Knife Crime in the U.K.

[arnisador]

Is knife crime really getting worse? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3244709.stm)

A discussion of so-called "knife culture" in the U.K.

Exposed: horror of city's knife crimes (http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=637&id=1341852003)

AN ER physician comments on the prevalence of blade wounds; a sidebar lists many related articles (registration may be required).

Exposed: True scale of knife epidemic (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1343952003)

Similar to the above story, again with a sidebar listing related stories.


Doctors' kitchen knives ban call (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm)

Physicians seek a ban on certain types of kicthen knives that are frequently used in domestic violence incidents.

[arnisador]

Stories and web page announcements concerning Operation Blunt, a move to reduce the number of knives carried and hence knife crime:

Operation Blunt (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2005-01-10.206615.h)

Metal detectors used for bus passengers; three arrested.

Knife Amnesty In Bexley - Operation Blunt (http://www.yourcounty.co.uk/news/archive/031105n1.html)

"A knife amnesty will operate for two weeks in Bexley to encourage those who carry them to break the habit and surrender them to police."


Knife-crime battle is stepped up (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4192623.stm)

Operation Noak is part of Operation Blunt and includes knife-surrender bins. "To carry a knife is not cool or glamorous, it is dangerous and a criminal offence."


Bus passengers to be scanned for knives (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/londonnews/articles/15150817?source=PA)


"People using the bus station will pass through the scanner and police officers will be on hand to search people if it is triggered."


Scanning Britons for knife crime (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4078019.stm)


More on the use of metal detectors to find knives.


Cutting out knife crime (http://www.safersouthwark.org.uk/SSP/news2.nsf/docidview/6D80CADB76EEE35780256ED9004D6A3F)


The Met has launched an operation to cut out knives from the streets of London.

Initially piloted in three boroughs - Southwark, Sutton and Hammersmith and Fulham, Operation Blunt will draw on a range of tactics to arrest and deter those involved in any form of knife crime

[arnisador]

THE LAST SAMURAI: JAPANESE SWORDS TO BE BANNED (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16463987&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=the-last-samurai--japanese-swords-to-be-banned-name_page.html)




Home Office Minister Hazel Blears told MPs this week she was "looking seriously" at outlawing the weapons.

A Home Office spokesman said: "We are looking at this matter urgently. We expect to make an announcement shortly." They were made fashionable by films such as Kill Bill starring Uma Thurman.


The story is from last month.

[Damien Alexander]

oh dear god.
This a majorly touchy subject for me,bein a redneck an all whilest living in the uk.
I haven't read all the articles yet,but I just had to point out the "scanning people on buses" garbage.
Just a couple of weeks ago,they announced that they were putting metal detectors in the tube and bus stations....AGAIN.
What they were actually doing was taking ONE walk thru metal detector on ONE day,pick random people to walk thru then taking the ONE metal detector to another location the next day!
And it wasn't even a surprise tactic! They announced in the news what locations they would be in with the ONE detector!
DUH!
What a total failure that was.
As far as banning things,thats the mentality of this "nanny state" we have over here.
We'll just ban everything in sight,only stop people who don't look like a threat and crucify them for wanting to protect themselves from the people who don't give a toss about the law in the first place.
What I love is when you mention carrying something for defense,people are conditioned to know you are reffering to a knife.
I carry a small knife only because you can not get an asp baton here(unless someone wants to send me a care package;-)) or a stun gun or even pepper spray.
The common excuse is to keep these items out of the blah,blah,blah.
we all know the criminals are the only ones who have these things.
2 days ago,a female police recruit was shot responding to a "routine brglary" call. There is no such thing as "routine" when the police are called!
They make the police complaicent and this is what happens.
ALL non-lethal items of self-defense are illegal for one reason and one reason only...
the protection of the police. NOT the citizens.
The gov't REFUSES to educate people here,they just tell you what's good for you and that's that. Don't question!
Oh damn...
my soapbox is cracking!

Sorry.
I'll go read the articles now:)

[arnisador]

Police knife amensty bins dozens of blades
(http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.712426.0.police_knife_amensty_bins_doz ens_of_blades.php)

(The typo is in the original.) A story on the knife amnesty program's progress:



"We still have another week to go, so it is still not too late to bin that knife. As I have said before, my message is clear, anyone caught in possession with a knife will be arrested."

The amnesty was launched last month by Anita Brown, whose teenage son Gavin was stabbed to death, and is due to end next week.


A search of that site for 'knife' certainly turns up many crimes.

Recent BBC News stories:


Action urged over knife sale ban (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4817974.stm)

Force crackdown on violent crime
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/4829780.stm)
Knives illegally sold to teenager
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/essex/4827020.stm)
Lives ruined by blight of knives
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4694170.stm)

[Damien Alexander]

BBC reported today that they are strongly considering putting airport type metal detectors at all tube and train stations in and around london.
It's still won't be mandatory for all to pass through, The police are profiling.
And if you refuse,automatic arrest....Of course.
They are also starting a new "amnesty" run in may as well next month.

I have 2 questions about this:

1- Metal detectors in london....does that mean screw the rest of the country? Especially since a recent survey states that the worst hit stations are OUTSIDE of london.

and

2- What would be a better alternative?
One thing parliament LOVES to do is stomp the total dna out of a dead horse! NOTHING THEY DO WORKS!
So from outsiders points of view,since I am NOT interested in the Brit Law point of view, what would be a better alternative?
Education?
Have the right to defend yourself at ANY cost? Which is severely frowned upon here.
Have the right to ARM yourself? OTHER than knives and guns!

what do you think might work?

[arnisador]

Amnesty aims to fight knife crime
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5010954.stm)




Until 30 June people can hand in knives at police stations in England, Scotland and Wales without fear of penalty.
But police have warned that once the amnesty is over, tough action will be taken on those found armed with knives.

[Damien Alexander]

Amnesty aims to fight knife crime
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5010954.stm)

Once again, waste of time.

Arnisador,

I do appreciate the info you provide here. Some of this we never hear of here inside the UK and some of it is total "bollocks" as the brits love to say.
But I must ask;
why is it that no one else has any say on this matter?
I am always up for a good debate or flat out arguement;-)

Just a question....

Mabuhay

Damien

[arnisador]

Please, start a thread in General or Misc. Knife Arts! I too think it bears more discussion.

[arnisador]

Replica guns seized from collector (http://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/topstories/display.var.1773181.0.replica_guns_seized_from_col lector.php)


Armed police swooped on the flat of a 54-year-old replica pistol collector in Battersea.


They seized 17 replica guns but police admit the man posed no threat to the community.

[arnisador]

Warning on new anti-knife powers (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7418134.stm)

New laws to crack down on knife crime could cause increased hostility among young people, the Children's Commissioner for England has said.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7418134.stm)
New measures are being used by police to search for knives using hand-held and walk-through metal detectors.


The police say the powers are not aimed at victimising young people but are designed to keep them safe.


Sir Al said on BBC Breakfast: "There is a balance here. On the one hand for young people to feel safer by having the presence of the police - but on the other hand making sure the new powers don't create further antagonism by increased stopping and searching.

[arnisador]

Britain grapples with surge of knife attacks (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080720/lf_afp/britaincrimeyouth_080720025452)


Britain is struggling to get to grips with a surge of fatal knife attacks, which analysts say reflects a growing sense of insecurity on the country's streets.

While some say young people are increasingly carrying knives as a fashion item, others say it is simply because they are scared of being attacked and so make sure they are armed.

[Shonin]

We are all castigating and bemoaning the idiocy of the British Parliment. And truly they deserve it, over this issue anyway. But here is an item closer to home. We have at least one candidate and one side of the isle who look very fondly at this sort of foolishness and wish to emulate it here. (Chicago, New York, and D.C. invented this sort of idiocy re: weapons) True, the other candidate and the other side of the isle may not have the stones to much exert themselves to stop it, but at least they've never actively pursued it.

Britain, and to some extent a large part of Europe, is proof of the general rule that the issue is not weapons, but control. The Crown (Government, Legislature, whatever) will tell you exactly what is good for you, and what you can own or not own. Instead of the "everything which is not forbidden is permitted" rule, there are large parts of this country where the "everything which is not expressly permitted is forbidden" rule is in full force. These are two mutually exclusive views of government. The former is closer to the intent of the Founders, the latter to -- well, you fill in the blanks.

For instance, here in DC where citizens have "supposedly" regained the right to keep a handgun in their home, the victory is completely hollow (at least until a lot more lawsuits get won). The City Council has set up a Catch 22 which makes it virtually impossible to actually take possession of a weapon, even though you may, technically, own it -- if you can get it, that is. The issue has never been "safety", it has always been control. And of course on one hand they say things like "only criminals need semi-automatic weapons" -- and on the other, if they really mean that why do they give them to the Police? (The Police, especially here in DC are incredibly hard working and have a thankless job. The garbage that comes out of the mouths of politicians and their lackeys is profoundly insulting to them.)

Back during the gas lines of the 70's when Congress passed the "right turn on red" law in an attempt to save idleing at stoplights, DC put "No turn on red" signs at over 90% of their intersections. They simply believe that people are too stupid to do things for themselves. Just like now they think people are too stupid to safely own a firearm. Again, the issue was never safety, it was control. Weapoons, and the right to own them, guns, knives, whatever, are symbolic of freedom from that control. That is why the Left gets so apoplexic over their existence.

Briton, having been pretty successful on banning firearms (at least among the law-abiding) has now started in on edged weapons. This will be duplicated here in the US as soon as can be arranged -- I virtually guarantee it. (And those who trust in the lack of cupidity of their legislators should remember that back when they were debating the 16th Amendment it was proposed to limit the tax rate at 10% (I think). That was shot down as being too ludicrous to waste time on since it was inconceivable that taxes would ever get that high. As Kipling says, "once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane".

