my foundation in FMA (or MA in general);truely changed my veiws and thoughts as a whole

[Raul]

There is also a KIRO group in Canada directed by Josh Woods and Kevin Haaland.

[Makata]

Easy fellas...it's just discussion. Let us keep it civil. Yes Mang Tony is the heir to Tatangs work, and heck yes he is a valuable treasure for ALL of fma..as are all the 5. Let just be glad we have their knowledge to build on, to grow with and to revere. After all it is the fuel that fires our passion and devotion for KA'LI Ilustrisimo.

"let us walk higher than expected with a gate of eloquence" ~MOI

PG Michael B
Bahad ZuBu KA'LI Ilustrisimo
Western HQ
SATX

Simplicity with intent

+1, 1000%. Personally, I give love , honor and respect to all practicioners of Tatang's Art, from all the branches and Pillars, no matter who they train under...unless I myself am openly disrespected by that person (for what reason, I haven't a clue! It's happened before--and it baffles and saddens me) . As far as I am concerned: Mabuhay ang KI! Mabuhay ang Mandirigma! And let all the warrior flowers from Tatang's soil blossom, spread, and grow! :)

Lester Salvador, Bakbakan International/Ilustrisimo USA

[Black Grass]

There is also a KIRO group in Canada directed by Josh Woods and Kevin Haaland.

Josh told me that Tommy Dy has moved to Vancouver. Vince aka Black Grass

[Raul]

Josh told me that Tommy Dy has moved to Vancouver. Vince aka Black GrassGood news to the Canadian FMAers.

[Twist]

Afaik Tom is back in Manila atm.

[RETIRADA]

An opportunity to learn from him should not be missed.

[Djay]

There is also a KIRO group in Canada directed by Josh Woods and Kevin Haaland.

I have had the chance to train with both Josh and Kevin. They are both very welcoming and generous in sharing their knowledge of KI. They are both great resources as both spent good time training with Mang Tony and the rest of the Binondo group. More recently, Russell (another student of Mang Tony's) has moved to Canada. BC is a hotbed for KI activity!

[RETIRADA]

I agree, the Vancouver area in British Columbia, Canada is fast becoming the hotbed of KI in this province due the presence of Kevin, Josh and Russell.

When Tom Dy Tang visited in 2008, he conducted classes in Vancouver for both the KIOR group and the Ikatan Kali (Ilustrisimo) club.

Manong Norman Suanico has also conducted 3 KI seminars here for the Ikatan club.

The late Edgar Sulite has also conducted a seminar here.

Miguel Zubiri has also presented the art here in the mid-1990's.

Regards,

Louie

[eome]

There are more gentlemen to share their wisdom regarding KI in BC right now. Good news.