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View Full Version : NYC Knife Self-Defense Case (Jan. 2008).



arnisador
02-23-2008, 11:42 PM
I made a brief post about this here (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?p=21073#post21073) after seeing it on MT. Tonight I read the actual story (yes, I had bought that day's NY Times and set it aside in my newspaper pile because work was such a crunch at the time):

Robbery of Transit Worker Turns Into Knife Fight, Killing One (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/nyregion/12stab.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=leandro+ventura&st=nyt&oref=slogin)



A New York City Transit (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/new_york_city_transit/index.html?inline=nyt-org) worker walking home after a late shift, three suspected muggers armed with a curved knife and a bystander whose role was unclear converged on a rainy street in Upper Manhattan late Thursday in a blood-soaked encounter that left the bystander stabbed to death and two others — including the transit worker — hospitalized.


Hours after the midnight attack at 139th Street and St. Nicholas Avenue, detectives were still trying to reconstruct what had happened.


As of late Friday, investigators said, one thing was clear: It appeared that the transit worker, Maurice Parks, 39, a subway motorman, was a victim who decided to fight back. He told investigators he was attacked in 1994, and fought back that time, too.
[...]
One of the muggers pulled a knife, and Mr. Parks pulled one too, the police said.


The conductor apparently carried the knife — a straight blade held in a sheath — for just this reason, so he could defend himself, one law enforcement official said. Who stabbed whom first remained unclear Friday, though Mr. Parks told investigators that he was wounded first. Mr. Parks, who lives in that neighborhood, was stabbed in the abdomen and slashed in the hands; Mr. Byas was stabbed in the chest, back and leg; and one other man involved, Hector Cruz, 21, was stabbed twice in the abdomen, the police said.
[...]
Two knives were recovered as evidence — the folding knife with a curved blade and the knife that Mr. Parks was believed to have pulled from his pocket. Detectives were seeking a third assailant and were checking video cameras of nearby stores.
[...]

Officials said it was not likely that he would be charged criminally.
In New York, it is legal for someone to carry a knife as long as it is not among those types defined by state law as illegal, like a switchblade.
I'm wondering if the "folding knife with a curved blade" was a folding kerambit?

His first serious self-defense altercation:
Killing in Harlem Confrontation Was the Second for a Transit Worker (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E07E5DC1731F930A25752C0A96E9C8B 63&scp=3&sq=leandro+ventura&st=nyt)



On Thursday, Mr. Parks, who had studied martial arts for self-defense, and one of his attackers ended up with stab wounds. And Flonarza M. Byas, 28, who was stabbed several times by Mr. Parks, died. Mr. Parks has not been charged with a crime.


He became a transit worker in 1997, three years after the Queens attack. A police official could not provide the details of that encounter, but said that Mr. Parks was initially arrested and charged with homicide. Those charges were dropped after it was determined that the killing was an act of self-defense, the police said.
Another story makes it sound as if the attacker in that case was not in fact killed (ah yes, correction here (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E01EFD81539F936A25752C0A96E9C8B 63&scp=5&sq=%22Maurice+Parks%22&st=nyt)):
Transit Worker Fought Back Before, Wounding a Man (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/nyregion/15melee.html?scp=4&sq=leandro+ventura&st=nyt)



The city transit worker at the center of last week’s bloody melee on a Harlem street fought off a gunman who tried to rob him in Queens 14 years ago, a struggle that left the attacker shot and wounded, officials said on Monday.
[...]
In the 1994 case, Mr. Parks was charged with attempted murder, officials said, and the man he shot, Marcus Meyers, was charged with attempted robbery.
The cases against Mr. Parks and Mr. Meyers were presented before grand juries in Queens but each was dismissed, officials said. The cases were sealed, so many of the details of what occurred — such as whether Mr. Parks disarmed Mr. Meyers and shot him, or whether the gun went off during the struggle — remained unclear on Monday.
[...]
Mr. Parks is a black belt in a branch of jujitsu known as VSK jujitsu, according to David Herbert, 50, who uses the jujitsu title of Shihan and said he had trained as a classmate of Mr. Parks for six years.


Shihan Herbert said Mr. Parks had trained under Soke Davis, an instructor, who is also known as “Lil John.” Shihan Herbert said that Mr. Parks had been expected to show up on Saturday at a seminar given by Mr. Davis at the World Martial Arts Center in Brooklyn.

The martial art style's home page is here (http://www.vskjiujitsu.com/). It derives from the styles of Florendo Visitation and Moses Powell.