Our rights to own weapons are looked upon completely as political fodder to be barganed away for larger issues. Truly, as P.J. O'Rourke has written, "a parliment of whores". Think about this next November.

[lhommedieu]

Having just returned from Europe I thought I'd reply with a couple of observations about my experiences there.

One issue that is probably pertinent is that I was travelling as an obvious middle-aged tourist with a large extended family (grandparents, uncles, aunts, kids, etc.) in upscale, "touristy" areas. The context is obviously different than the situation descibed in #4 below.

Also keep in mind that my pocket knife is a sub-4" Benchmade AFCK with pocket clip - it's a fairly innocent looking knife, and a folder vs. a fixed blade knife: See #4 below. It came in handy several times while cutting/opening objects for which scissors or similar tools would have been inadequate. In short, my pocket knife looks like and is used as an everyday tool. I carried my knife inside my pocket without using the clip. For airline travel I packed my knife in my check-in luggage.

I only spent a day in Amsterdam, and did not carry a knife there, so I'll confine my remarks to the Provence region of France and Paris.

1. I saw French-style knives (the kind with the curved end and ring lock) available for purchase in practically every tourist shop and boutique in Provence. These ranged from ordinary to high-end knives, and were in some cases twice the size of my folder. There did not seem to be any prohibition against buying and carrying these knives, although I could be mistaken about the carry issue.

2. I was in Paris around Bastille Day (July 14th). Security was not an issue even though I was scanned at several tourist areas (e.g. the Tour Eiffel) during my stay in Paris. Upon reflection these scans seemed aimed against exposive devices as they were directed towards bags, carry-ons, etc. - the scans did not pick up the metal in my small knife any more than they would have picked up a camera, etc. Police presence was strong with several two-five person teams carrying automatic machine guns walking through the crowds at 5-10 minute intervals.

3. The only issue I had was at the Musee d'Orsay when I placed my knife on top of my wallet and keys prior to going throught a metal detector. (I had forgotten to leave my knife at home and admitted that it was brainless to bring one to a museum.) The security guard asked for a supervisor and I was escorted to the coat check room and given a ticket to retrieve my knife after my visit. When I returned to the coat check room it was hanging up in plain sight in a plastic bag. This seemed a reasonable reaction to the problem and did not seem untypical.

4. While reading the Herald-Tribune in my hotel lobby I came across an article from the U.K. that described rising knife violence against poor British youth by poor British youth (i.e. gang violence aimed at innocent kids). The article described how some poor kids who felt threatened by criminal elements in their neighborhoods were increasingly carring knives for self-protection. Most knives carried, according to the article, with kitchen knives. One theme of the article was that, whereas several MP's were urging arrest and incarceration for the mere possession of knives by anyone, other community leaders criticized this "solution" to the problem as a knee-jerk reaction after several years of inaction and ineffectial leadership re. the issues of poverty and unemployment that effect these poor neighborhoods.

Best,

Steve

[LabanB]

Hi Steve,

That seems a reasonable view of the world over here in Europe.

One issue though: (i.e. gang violence aimed at innocent kids).

A number of the "innocent" kids have later been shown to be part of an opposing gang, dealing in drugs etc. Time and again the story has hit the news "innocent victim of knife crime", a couple of days later we get "innocent victim was part of/related to violent gang". Its generally, although not exclusively gang member to gang member violence we are seeing here.

The French have always taken a more reasonable view of the world, and certainly their leaders (ignore them until they do something totally unacceptable, then trash the place!).

Bill

[Damien Alexander]

I train a few LEO's here in london and they all have said that
the "sudden upsurge" of knife crime is actually bogus in terms of statistics.
Knife has stayed the same for about 10 years now,the only difference is the age of the offenders.
The media is playing it up like some kind of epidemic.
Also,they refuse to admit that education is the key.
Not the moronic view of "let's ban everything in sight" approach.
They seem to think if they keep making it front page news everyday, then people will get scared and turn to poppa parliament for guidance.
It hasn't worked for 100 years,it ain't gonna work now.

But that the *stiff upper lip* for you :/

[Damien Alexander]

I train a few LEO's here in london and they all have said that
the "sudden upsurge" of knife crime is actually bogus in terms of statistics.
Knife crime has stayed the same for about 10 years now,the only difference is the age of the offenders.
The media is playing it up like some kind of epidemic.
Also,they refuse to admit that education is the key.
Not the moronic view of the "let's ban everything in sight" approach.
They seem to think if they keep making it front page news everyday, then people will get scared and turn to poppa parliament for guidance.
It hasn't worked for 100 years,it ain't gonna work now.

But that the *stiff upper lip* for you :/

[arnisador]

Lethal Star Trek blade seized in knives amnesty (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-387680/Lethal-Star-Trek-blade-seized-knives-amnesty.html)


This horrifying five-foot weapon has been recovered by police during a knife amnesty.

The three-handled sword with a blade at either end, designed to be swung like a paddle, shocked officers who took custody of it.
[...]
Mr Blair said: "We are giving urgent consideration not just to banning a whole series of knives but also making sure that there is some minimum sentence."

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

It's the U.K all over.

Check out the Policeman's expression , the adjectives "horrifying: "shocked" etc, etc.

Now, if some guy intent with bad intentions decided to take that outside don't you think somebody would see him??? Isn't it a bit conspicuous?!!

I'd be more afraid of a concealed kitchen knife. You'd have to be pretty skilled to land with that beast above too. I like it!

[arnisador]

It's the U.K all over.

Check out the Policeman's expression , the adjectives "horrifying: "shocked" etc, etc.

That's what struck me. Here it'd be played as a joke.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Sadly not there. After observing that most ER stab wound admissions were caused by Kitchen Knives they actually tried to ban kitchen knives with points at the end... Using the same logic they should ban cars, cigarretes, thunder & lightning, etc, etc.

What you also must understand is that if a kid is knifed it makes the front pages of the national newspaper, TV, etc, etc.

Is it like that in the U.S or would it just be the local ones I wonder?

[arnisador]

Just the local papers. Gun crime is what gets more attention here. Banning knives? It sounds odd!

Here's a story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm) on the kitchen ban!

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

You can just imagine a nation tucking into their Sunday roast with plastic cutlery can't you!

Selling the weapons as I do I keep a check on the stupid laws coming in. You should see how they've banned samurai swords because 4 people or so were killed with one...That one is debatable but I think the letter of the law is "Straight swords over 50cm" or something so it encompasses a heck of a lot more than Samurai.

Unfortunately this kind of attitude from the article prevails:


They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.

Simple. It wasn't the drugs. Or the alcohol. Is those damn knives again :(

I remember in Clockwork Orange Alex impulsively beat to death a homeowner with a giant phallus. It happened to be "at hand" (no pun intended)....

[Shonin]

We have a couple of imperious arrogators on the ticket for November who in the past have explicitly stated that they are all for banning anything that cuts, goes bang, is heavy, whatever. The right to own weapons, (hell, the right to own anything) is really up for grabs more than ever before. They don't get to make law by fiat, but they can make it very difficult for anyone intersted in personal defense. These two consider ownership of weapons (or anything that could be a weapon) as something to be barganed away for other ends.

Of course none of this would affect them. They are surrounded with a detail of people carrying things that cut, go bang, and are heavy.

There may be a host of reasons for disliking the other side of the isle. But I assume that most of the people in this forum like weapons, like being able to own them, and like the presumption of innocence if and when they are forced to resort to self defense.

Perhaps it is just an old man being cantankerous, but I feel like my gunsafe is in far less in jeopardy with one outcome in November than with another.

Shonin

[Pat OMalley]

Selling the weapons as I do I keep a check on the stupid laws coming in. You should see how they've banned samurai swords because 4 people or so were killed with one...That one is debatable but I think the letter of the law is "Straight swords over 50cm" or something so it encompasses a heck of a lot more than Samurai.

Unfortunately this kind of attitude from the article prevails:

My wife's company sells swords, a lot of which are to the UK market and the law actually states that it is 'Swords of 50cm or over with a CURVED blade' and yes this can cover many blades, but we have talked to the Home Office in details and they are still constantly reveiwing the wording of the law as this law is aimed specifically at the cheep imitation Samurai type swords.

Samurai Swords are not actually banned in the UK. If you are a martial arts practioner that uses a traditional Japanese Sword for your martial arts practice, as long as you can proves that this is the purpose of your ownerships then you are allowed to own one and use it to practice with and this is as simple as showing a copy of your martial arts licence to the company that is selling the sword to you. Secondly, if you are a collecter of traditionally made and / or antique Japanese (Samurai) Swords and can prove this then you are legally allowed to own them.

You have to look at the companies that where in part responsible for this so called ban comming about, there where a couple of companies that where flooding the UK market with cheep imitation Samurai and Ninja swords, these could be bought from any tourist shop, sea side trinket shop for around £20 ($30 USD) each. These for want of a better word where mere wall hangers and had no use at all to the serious martial artist who wished to practice with them, but as explained they where for display (wall hanging) only, you had to also ask yourself 'Why did they need to be sharp?'.

Now because they became so readily available and so easy to come by and you did not need a licence to own one, any one from the age of 16 years old could simply walk in to a shop with their $30 USD and hey presto they where the proud owner of a cheep imitation 'Sharp' Sword.

Because of this, their use in crime increased which yes resulted in the death of no less than 8 people (not 4), this may not sound such a large number but the actual use of this weapon in crime had vastly increased and the 8 death's where just the tip of the iceberge. So really when you look at it, the companies that swamped the market with these cheep imitations also have a lot to answer for with regards to the so called ban.

Next we have to look at the politicians, on the advice of the Police who had seen a vast increase in the use of these readily available cheep 'imitation' weapons and the public outcry the Governement felt obliged to take action but at the same time they did not wish to stop the serious collector and serious martial artists from owning real Japanese swords hence the so called ban occured in the way that it has. It is not a ban per say, it is restricting the ownership to those who have a valid and serious reason to own the real thing.

And yes it can seem a bit like a knee jerk reaction and in a way it also does the Governement a favour in that it makes them look good in the eyes of the public and this helps to win votes, plus it also takes the mind of the public off other serious policies that are not working for the Governement, such as the constant rise in taxes, fuel and other hidden policies that they would rather you did not notice.

Now lets look in the so called rise in knife crime, in reality the British public are far safer now per head of population than they ever where in the time of Queen Victoria when individuals where allowed to carry guns and swords in public as a matter of self defence and as a symbol of status, but what differs here the speed at which news can be relayed to the general public and the sensationalising of the news by the media, no sensation no sale as far as the news goes.

They say more and more teenagers feel the need to carry a knife to feel safe, why? Because the news has told us that knife crime is vastly on the increase when in reality it is no different than it was 10 years ago and far better than it was over 100 years ago. But what it does do is make the public feel unsafe and the Governement can then step in to be seen to be doing something about it, hence putting the public's mind at ease and all at the same time take their mind off the policies that are not working and the fact that no matter what they try to tell you, taxes and fuel costs are still on the increase.

For instance, the price of oil is now back to the same price as it was two and a half years ago, yet the price of fuel at the pumps is far in excess to what it was two and a half years ago, but we are not complaining as it is comming down slowly and we are more concerend with this so called rise in knife crime arn't we?????

I was brought up in a gang culture as a kid and I feel no less safe now than I did back then, and I dont feel the need to carry a knife either as I did when I was a teenager.

As for the knife ban, that is never going to happen, after all if it did, how would a cook or cheif work without a knife, how would a construction worker do his job withour a knife, how would you prepare food and eat in your own home without a knife and the politicians know all too well that this is so.

Years ago they banned what was then known as 'Combat Knives', within a week these very same knives where still being sold but now renamed as 'Fishing or Hunting Knives'. Now we all know if they ban knives, they would have to ban a particular knife and that may rid us of a few minority items but would never rid us of knives, but they have to be seen to be doing something and they need something to take our minds off of the policies that are not working.

In the UK it is ilegal to carry any knife unless you have a good reason e.g. You are a construction worker carrying out his duties on site or you are travelling to and from your place of work, same goes for kitchen staff.

As a LEO how would you look at me if you searched me as I was on my way to a night club carrying a box cutter and or utility knife, what purpose or reason would I have to be carrying such a knife to such a place. The laws are there to arrest people for carrying ilegal weapons and many people are arrested, the only problem here is, when they are arrested the do gooders who are more interested in the human rights of a criminal make it so difficult for the people who wish to see justice done that very few every get serious sentances handed out, hence they are back on the streets carrying their ilegal weapons and doing what they do best.

Also on the other hand if rough justice was meeked out to everyone who did not have a good reason to be carrying a knife we simply would have no where to put them in our already overflowing prisons. We know the simple solution to this is to build more prisons, but that would mean the Governement would have to actually spend real money and take real action to solve the problem of knife crime, and we are talking a whole lot of money. It is far far cheeper for them to scare the public into beleiving that the problem is worse than it is, then wait for the outcry for a ban, be seen to be banning it and still have that much needed millions in the coffers for them to squander away on things we dont actually need.

It is one thing saying look this is banned and that is banned and isn't it disgusting that they are taking away my rights to go out and stab the bad guys it is another to accept that the reality of it is, is not all is what it seems to be and you are not as hard done by as they would have you beleive.

Back to the so called Samurai sword ban in the UK. Take a serious look at it and ask yourself who actually lost out in this so called ban? First the criminal who can no longer pick up a cheep imitation sword with no questions asked and secondly the companies who flooded the market with those cheep imitiations. The serious martial artist who has nothing to fear from the law and is a member of a reputable martial arts organisation can still gain easy access to ownership of a Japanese Sword as can the serious collector of the same weapons.

Do you honestly think any Governement can seriously beleive banning knives will be possible let alone be taken seriously, no of course it cant, they know full well a lot of industry would halt witout it, and every household in the land would halt without it, but they have to be seen to be doing something and if they can do it and take your mind of the policies that are not working then they have saved themselves a lot of time and money.

Best regards

Pat

[Pat OMalley]

What I forgot to mention:

During the 2 years of discussion regarding the so called Samurai Sword Ban there was about 4 major pettitions raised getting people to sign against the so called ban. And in all this time the Governement where in discussions with the relevant recognised governeing bodies of martial arts systems that used Japanese Swords, Collectors, Re-enactment groups, Actors and the Manufacturers, all of whom may well have good reason to own such weapons.

But guess who raised the pettitions? The very same companies that where swamping the market with the cheap sharp imitations that where becoming so readily available to every Tom, Dick and Harry and each time one of these pettitions reach what these companies thought was a Zenith they would launch an advertising campaign telling people to hurry and buy their Samurai Swords before it was too late. Surprising huh!

And people seemed surprised when neither me, my wife or her company signed any of the pettitions. People kept telling us it would affect us and we would suffer from it and peoples rights where being taken away from them. Well it did not and we are not and the rights of the honest citizen who has good intentions with regards to these weapons can still legally own them.

Now if for some reason the Governement decide to make all swords fall under the same law of companies having to make a register of all those who buy swords from us and that our customers have to prove their age, I.D. and the purposes for them owning a sword, then OK it will affect us in that we will have to keep accurate records and be accountable as a responsible trading comapny. A bit extra paperwork is about all it will give us and if that is a price to pay that helps prevent weapons be easily available to and from falling into the wrong hands then for me that is not a bad thing is it.

I personally do not want to be responsible for deliberately selling any weapon of any kind to an individual that may use for the purposes of crime, do you?

We will never irradicate the fact that criminals will get weapons no matter what but, if it is a chioce beween making it easier of harder for them I know which route I would take. What about you?

Imagine if US Law decided to take away the law making it ilegal for criminals to own firearms? We know the law makes it ilegal for them to have them does not stop them having them, but if they are caught with them are the not arrested and dealt with? Now if that law was taken away? Not only would criminals be allowed to openely own firearms, they would be able to purchace them legally too, Imagine the concequenses of that? And this massive demand for legally own easy to get firearms would drive the cost of firearms down to such a level that any Tom, Dick and Harry would be able to have one. Imagine what chaos that would cause? Now you find yourself having to buy more and more guns, they get bigger and better, you follow suit and the law cant stop them because it is legal, one day all hell would break loose.

Dont get me wrong I am not against the honest citizen owning weapons for self protection, I am all for it and I think the law is an ass in many instances in the UK when it comes to defending yourself and those around you, but something has to be done too to make it more difficult for the wrong people to be able to own such items and if you have nothing to worry about with regards to the law then you have nothing to worry about regarding the restrictions of ownership of Samurai / Japanese Swords in the UK, for as the law stands you can for the right reasons still own them.

Best regards

Pat

[Pat OMalley]

They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon. Drugs are ilegal and can be responsible for a lot of crime, but the truth of the matter is the majority of assualts are alcohol related whether with or without weapons. Now do you honestly think any UK Government is going to ban alcohol bearing in mind just how much revenue it gathers from alcohol? No of course not, this has about as much chance as them banning kitchen knives. But they have to be seen to be doing something and it helps keep your mind of other policies that are not working.

There is a campaign at the moment to increase taxes on alcohol which they state will cut down the number of people abusing alcohol, especially the younger generation and this in turn should cut down crime shouln't it????

Well drugs are ilegal and cost a bob or two but we dont see a decrease in drug abuse or the crimes related to it do we?

What they are doing is simple, they are dressing up the fact that they want to increase taxes for the simple reason they want to increase taxes, nothing more and nothing less, but to dress it up and say it will help to cut down on alcohol related crime is a good way to get you to agree for them to increase taxes isn't it???? We all know it will not bring down the number of alcohol related crime, only good Policing and following through with the proper legal action will have any dent in this area, and there lies the problem does'nt it, the real answer cost money and the political answer makes money, which one do you think they are going to take???

Best regards

Pat

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Thanks for the correction Pate regarding the "curved" part...


I personally do not want to be responsible for deliberately selling any weapon of any kind to an individual that may use for the purposes of crime, do you?

We will never irradicate the fact that criminals will get weapons no matter what but, if it is a chioce beween making it easier of harder for them I know which route I would take. What about you?I agree and an example for me is wooden knuckle dusters. To my knowledge they are not illegal per se and I have seen people selling them for a price far higher than what I could possibley get them for.

(On a side note I had a regular, trusted customer who wanted one and I spent an eventful afternoon trying them on around Manila as the finger holes were too small and my wife had to prize them off me before my fingers fell off..LOL).

I just want to sell things that help people's training and for me it would be unlikely to use a knuckle-duster in training. So I don't sell them in 99.9% of cases. I very rarely sell "Live" blades too but when I do they are not the garden $30 variety that I have seen elsewhere for sale.

To finish I remember selling at a trade fair recently and a youth picked up an aluminium trainer and asked me:

"Can this do proper damage?" :(

[Pat OMalley]

Thanks for the correction Pate regarding the "curved" part...

I agree and an example for me is wooden knuckle dusters. To my knowledge they are not illegal per se and I have seen people selling them for a price far higher than what I could possibley get them for.

(On a side note I had a regular, trusted customer who wanted one and I spent an eventful afternoon trying them on around Manila as the finger holes were too small and my wife had to prize them off me before my fingers fell off..LOL).