An essay inspired by the incident that discusses the ways in which NYC residents prepare for self-defense:
When Crime Was Always on Our Minds (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/nyregion/14defense.html?scp=2&sq=leandro+ventura&st=nyt)

JBrainard
02-25-2008, 11:29 AM
This may be a tad off topic, but this blurb jumped out at me from the first article:



“I know he had nothing to do with it,” said George Ventura, who said his brother was a student at Washington Irving High School. “I know his friends, I’ve never seen my brother hanging with older dudes in my life.” He added: “He’s a good kid, he’s not a troubled dude, he always listens.”
Separately, the teenager’s lawyer, Ismael Gonzalez, said, “He’s going to plead not guilty to the charges.”
Relatives of Mr. Cruz also came to visit him at the hospital. “He’s a good kid,” said his sister, who declined to give her name. “He was hanging out with the wrong people.”

I am so sick of hearing this line of defense. Just because you hang out with criminals does not mean that you have to participate in criminal acts.

When my wife was a teenager and was suffering from severe depression, she hung out with the skinheads who lived down the street from her (something she's not proud of, BTW) because they were the only people who would take her in as a friend. She did not, however, involve herself in the more seedy activities that her friends participated in.
Wow! She hung out with the the wrong people and didn't involve herself in criminal activity! Imagine that.

pguinto
02-25-2008, 02:21 PM
wrong place, wrong time

i once got arrested downtown. i was rollerblading and saw a group of kids jumping on handrails (at a cta train stop) with their skates and sliding down. i knew a couple of them from the lakefront and stopped to watch. A narc sees the kids and decides to arrest everyone wearing skates including me. Keep in mind that these kids (7, mostly white and well to do rich kids) were around 16-22 years old, while i was a definite "outsider" being asian, 30-something, and a fat fart. This sucked cuz the putz that arrested me made me and the kids kneel on the sidewalk while he handcuffed us in pairs; i dont even know if that was legal. He called a paddy wagon and they piled us in. Well the jerk driving the wagon decides to play stop n go all the way to the police station, bouncing us all around. My legal fees exceeded $500 to plead not guilty. On top of that, the judge looks me dead in the eye, and says, "you're lucky you have a lawyer because the assistant DA is choosing to drop the charges." He then points at me and bellows, "i know that you are guilty, you did something wrong or else you wouldnt be here. idiots like you are ruining society with your rebellious behavior and i should... blah, blah, blah."

I was quite enraged because for a long time i had no idea what the judge was claiming that i did wrong. It must be that i was in the Wrong place at the wrong time. Simply i was wrong to have had bad timing...

pguinto
02-25-2008, 03:48 PM
Speaking of injustices: Did anyone follow this headline?

sv3Brplsou0

Drowning Suspects Turn Themselves In - Suspects Head To Police Headquarters After Talking Exclusively To CBS 2
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/hate.crime.asians.2.339663.html

Police: Fisherman's Drowning Death No Accident
http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/drowning.pushed.into.2.339613.html

The man who drowned, Du Doan, was the father of one of my very good friends. Haley's trial was held this morning. For 1st degree murder, he received house arrest, which basically means he is free to do whatever he wants and go about his daily business as if nothing happened, so long as he doesnt go outside his designated zone. I guess he has one of those ankle bracelet thingys. Point is: he drowned an old man, and lady justice says go to your room.

One of my friends who went to the trial claims that Haley not only looked straight upon Doan's widow, but also did so with zero remorse...

madmicah
02-27-2008, 08:52 PM
yeah - i guess it is one thing to be young and dumb, make mistakes, be in the wrong place at the wrong time and hang out with the "wrong crowd" -- i know i have done all those things. i also was smart (lucky?) enough to walk away when things started to get ugly....

Imua Kuntao
05-08-2008, 08:18 AM
Yes , I know the law says guilty by association, that is why convicted felons are not allowed to socialize with each other, when they do they become a criminal organization.

arnisador
08-30-2008, 11:39 PM
Attack Victim Charged in Death of a Bystander (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/nyregion/30murder.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22Parks%20was%20stabbed%22&st=cse&oref=slogin)



A city transit worker who was initially deemed to have been acting in self-defense when he fatally stabbed a man this year — a man who was apparently trying to help him fend off an attack — has been indicted on a murder charge, the police said on Friday.
[...]
After Mr. Parks, a black belt in a type of jujitsu known as VSK jujitsu, freed himself from his attackers, he pulled out a knife and “brings the fight to them,” Mr. Browne said. Mr. Parks was hospitalized with stab wounds to the hands and abdomen.

He apparently stabbed Mr. Byas while Mr. Byas was trying to flee

arnisador
09-04-2008, 11:33 PM
Attack Victim’s Role in Killing Is Challenged (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/nyregion/04stab.html?ref=nyregion)



A subway motorman who was mugged in January chased a bystander down a Harlem block and stabbed him 15 times, then misled the police by saying he acted in self-defense, prosecutors said on Wednesday.

The account recasts what was initially portrayed as the tragic accidental killing of Flonarza Byas, 28.