I just want to sell things that help people's training and for me it would be unlikely to use a knuckle-duster in training. So I don't sell them in 99.9% of cases. I very rarely sell "Live" blades too but when I do they are not the garden $30 variety that I have seen elsewhere for sale.

To finish I remember selling at a trade fair recently and a youth picked up an aluminium trainer and asked me:

"Can this do proper damage?" :(

Hi mate, was that at Seni as that sounds very much like a Londoner's responce. But I know what you mean.

My wife no longer sells live blades after she got a phone call one day from a woman who wanted to buy a live Kris Sword, my wife asked 'who is it for?', 'My 12 year old son' she replied. My wife said 'Why would he want a live blade, it is not as if he can train properly with it without cutting his training partner is it?, 'I think he should have one' She replied.

My wife refused to sell it to her and from that point on refused to sell live blades at all as she said she would feel guilty if it fell in to the wrong hands or in to te hands of a child.

Knuckle Dusters are illegal here in the UK and have been for many years as are Balisong Knives as they where commonly used by the criminal fraternity and more importantly the football hooligans on a regular basis and anyway how would you train with them?? I am sure your training partner would not be too happy about being smacked in the mouth with one during a training session.

I have a couple of youngsters in my organisation and I refuse to even let them have metal training knives until I know for certain they are mature enough to respect the weapon, they start off with a short peice of stick and I may allow them to progress to a wooden dagger when I feel they are inteligent enough to realise they are not to be fooled around with. I often see some groups that let young kids run around with metal training blades teaching them how to cut and stab, what these people are doing is desensatising our youth about these dangerous weapons which I feel does not help in preventing people from carrying and using knives in arguments, especially youngsters who would not be mature enough to realise the consequences of their actions.

Best regards

Pat

[Pat OMalley]

As a child and youth I was brought up in a Gang Culture both in Glasgow, Scotland where I was born and in Hackney, London where I spent most of my youth. I was surrounded by knives and knife crime all the time and to me it was the norm, I was not unusual to go to pre-arranged gang fights that had a whole manner of edged weapons and I seen on more than one occasion the serious damage it can cause both physically and mentally.

It is only in the past 2 years the the British Government has finally admited what we already know. Britian is now officially a knife culture. It always has been but now they have found an excuse for it, they say we have become one because of the large influx of Eastern European Nations to our shores. Sorry but they have been comming here for hundreds of years and it is only now that they are to blame for our love of knives in crime????

The truth of the matter is, the Governement does not wish to admit it's own failings in dealing with knife crime and will use anything to pass the buck, Alcohol, Drugs, Other Nations, but never its own lack of commitment to dealing with the problem face to face.

Now in Scotland in more recent years under there laws they have adopted a zero tollarance attitude to carrying knives, If you are caught carrying any blade and you are not in your workplace using it, your arrested and sentanced, no questions ask, no excuses, no oh we feel sorry for you as you have had a bad up bringing so we will let you off this time approach. Your arrested and sentanced plain and simple, get caught a second time then your doing serious time.

Has it stopped knife crime? No of course not, bad people will still do bad things no matter what laws you pass and enforce, but it has cut it dramatically. It is a policy that is working but does the Governement adopt these same tactics in England and Wales, no of course not, they want to put taxes up on alcohol as they feel this will help solve the problem. What they mean is they will make money from the tax raise as opposed to having to spend money by dealing with the problem head on.

Now if they said they where rasing taxes on alcohol in order to build more prisons so they can lock up more people that are involved in alcohol and drug related crime, I could live with that and I could beleive it, but to tell me that putting a few pence on a pint of beer, a glass of wine or whiskey will somehow stop people going out, getting drunk and committing crime.... Well do they really think the public are that stupid??? Probably yes.

Best regards

Pat

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

:cussing:Great parenting that isn't it!

Yeah, that was @ Seni. I actually had to listen quite hard to distinguish if it was English or not. Whilst he was carrying on one of his girlfriends walked off with a stick too. We got it back though.

The knuckleduster was a sale to the U.S and metal and plastic ones are definitely illegal (to my knowledge) on ebay.com which tends to follow california weapons laws I think. Could well be wrong.

The point still remains that it is unlikely to be used in some "educational" capacity. Unless the education involves loosing a few teeth...

Anyway, it's not all that bad...at least the British aren't scrabbling around trying to buy machine guns before they're banned :(

[Pat OMalley]

:cussing:Great parenting that isn't it!

Yeah, that was @ Seni. I actually had to listen quite hard to distinguish if it was English or not. Whilst he was carrying on one of his girlfriends walked off with a stick too. We got it back though.

You should have heard my London accent when I was younger, it has had to soften a lot since I have tavelled the world, I even use to use a lot of the Cockney Ryming Slang which was even hard for those outside London to understand.

As for the girlfreind walking off with a stick at the show, yep they do that and you have to keep your eyes on the game all the time, I have had a few incidents of people trying all sorts of tricks with us at the Seni, but when they see me scowling at them with a large Kamagong in my hands they politely put it back :wink3:




Anyway, it's not all that bad...at least the British aren't scrabbling around trying to buy machine guns before they're banned :( Too true, and they think we have it bad over here, they are always moaning we live in a Police State, Ha! I have been to a few Police States over the years and they have no idea how good they have it here and how easy they have it even when they do commit crimes. And there is the problem, we dont deal with criminals harshly enough here and they know it and are no frightened by the law. Hence at times our law is an ass.

I have trained many LEO's over the years and they get so frustrated when they do their part and then the law lets the idiots off with light sentances of a bit of community service.

Best regards

Pat

[el maldito de cebu]

they should promote seminars for knife technique counters. if the criminals not knowledgeable of doing the thing. then sure they could fight crimes with it surely the criminals would be in shame if civilians could disarm and break there arms if breaking criminals peripherals please dont give compassion but please break it permanently so that they would not victimized some one else anymore.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

They can not promote "Knife-fighting" seminars or similar names in the U.K as the police will stop the seminar. One of my training bros had his class shut-down after it was visited by the police. They said he was using live blades in training! (He obviously wasn't) So they had to move to another location after it was brought up by the local council:(

It's a sad state of affairs - especially when any aspiring nutjob can watch youtube and pick up a lot of fundamentals anyway.

[el maldito de cebu]

well I guess its the responsibility of the state if the crime rate related to knife crimes would increase, because some of us FMAers would help but then caught by police because of what we think was needed to educate the public. people would get in trouble because of thier ignorance, the only way to solve crimes is to fight back.

[Pat OMalley]

They can not promote "Knife-fighting" seminars or similar names in the U.K as the police will stop the seminar. One of my training bros had his class shut-down after it was visited by the police. They said he was using live blades in training! (He obviously wasn't) So they had to move to another location after it was brought up by the local council:(

It's a sad state of affairs - especially when any aspiring nutjob can watch youtube and pick up a lot of fundamentals anyway.I think I know the seminar your talking about, a Cheif Inspector of the Metrapolitan Police contacted me about it asking my opinion on the guy, whom I personally did not know and the main concern was that there was an increase in knife crime in the area the seminar was located and they where concerned that this was an open to the public seminar covering knife fighting so you can understand their concerns. Via our network on the British Council of Kali Eskrima Arnis Instructors I managed to find out who the guy was and the council rep for this particular style contacted him telling him of the problems of promoting and teaching such an event to the public.

We always adivse that you do not teach 'knife fighting' to the general public but rather teach and promote knife defence and awareness and any knife fighting training should only be taught to your trusted students as you never know who you are teaching those skills to in a public seminar situation.

Once I seen the posters promoting the event I and many others on the BCKEAI including the Council representative for the system could see why the Police had major concerns and that his advertisement could be seen by them and the public as a danger but I think it was his lack of expeariance in promoting an event that was mainly at fault here and his over zealousness to promote his public image as an FMAer.

Hopefully our advise and the intervention of the Police and their concerns has helped him to re-evaluate what he teaches and to whom and where?

Best regards

Pat

[Pat OMalley]

well I guess its the responsibility of the state if the crime rate related to knife crimes would increase, because some of us FMAers would help but then caught by police because of what we think was needed to educate the public. people would get in trouble because of thier ignorance, the only way to solve crimes is to fight back.I agree with you in some respect, but the concerns in this instance is that the gentleman in question was promoting and teaching an open seminar on 'knife fighting' to the general public in an area of increasing knife crime, and with the governments concerns and publicity telling us that it is a major problem the Police had no other chioce but to investigate this seminar futher.

How would you feel if someone in your area was teaching an open public seminar on 'knife fighting' and you knew several criminal elements where intending to attend such an event?

Would you be more concerend that certain criminal elements have now picked up a new skill to help them in their victimisation of the public?

Surely the Police would also be concerned that there is now a possibility that some criminals have attained such skills? Their concerns would also be raised in that at some point they would have to arrest these individuals and they would know with such skills, (a skill the Police dont have) their lives would be at an even greater risk, now can you see why they are concerned?

Would you feel more comfortable if the same event was teaching knife awareness and defence against edged weapons attack to the public or do you beleive that 'knife fighting' skills are a good thing to teach just anyone?

It goes back to being responsible even if indirectly to someone being victimised by the skills you have shown someone else, I dont know about you but that would not sit confortably with me at all.

Best regards

Pat

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Not sure of the specifics Pat and would have to ask. That incident may be something seperate to the one I know about.

Obviously there has to be some sense to the issue and terming things "Knife fighting" is in poor taste and open to abuse / justified criticism. I will ask before posting more.

I do know that not everybody is comfortable belonging to organized unions. Having said that if it comes to becoming more respectable in the eyes of the police it is adviseable if you wish to teach openly.

[Pat OMalley]

What you have to understand is that just recently a young man had murdered his parents and a frenzied knife attack, he then went to a rock concert where he phoned home in order to give the impression he did not know anything about it.

Now once the Police arrested him they had found a couple of FMA DVD's teaching 'knife fighting', the media got hold of this and low and behold all of a sudden he was a martial arts 'Expert/Master' and an FMA knife fighting expert?

This person got life of course but did not do the FMA image any good.

In an unrealted incident there was a very large robbery that occured around the same time that was all over the news around the world, there was some serious violence during this robbery, most of the robbers where eventually caught and most of the money was found, but not all.

Shortly after the robbery happened I had the national newspapers come to my house even though I was based some 300 miles away from the incident, they where asking me if I new one guy in particular who was considered as one of the ring leaders. I knew several of them as a matter of fact, but the one individual they where asking about was actually on the 1994 WEKAF British Stickfighting team where I was one of the team coaches, And I knew him and a few others had a good understanding of FMA.

While this individual was being chased by armed Police he jumped out of his car with his stick and was shouting abuse and threatening them, they eventually got him under control and arrested him and he and the others are now spending a long time in Prison.

It was not that long after these two incidents that an FMA Knife Fighting Seminar was being promoted in the London area. So maybe now you can see, 2 incidents that do not put FMA in a good light and another incident that can look as if it is backing up their fears about the FMA?

Now can you see how the Police are looking at it?

Best regards

Pat

[arnisador]

It was like this in the NYC bouncer case (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=384) too--once they found he had studied the FMA he was labeled a "knife nut" and that was that.

[Pat OMalley]

The FMA although growing in the UK is still a tight community, everyone in it knows everyone, so when something bad happens that dents the image we can all suffer simply because we all know each other. And with the British Press the way it is we tend to get tarred with the same Brush.

But the Police do know of the BCKEAI and the good reputation it has, hence they contacted me and the Council raising their concerns about the Seminar I am talking about.

We have quite a few LEO's within the ranks of the BCKEAI and quite a few of us teach them on a regular basis.

Best regards

Pat

[Pat OMalley]

It was like this in the NYC bouncer case (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=384) too--once they found he had studied the FMA he was labeled a "knife nut" and that was that.Yep! and that did not do the group he trained with any favours either and their image even in certain FMA communitys went down a peg or two through no fualt of there own but simply because of the stupidity of one individual.

Hence I and a few others are always concerned as to what skills you teach an individual and when.

Best regards

Pat

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Pat,

As I said I am not aquainted well enough with the facts to further comment.

My initial point was that genuine FMA Seminars have to be very careful with their wording and then pandora's box opened. :(

Ofcourse, I worry about the image of FMA and know all to well the experience of LEA's as my father was in the force for 20 years and have had friends on the force. In the current environment in the UK I can see how any bad publicity can affect all groups as a whole. I have probably lost site of this a bit training in parks, cemetery's and hotel roof-tops in the P.I so I apologize if I'm fanning the flames here :(

[Pat OMalley]

Pat,

As I said I am not aquainted well enough with the facts to further comment.

My initial point was that genuine FMA Seminars have to be very careful with their wording and then pandora's box opened. :(

Ofcourse, I worry about the image of FMA and know all to well the experience of LEA's as my father was in the force for 20 years and have had friends on the force. In the current environment in the UK I can see how any bad publicity can affect all groups as a whole. I have probably lost site of this a bit training in parks, cemetery's and hotel roof-tops in the P.I so I apologize if I'm fanning the flames here :(Oh no your not fanning the flames at all, if anything it shows people that there is a right way to promote things and a wrong way to promote things and also shows we have to be cautious of what we teach and to whom.

Maybe this kind of discussion can help the new up and comming FMA instructors realise just what a responsibility they are taking on.

Best regards

Pat

[aamybush]

Once again, waste of time.

Arnisador,

I do appreciate the info you provide here. Some of this we never hear of here inside the UK and some of it is total "bollocks" as the brits love to say.
But I must ask;
why is it that no one else has any say on this matter?
I am always up for a good debate or flat out arguement;-)

Just a question....

Mabuhay

Damien

Exactly !!! I do agree with arnisador (http://fmatalk.com/member.php?u=14) if you want to start a detail discussion why not start a full dedicate thread for knife arts. that would be batter and you would have nice discussion too.

[Ah Loong]

Hi everyone,

Comments and articles have been brought to my attention about ‘teaching open knife fighting seminars’. It seems everyone their own version of this story and I think I need to set the records straight once and for all since I am the person in question.

A few years back my teacher, GM Yuli, asked me to promote Bahad Zu’bu in my area and as the result I set up a seminar to do that. No! The seminar was not open to the public. If anyone cared to read the flyer properly they would have noticed that it clearly mentions “you have to be over 18, affiliated to an MA club and/or brown belt and above”. Granted, the title was rather catchy all be it true.

Now the real story is that there was a lot of local government politics going on at the time about who controls what community hall. One of councillors and his cronies used this idea of me teaching knife fighting to kids in their hall whilst using real weapons to muddy the waters. Actually, none of these were true. I was we were and still are teaching a different form of MA in that specific community hall and have the full backing of the public there. The seminar, and indeed none of the Zu’bu classes, was ever held there; we had booked a different venue for the event.

Furthermore, it was us who wrote to the local police inviting them to attend the seminar and to give us their approval. In fact, on the day we directly called the local police to ensure their presence. Needless to say the police expressed their utter satisfaction with the event. I need to also mention that at no time the police were actually able to stop the event. What we were doing was totally legal. That is why they ‘expressed concerns’ instigated by some ‘wannanbe politician’ with his own agenda. I believe after 30 years of MA experience and over decade of teaching I am experienced enough to know how to conduct an event.

I was contacted about this and I did make it clear since I am not a affiliated with any association I am not bound by their rules, that as the direct student of GM Yuli I have is blessing and that I am a responsible, law abiding citizen with young children of his own who knows better not to do what was alleged. Please forgive my annoyance to see this matter is discussed and wrapped out of recognition here. I hope the records can now be set straight.

Respect to all

Punong Guro Ah Loong
Bahad Zu’bu Mangtas Baraw (UK-London)



I think I know the seminar your talking about, a Cheif Inspector of the Metrapolitan Police contacted me about it asking my opinion on the guy, whom I personally did not know and the main concern was that there was an increase in knife crime in the area the seminar was located and they where concerned that this was an open to the public seminar covering knife fighting so you can understand their concerns. Via our network on the British Council of Kali Eskrima Arnis Instructors I managed to find out who the guy was and the council rep for this particular style contacted him telling him of the problems of promoting and teaching such an event to the public.

We always adivse that you do not teach 'knife fighting' to the general public but rather teach and promote knife defence and awareness and any knife fighting training should only be taught to your trusted students as you never know who you are teaching those skills to in a public seminar situation.

Once I seen the posters promoting the event I and many others on the BCKEAI including the Council representative for the system could see why the Police had major concerns and that his advertisement could be seen by them and the public as a danger but I think it was his lack of expeariance in promoting an event that was mainly at fault here and his over zealousness to promote his public image as an FMAer.

Hopefully our advise and the intervention of the Police and their concerns has helped him to re-evaluate what he teaches and to whom and where?

Best regards

Pat

[Pat OMalley]

Hi everyone,

Comments and articles have been brought to my attention about ‘teaching open knife fighting seminars’. It seems everyone their own version of this story and I think I need to set the records straight once and for all since I am the person in question.

A few years back my teacher, GM Yuli, asked me to promote Bahad Zu’bu in my area and as the result I set up a seminar to do that. No! The seminar was not open to the public. If anyone cared to read the flyer properly they would have noticed that it clearly mentions “you have to be over 18, affiliated to an MA club and/or brown belt and above”. Granted, the title was rather catchy all be it true.

Now the real story is that there was a lot of local government politics going on at the time about who controls what community hall. One of councillors and his cronies used this idea of me teaching knife fighting to kids in their hall whilst using real weapons to muddy the waters. Actually, none of these were true. I was we were and still are teaching a different form of MA in that specific community hall and have the full backing of the public there. The seminar, and indeed none of the Zu’bu classes, was ever held there; we had booked a different venue for the event.

Furthermore, it was us who wrote to the local police inviting them to attend the seminar and to give us their approval. In fact, on the day we directly called the local police to ensure their presence. Needless to say the police expressed their utter satisfaction with the event. I need to also mention that at no time the police were actually able to stop the event. What we were doing was totally legal. That is why they ‘expressed concerns’ instigated by some ‘wannanbe politician’ with his own agenda. I believe after 30 years of MA experience and over decade of teaching I am experienced enough to know how to conduct an event.

I was contacted about this and I did make it clear since I am not a affiliated with any association I am not bound by their rules, that as the direct student of GM Yuli I have is blessing and that I am a responsible, law abiding citizen with young children of his own who knows better not to do what was alleged. Please forgive my annoyance to see this matter is discussed and wrapped out of recognition here. I hope the records can now be set straight.

Respect to all

Punong Guro Ah Loong
Bahad Zu’bu Mangtas Baraw (UK-London)

I am confident that your intentions where very noble indeed, and yes it more than likely was blown all out of proportion via a Politicain trying to make a name for themselves, but like I said earlier the Politicians have to be seen to be doing something.

The fact that you contacted the Police in advance is also very noble but it's self would have brought the attention of the powers that be, who have to be seen to be doing some thing and by the very wording on yor advertisement you actually gave him the ammunition to fire at you.

You also have to remember that most people who are arrested for knife crime are between the ages of 18 and 25 years old and a lot of politicians for the best part veiw martial artists as mindless thugs who are learning deadly killing techniques, the Press does not help in this matter either when they run articles such as 'Killed by a martial arts expert', this only adds more fuel to the fire. So saying that the participants have to be over the age of 18 and be martial artists would only add fuel to his fire.

A similar incident happend to me a couple of years ago, a freind of mine booked me to do a seminar in his area, he made up the posters and put them around the general area, now the picture he used of me was a pose of me and my wife holding 2 daggers, now I am not the prettiest of looking people and the picture did look quite intimidating. Now I was not even teaching knife defence at this event, but more so concentrating on the traditional art. But it caught the attention of the power that be and concerns where raised.

I too was not doing anything ilegal and they could not stop the event, but my freind had to quickly adjust the posters to blank out the daggers to put the powers that be minds at ease.

When he told me about it I told him it was a stupid thing to do placing that particular picture in public venues and was not surprised by the concerns raised. Yes I did have a chuckle about it to, after all it was too late and it was out there.

After all a lot Politicians (especially those trying to make a name for themselves) see martial artists as mindless thugs and use oppertunities like this to be seen to be doing something.

To show you how out of whack it can get, I was hosting an MMA event in Yorkshire one year and this particular Politician who was making a name for himself in the Houses of Parliment went all out trying to ban the event, saying it was dangerous and mindless violence that was being promoted in a public show. Now I could have understood where he was comming from if he was someone who had never seen a full contact contest between two individuals but he was not, as a matter of fact he was an avid fan and major supporter of the local Boxing shows which to my mind are far more dangerous to the individual than MMA and we pointed this out to him in the very same news papers he was ranting in.

Now because this proffessional event was being held in a Night Club, we already had to interact with the Police, the Council and Fire Service.

He tried everything, he sent in the Firebrigade to check the venue was safe, it was more than safe as the Fire Cheif said, he sent in the Police to check security for the event was adequate and it was more than adequate as the inspector said, and he still ranted on in the newspapers, so much so that he had built up public concerns which forced the Council to stop the event going ahead, even though we had held 3 MMA events at the very same venue over previous years.

So you see, by interacting with the Police which is nobile and the right thing to do, they in turn have to make a report, which in turn goes up the ladder and will also be brought before a committee which will involve local Politicians, this very interaction and the wording on the posters is what gave the Politician the ammunition to come at you and with that they also contacted me, and I am sure they probably contacted a few others too some of whom may well have tried to re-enforce their veiws out of simple jealousy (such is martial arts politics). And you have to remember, what is said to you and what is said to others can be completely different, especially when you have a Politician on a mission to make a name for themselves.

It is not what you do that matters so much, but more what you say you are doing that can get you in to incidents like this.

For instance, if you are attacked in the street by a thug with a knife and during the struggle he is stabbed and killed, Now the Police will arrest you as a matter of course, if you say he attacked me with a knife so I kicked the crap out of him and he died, at the very least your are charged with Man Slaughter, now if you say, he attacked me with a knife and I was in fear of my life and I defended myself and once he stopped I stopped. That is Self Defence.

Now imagine a hypathetical situation here, One day you are attacked by a knife weilding thug and you defend yourself and he happend to die in the struggle through no fault of your own, imagine which peice of evidence will be produced by the Possecution? A poster proclaiming to teach knife fighting maybe? And maybe they will brand you as a 'Knife Fighting Expert'? How do you think a Judge and Jury who have been told by the press and the politicians that there is a serious knife crime problem out there, how do you think they would look on it even though your intentions are good?

Remember in front of a Judge and Jury they would see us as martial artists who use weapons to have complete control of our actions and have no fear in such situations and we should be able to use some mystical moves that render the attacker harmless without actually injuring him. It is a sad state of affairs but that is how we are looked upon, they think we are all Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan and Hong Kong Chop Sokey Fuey rolled into one.

Best regards

Pat

[Pat OMalley]

Now the real story is that there was a lot of local government politics going on at the time about who controls what community hall.And here lies another problem in the UK, if you are not a member of a Governing Body teaching a Governement recognised martial art, you can have problems renting out halls to teach from as many Government owned halls and leisure centres will only allow those Martial Arts that are recognised by Governing Bodies.

We have incidents of TKD guys being able to teach FMA in a Leisure Centre when the qualified FMA Instructor cant, This is one of the reasons that the BCKEAI was set up in the first place, and no the BCKEAI is not a Governeing Body either but is looked upon by some officials as being the nearest thing the FMA in the UK has to having one, hence there are times when they contact us for adivice on individuals whether they are withing the organisation or not.

Best regards

Pat

[Ah Loong]

Hi everyone,

Comments and articles have been brought to my attention about ‘teaching open knife fighting seminars’. It seems everyone their own version of this story and I think I need to set the records straight once and for all since I am the person in question.

A few years back my teacher, GM Yuli, asked me to promote Bahad Zu’bu in my area and as the result I set up a seminar to do that. No! The seminar was not open to the public. If anyone cared to read the flyer properly they would have noticed that it clearly mentions “you have to be over 18, affiliated to an MA club and/or brown belt and above”. Granted, the title was rather catchy all be it true.

Now the real story is that there was a lot of local government politics going on at the time about who controls what community hall. One of councillors and his cronies used this idea of me teaching knife fighting to kids in their hall whilst using real weapons to muddy the waters. Actually, none of these were true. I was we were and still are teaching a different form of MA in that specific community hall and have the full backing of the public there. The seminar, and indeed none of the Zu’bu classes, was ever held there; we had booked a different venue for the event.

Furthermore, it was us who wrote to the local police inviting them to attend the seminar and to give us their approval. In fact, on the day we directly called the local police to ensure their presence. Needless to say the police expressed their utter satisfaction with the event. I need to also mention that at no time the police were actually able to stop the event. What we were doing was totally legal. That is why they ‘expressed concerns’ instigated by some ‘wannanbe politician’ with his own agenda. I believe after 30 years of MA experience and over decade of teaching I am experienced enough to know how to conduct an event.

I was contacted about this and I did make it clear since I am not a affiliated with any association I am not bound by their rules, that as the direct student of GM Yuli I have is blessing and that I am a responsible, law abiding citizen with young children of his own who knows better not to do what was alleged. Please forgive my annoyance to see this matter is discussed and wrapped out of recognition here. I hope the records can now be set straight.

Respect to all

Punong Guro Ah Loong
Bahad Zu’bu Mangtas Baraw (UK-London)

[Ah Loong]

Hi,

I appreciate your sentiments but, without getting too much into it, I must say if we were to take your line of logic then we might as well not bother teaching Filipino combat. You can take all the precautions in the world but if someone, for whatever reason, wants to find faults I am sure they can.

The facts are that I was not doing anything illegal which makes the so called ‘police concerns’ erroneous. We had a discussion with one police officer who thought it might be useful to contact the local police in case there is interest from fellow officer for further self defence training. Why would I not contact the local police? I have no intention of ‘hiding’ in case someone gets the wrong end of the stick (pardon the pun). Frankly as long as I am within the legal frame work and have the approval of GM Yuli I am happy to carry on regardless of the pseudo-concerns. My point is perfectly proven when you consider that the police came, saw and left perfectly happy. I don’t see anything ‘wrong’ with the way we publicised and conducted the seminar. It may be note worthy to mention we have had a couple of similar events since then without any ‘police concerns.

Anyway, I just wanted to set the story right since what was being discussed was, for whatever reason, seemed to be giving the wrong impression.

Respect to all,

Punong Guro Ah Loong
Bahad Zu’bu Mangtas Baraw (London-UK)

[Pat OMalley]

Hi,

I appreciate your sentiments but, without getting too much into it, I must say if we were to take your line of logic then we might as well not bother teaching Filipino combat. You can take all the precautions in the world but if someone, for whatever reason, wants to find faults I am sure they can. (London-UK)As I said I am sure you intentions are honorable, but you also have to take the political climate into consideration as this does affect what you may well be allowed to do in the future. Look at the case of the Samurai sword restrictions that have now been put in place and all that after far less people having been attacked, injured and killed with them. I personally feel it was those few companies flooding the market with cheep imitations that brought this about in the first place, but what did not help was the fact that a Politician was also attacked with a Samurai sword and this drew their attention to it.

Look back on the incident of the person who killed his parents who had a few FMA DVD's on 'Knife Fighting' look at the media attention this got and the impressions that where given all be it wrong. That is the reality of it and is something we as instructors have to look seriously at.

As was mentioned in the Bill that was passed, the issue is not closed and the Government are still looking at many other areas. Now what if they decide that all knife arts are to be banned in the interest of public safety as they would put it, that would dictate what you where allowed to teach and what your where not allowed to teach. It is something they will be seriously looking at as knife crime far outways crime with Samurai swords.

And I also said earlier that it is not what you do that counts, it is what you say that counts in these things.

I am not hinding in the shadows from any of this and I do not live in fear of being attacked by a knife weilding thug, far from it and I do not feel I have to arm myself just in case, but I am realistic about how the Politician's are looking for scape goats to take the public gaze away from their inabbility to deal with real knife crime in the way it should be dealt with.

They have restricted the use of Samurai swords to those who are members of a handfull of Government recognised organisations and to serious collectors, because of the very nature of the FMA dont kid yourself into thinking they will leave us alone and let us just plod along (pardon the pun) doing what we do without accountability.

Unfortunelty it is the politicians who make and control the laws of the land and yes it can at times seem as though they are walking around with their heads up their backsides and have no real understanding of what we do and teach, but regardless of that we are in real terms in the minority and the public opinion is in the majority and if they feel they can sway public opinion by restricting certain things such as the use of Samurai Swords and possibly in the future knives, then we have to be in a possition to make sure they do not restrict what we are allowed to teach within our chosen art.

Remember they have already banned the Balisong knife a long time ago and it is totally ilegal even to own one here in the UK, that has affected what we can teach in the FMA here in the UK, we have to make sure we give them no reason to take anymore away from us than they already have.

Hence we have to be carefull what we say and how we promote what we do or who knows, the wrong ears could very well be listening and be in a possition TO BE SEEN TO BE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT, in the Public eye, just to make a name for themselves.

Best regards

Pat

[Pat OMalley]

The responsibilities of Martial Artists with regards to the law on knife crime can clearly be seen how it can affect you more than you realise.

We have a martial arts aquantance who also owned a martial arts shop. One day he was raided by the Police who where notified that he was selling a knife that was ilegal, It was a knife concealed in a lighter. He was arrested and taken to court.

He did not know that under UK law the knife was ilegal and his defence lawer pointed this out to the judge during the hearing. The judge replied that as a martial artist and a seller of martial arts products he should have made it his business to know the law and then sentanced him to a long term in prison. During his stay in one of Her Majesty's hotel resorts he lost his business and his relationship and since his release refuses to have anything to do with knives.

Because he was not only the owner of the shop but also a martial artist the judge clearly stateted to him that he was being made an example of to send out a message to everyone in similar possitions that the need to understand the law is paramount and is our duty,

The person in question did not know he was breaking the law and because of this quite innocently went about his business selling his products, one of which was deemed ilegal, even though he sold this item through ignorance he was still held accountable. We are by the very nature of what we do accountable in the eyes of the law whether we realise it or not.

This sort of action is being taken because of the frenzy within the media that is being stirred up in the UK regarding knife crime and unfortunetly some may still fall foul to this frenzy even if their intentions are good. Such is the nature of things in the UK at the moment.

Best regards

Pat

[arnisador]

Home Office flouted guidelines in 10 ways over knife crime statistics (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jan/06/statistics-knife-crime)

Any figures that fail to comply with code in future will be refused stamp of approval, says statistics body (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jan/06/statistics-knife-crime)



The early release of knife crime statistics by the Home Office last month flouted new official guidelines in 10 different ways, the UK statistics authority said today.
[...]
The home secretary, Jacqui Smith, offered a limited apology for the release last month. She told the Commons on December 15: "I am sorry that I think we were too quick off the mark with the publication of one number in relation to the progress that had been made with tackling knife crime."

[Pat OMalley]

Home Office flouted guidelines in 10 ways over knife crime statistics (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jan/06/statistics-knife-crime)

Any figures that fail to comply with code in future will be refused stamp of approval, says statistics body (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jan/06/statistics-knife-crime)

As I said before, the powers that be will try t be seen to be doing something as opposed to actually spending the funds to actually do something, hence we then see comments such as this.


The shadow home secretary, Dominic Grieve, said that ministers were relying on "dodgy" statistics instead of focusing on solving knife crime.
He said: "This government's reliance on spin and manipulation has completely eroded confidence in government statistics, which will only serve to undermine our fight against crime."

[Pat OMalley]

Boxer stabbed to death in front of his 3 year old daughter

News Report (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Croydon-Second-Arrest-As-Police-Continue-To-Question-Man-Over-Murder/Article/200902115214595)

[arnisador]

Lots of stories linked there about the 'knife epidemic' in the U.K., including the poster asking students to turn in otehr students who possess knives...they are obviously still very concerned out it out your way.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Pat thanks for the insight. http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Pat OMalley]

Lots of stories linked there about the 'knife epidemic' in the U.K., including the poster asking students to turn in otehr students who possess knives...they are obviously still very concerned out it out your way.
Well because the politicians and the press are building it up to such a frenzy kids now feel the need to arm themselves which in turn is leading to more and more incidents of knife crime amoungst the youth as they do not really have a real understanding of the dangers that a knife has and they are less likely to think before acting.

So in part the politicians and press must bear some of the brunt for the increase in people carrying knives and the politicians must carry even more of the responsibility for not dealing with those who commit knife crime properly, all too often people caught carrying weapons are simply given a warning because the law does not have the facilities to deal with them due to over population of the prisions and the do gooders are quick to let them off as they feel it is because they are from broken homes and all tha BS.

Deal with it properly and it will decrease. Go easy on them and they will do it again and again abd before you know it, it is too late for some one and their family.

Best regards

Pat

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

In a complete "knee-jerk" reaction ebay has banned all knives except cutlery from it's UK site. It was pressured into doing this by a consumer affair's TV programme.



eBay bans trade in knives in UK


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45460000/jpg/_45460777_knife.jpg

One of the knives purchased by Watchdog

EBay has said it intends to ban trade in all knives, apart from cutlery knives, on its UK and Ireland websites.

The ban will be implemented "as soon as possible" in order to provide a "safe" marketplace for its members, it said.
EBay said the ban was the best measure, bearing in mind the "complex" laws surrounding knife sales in the UK.
The move comes after BBC Watchdog researchers revealed they had been able to buy knives illegal in the UK through the public auction site.
All six knives purchased by Watchdog were sold by US sellers through eBay's site in the UK. One of the knives was intercepted by Customs officials.

New measures

"The security measures we already have in place are designed to make sure that only legal knives have been offered for sale by UK and Irish sellers on our UK and Ireland sites and we are satisfied with how these measures have been working in both the UK and Ireland," said Mark Lewis, country manager for eBay UK.

"However, the laws surrounding the sales of knives are extremely complex and so we have decided that the best way to protect our members and achieve the safety guarantees they have come to expect from us is to remove and ban all knives, with the exception of cutlery knives, from our UK and Ireland sites," he added.

A company spokeswoman confirmed eBay would attempt to implement the ban with urgency, but said that due to the marketplace nature of eBay and the need to give due notice to users, it would take some time.
The company already has measures in place to try to prevent the sale of illegal knives and the purchase of knives by under-18s.
These measures include filters, and buyers must insert a credit card number because Debit, Solo and Electron cards - which some under 18s have access to - are not accepted.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

It's interesting and depressing at the same time. I was reading aroudn as it affects my business (wooden training and blunt aluminum training knives are also banned - go figure). Some people were like:


..anybody who collect's knives is sick

and others (on a non-knife site) wrote:


..personally I think that any adult that collects action figures is sick

For me though, this poster encapsulates the effect of the knife ban on Ebay UK business at a time when all governments are trying to stimulate their local economy:


Whilst it is laudable to do one’s best to try to prevent knives falling into the wrong hands, ultimately it is impossible to stem. Policing eBay to prevent the sale of illegal knives is appropriate. The law on the legality – or not - of knives is considered clear.

For 18 months, we have sold Wilkinson Sword Survival Knives on eBay. These are pieces of British manufacturing history, commanding from £145 to £595 each, depending on model. This is how we live, pay our mortgage and our bills.

To make us – and others like us – a casualty of a cumbersome and unwieldy change of heart, is to deprive us of our living, selling legal, British survival tools, from a world-famous British company (now sadly closed).

It is an undisputed matter of record that a malcontent will simply buy a cheap knife (for, say £10) on the high street. They are not going to spend hundreds of pounds on eBay for a large, heavy survival knife, used to saw down young trees, split logs, and chop wood. Neither will they pay 3-figure sums for other eBay UK ‘favourites’, ie, the Ray Mears knives, which regularly exceed £400, and one of which fetched over £1500 on this site.

There is always a way to introduce a change without hurting us, the eBay community. Protecting us from illegal weapons from USA is commendable. Preventing us from selling legal – and there is no ‘grey area’ here – British survival knives is not.

[Pat OMalley]

Yes you have to love the logic of the great British reaction to crime??????

We now all have to lock ourselves in our homes just incase it snows and we all die of frost bite and someone might attack us with a snowplough:mecry:

[arnisador]

In a complete "knee-jerk" reaction ebay has banned all knives except cutlery from it's UK site. It was pressured into doing this by a consumer affair's TV programme.

Sheesh! Well, I'll say this--someone did a great job of making a small folding knife look like a huge, evil sword.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Yes you have to love the logic of the great British reaction to crime??????

We now all have to lock ourselves in our homes just incase it snows and we all die of frost bite and someone might attack us with a snowplough:mecry:

Yep, and they'll probably get 18 months jail with a TV and Play Station.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Sheesh! Well, I'll say this--someone did a great job of making a small folding knife look like a huge, evil sword.

Yes that is pretty amazing. I feel for you Pat as that must affect your business. You to EskrimaKaliArnis.

[Pat OMalley]

Yes that is pretty amazing. I feel for you Pat as that must affect your business. You to EskrimaKaliArnis.No not really we chose a few years ago only to sell blunt trainers as we could see the law on such things going all pear shaped. If anything they are doing me a favour as more and more people are interested in training against knife attack;)

[Pat OMalley]

Yep, and they'll probably get 18 months jail with a TV and Play Station.I did'nt realise our prisons where that rough now, must be the government cutbacks eh!;)

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

heh heh, depends what you do I suppose. If it's a nice bit of fraud you still get a PS3 I think!. Bash a granny and it's pong.

Seriously though I remember when all the Gary Glitter hurrah was going on a few months back and he was restricted travel due to being a sex offender. They published statistics to show that this law tended to be enforced several times more on football holigans (which I con't condone btw) than registered sex offenders. How they work the logic out for that one I don't know. Should take the passports away from both.

Thanks for the concern arnisador. I shifted all my training stuff onto ebay.com (american ebay) several months ago as ebay made it mandatory for customers to give ebay credit card details for training blades (blunt aluminium / wood) and the GB Pound is in the toilet. In theory the credit check is o.k but even I don't trust ebay with those details. Their track record (particulary paypal which I thought you had to be over 18 to use anyway...) is less-than-stellar with un-authorised payments.

You'd thought though that providing proof you were over 18 and your items were legal would be enough for ebay but oh no..

Pat - suggest you take a look at this announcement ASAP. Like you I only sell training blades but EVERYTHING pertaining to a knife not cuttlery (like wood knives for example) is not allowed on ebay.


February 2009 http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif***Change to policy regarding sale of knives on eBay.co.uk and eBay.ie*** http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/spacer.gif
09 February, 2009 | 08:00PM GMT
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif
We wanted to inform you of a change to our policies regarding the sale of knives.All knives except cutlery will be banned from sale on eBay.co.uk and eBay.ie.

This will impact UK, Irish and international sellers who currently list knives for sale to buyers on the eBay.co.uk and eBay.ie sites.

Over the last year we have made several changes to our policies regarding sales of knives and also Samurai swords to ensure that only legal knives are available on the UK and Irish sites. However, the criteria for what constitutes a legal knife are increasingly complex, and this step is necessary to help further protect our members and provide them with the highest safety standards.

We will be updating this AB post shortly to ensure that any sellers of knives have full notice, details and timings for the changes.
Thank you for your support in continuing to make eBay such a vibrant and trusted marketplace.

Regards,
The eBay Team

From:

http://www2.ebay.com/aw/uk/200902.shtml#2009-02-09183038

Nice work ebay. They even announced it on TV before telling the people whose livlihoods that are affected through the site.:grrr:

[Eskrimador Supplies]

The couriers in the UK actually implemented this rule many years ago (Not sure exactly when, but I do remember the conversations I had about 3 years ago). They will not allow us to send anything out of the UK that resembles a knife and yes that includes wooden daggers. Haha!

I was sending something to Brazil and it just had a blunt sword and dagger in the parcel, it was scanned and returned with a refusal to carry it. Of course I phoned them up and they advised I am not allowed to send knives of any sort. I obviously questioned this further to see what other problems I might have in the future, they advised it was a new policy that all the courier companies had agreed to implement. I asked about wooden daggers and they said "If it resembles a knife in any way regardless of material or dull edge, it would not be carried".

I proceeded to phone some other couriers who all said it would be scanned and returned too, due to this new rule.

I asked if they would send kitchen knives and they said......YES!

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

How rediculous.

However they have now tightened this a bit more and state that it has to be a set of kitchen knives with a purchase receipt.

Another funny thing was when I asked why I cannot send blunt or wooden knives, they said because......they do not know who's hands they will end up in.....and apparently they may sharpen them at the other end and use them to hurt someone, hahaha! Another rediculous answer. They now assume everyone wanting a knife requires it for illegal intentions, talk about presumptious.

This must mean I am a serial killer! Hehe! Or perhaps an arms dealer......cool!

I replied with, "well hopefully they end up at the address on the label".

I also mentioned that it would be alot of trouble to go to, buying one of my swords, sharpening it which would be really hard and a shoddy end result, when they are readily available to buy sharp all over the world.

So I have been having to get round these rules for a few years now anyway, so ebay is really no surprise.

Think about this.....should they not start with the children to create a new generation of passive beings if they really want to change society as they are still allowing them to be desensortised. But they still have toy guns and knives and swords in toy shops, so really....they are not taking this clean up as seriously as they make out. You can do alot of damage with a plastic sword.....they could have someones eye out!

I think I will just call myself a toy shop instead of a martial arts shop...... Then they will leave me alone, hahaha!

[Eskrimador Supplies]

OK I have just looked it up......the first time I experienced problems with the couriers was October 2005 and that was when they told me it was a new recent rule change in their terms of service.

Best regards

Lucy

[arnisador]

First 'anti-stab' knife to go on sale in Britain (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6501720.ece)


The first “anti-stab” knife is to go on sale in Britain, designed to work as normal in the kitchen but to be ineffective as a weapon.

The knife has a rounded edge instead of a point and will snag on clothing and skin to make it more difficult to stab someone.

It was invented by industrial designer John Cornock, who was inspired by a documentary in which doctors advocated banning traditional knives.

Mr Cornock, 42, from Swindon, said that the knife will cut vegetables, but will make it almost impossible to stab someone to death and will reduce the risk of accidental injuries.

He said: “It can never be a totally safe knife, but the idea is you can’t inflict a fatal wound. Nobody could just grab one out of the kitchen drawer and kill someone.”

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

Commented on this this on another thread...


They'll be doing "Knife and fork" amnesties in the UK soon where you take your dinner service to the local police station and they replace them with a nice, "non-lethal" plastic set for you..

And how much will these "safe" knives cost - 30 pesos? Because if they are priced more than "lethal" knives they won't be replacing them any time soon.

Time would be better spent on a program of re-education (such as advertising campaigns showing the dangers / effects to society and the criminal) and tougher penalties.


Nobody could just grab one out of the kitchen drawer and kill someone Wanna bet?

[arnisador]

Wanna bet?

Heh. Nope.

But the average enraged person grabbing one of those and doing the Anthony Perkins "Psycho" swing should be causing less damage than he or she would have with a regular knife. You can be slashed forty times and survive, but you're not likely to survive forty stabs...

Mind you, I find the whole thing silly--making a tool less useful for its intended use on on purpose, because there exists the possibility of using it in a crime. But from a purely engineering viewpoint it isn't a bad way to address what they perceive as the problem.

[arnisador]

Knife arrests means London's police cells are full to bursting (http://timesonline.typepad.com/crime/2009/06/knife-arrests-means-its-all-full-at-the-inn.html)


Police were cock-a-hoop today at the successful outcome of an operation to arrest 200 people thought to be involved in gangs and serious youth crime.

Cock-a-hoop?

[Shaun]

Cock - a- hoop = happy,over the moon.

[Pat OMalley]

First 'anti-stab' knife to go on sale in Britain (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6501720.ece)
I rekon I could stab someone with it, put enough force and intent behind it and you can stab someone with a soup spoon. Good bit of marketing though. And slash the right spot and your dead anyway. If it can cut meat to the bone, your meat.

[Pat OMalley]

Cock - a- hoop = happy,over the moon.chuffed as little mint balls, sorted, well happy. Mint mate.

[Shaun]

I rekon I could stab someone with it, put enough force and intent behind it and you can stab someone with a soup spoon. Good bit of marketing though. And slash the right spot and your dead anyway. If it can cut meat to the bone, your meat.

LOL,Well put mate.

[Damien Alexander]

" the knife will cut vegetables, but will make it almost impossible to stab someone to death and will reduce the risk of accidental injuries. "


Funny. I had no idea that people were actually,ACCIDENTALLY, stabbing themselves.
The only thing dumber than this knife is the people who will buy them believing the hype.

People refuse to acknowledge the fact that knife crime has NOT actually increased in well over 10 years. It's the age of the perpetrators that has changed. Not the use of knives or crimes in general, just the age of the useres has lowered.

As for this "rounded tip" garbage they are now spewing; I can testify to the fact that I am STILL carrying a mark on my stomach from a "rounded TRAINING knife" that I recieved from may of last year.
I still managed to deflect the knife, but, I took a slight "indent", just the same. That particular knife is sold as a metal training knife. Nothing more.
BUT, you CAN apply enough force to penetrate flesh.

Besides, certain people can penetrate the rib cage with a non-broken (or altered) credit card.
and that has rounded edges ;-)

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

More crazyness from the land of my birth:


TV presenter Myleene Klass has said she has "no regrets" after being warned by police for waving a knife at youths who entered her back garden.

The former pop star was in the kitchen when she spotted the teenagers and grabbed a knife and banged the windows in an effort to get them to leave.
She says Hertfordshire Police officers told her that brandishing an "offensive weapon" was illegal.

But a police spokeswoman said that "at no point" were any warnings given.
The 31-year-old was at her Potters Bar home on Friday with her daughter upstairs when she spotted the youths peering into the house.

Klass said: "It was a scary incident but I've got no regrets as to how I reacted. I think I did what any other mother would do.

"This is my house and that's my daughter up there and I will do anything to protect my daughter and my family. That's what I did."

The star was speaking at the launch of new ITV1 series Popstar To Operastar - which features former chart stars as they try to make it as classical singers.
'Utmost respect'

Klass's spokesman, Jonathan Shalit, told the Sunday Telegraph the singer had been "utterly terrified" and was stepping up security at her home.
"Myleene was aghast when she was told that the law did not allow her to defend herself at home," he said.

"All she did was scream loudly and wave the knife to try and frighten them off.
"She is not looking to be a vigilante, and has the utmost respect for the law, but when the police explained to her that even if you're at home alone and you have an intruder, you are not allowed to protect yourself, she was bemused."

But a statement from Hertfordshire police said: "Officers spoke to reassure the home owner, talked through security and gave advice in relation to the importance of reporting suspicious activity immediately to allow officers to act appropriately."

It added: "For clarification, at no point were any official warnings or words of advice given to the home owner in relation to the use of a knife or offensive weapon in their home."

Mr Shalit could not immediately be reached for further comment.
Klass's fiance Graham Quinn was away on business at the time of the scare, but the couple's daughter was upstairs at the time the intruders were spotted.

Apparently the police back-tracked a bit as she was initially chastised.

As somebody wrote on another forum:


Remember, if it happens to you, call the police immediatly and then wait 8 hours for them to turn up, if at all. If you happen to be killed during this time, remember you will not be charged with an offence if you do not defend yourself.

[arnisador]

Waste watchers? UK group fears trash bin spies (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5juoJBjVUBrXxcFLDd51stg1PY7FAD9E8LAAG0)


The government in January banned some drinking games and bar promotions in an effort to curb binge drinking, and a government-funded design effort is under way to produce a shatterproof pint glass so drunken "lager louts" will be less able to break glasses and use the shards as weapons.

[eskrimakaliarnis.com]

So by "Government Funded" they really mean "The tax payers". Another fine example of why the UK is in a mess.

I could solve that problem easy. Use plastic glasses (or a similar design that doesn't get beer all over you when you squeeze it) like they use at concerts.