Silat/Willem de Thouars.

[arnisador]

Seen on MT:
http://www.willemdethouars.com/teachers.html

Big things brewing in the politics of his lineage.


I wish to clarify, the individuals concerned that have thoroughly trained in my system. There are many, all over the world, who have learned tricks and principles from me, but, there are only a dozen or so who have studied with me long enough to mature in my art and to understand its magnitude.

These individuals, in my opinion deserve my greatest thanks and respect for their devotion and intent to a lifetime practice.

The greatest historians concerning the de Thouars brothers, naming Victor, Paul, Maurice and Willem de Thouars - are by far Chas Clements and Steve Gartin. Chas is an absolute replica, when practicing any of the djurus taught to him by Paul, Maurice, Victor or including myself. He looks just like any of us brothers. Sometimes I can hardly believe it, but Chas also remembers what each of us brothers have said about various things.


Steve on the other hand is one of my best fighters and very best of knife handlers in my system of KunTao Silat de Thouars. I taught him the most when it comes to bladed arts within my system.

[Carol]

:lurk::lurk:

[wes tasker]

http://www.kurtisgoodwin.com/de_thouars_kun_tao_silat%201.htm

I just thought I'd add this for both arnisador and Carol's viewing pleasure. Easy enough to post about a group's politics when it doesn't concern you... I just thought you both would have better things to do than post old news (Bapak Willem does not own the website that quote is taken from...) about a groups politics along with cute popcorn smilies as commentary......

-wes tasker

[Captain Tom]

So forgive an old codger and tell me, what does this all mean?

I've been hearing the name DeThouars a lot but I don't really know what that woud mean for the new guy that wants to learn.

[silat1]

It's an early start on spring cleaning.. The Dethouars brothers have a tendency to clean house once or twice every couple of years to get rid of the dead wood and hangers on to stream line their groups..

[tellner]

It's an early start on spring cleaning.. The Dethouars brothers have a tendency to clean house once or twice every couple of years to get rid of the dead wood and hangers on to stream line their groups..

I'm afraid that is an overly generous interpretation. They have a habit of rewriting history on a regular basis, dropping long-time students down Big Brother's Memory Hole. "Him? Oh, he never existed." "He never studied with me." "He just did a little, but never really learned anything." I notice a few names of former fair-haired boys who are strangely absent. Years of training and affiliation have disappeared as if they had never been.

You can't take anything away from the de Thouars family's martial arts, their skill or the good students they've turned out. But that doesn't mean you have to take their who's in/who's out lists or the ever-changing view of history seriously.

[tellner]

So forgive an old codger and tell me, what does this all mean?

I've been hearing the name DeThouars a lot but I don't really know what that woud mean for the new guy that wants to learn.

The de Thouars' are a family of Dutch Indonesians. Like the rest of the Dutch Indos they were expelled when Indonesia achieved independence. The oldest brother, Maurice, lives in the Netherlands. Paul, Willem and Victor are in the United States. The de Thouars have superlative martial arts skills and were among the first to bring Silat and Kun Tao to North America. They are best known for the Sera style of Pencak Silat. Willem went in a different direction and studied a number of Silat and Kun Tao systems.

They've taught some amazing students and had a profound influence on the development of the Southeast Asian martial arts on this continent.

Unfortunately, there has also been a tendency to part ways with some of those students on less than friendly terms and later deny that they ever existed or had any of the skills that their erstwhile teachers had praised in earlier years. One friend of mine was crudely airbrushed out of group photographs.

It doesn't detract from the family's skills, its historical importance, the value of what they have to teach or the quality of instruction. But it creates a political minefield.

[silat1]

I'm afraid that is an overly generous interpretation. They have a habit of rewriting history on a regular basis, dropping long-time students down Big Brother's Memory Hole. "Him? Oh, he never existed." "He never studied with me." "He just did a little, but never really learned anything." I notice a few names of former fair-haired boys who are strangely absent. Years of training and affiliation have disappeared as if they had never been.

You can't take anything away from the de Thouars family's martial arts, their skill or the good students they've turned out. But that doesn't mean you have to take their who's in/who's out lists or the ever-changing view of history seriously.

Todd,
I know what you mean.. I have a friend in Vegas who has survived several of the fire sales that went down over the years from Pak Vic's group.. It is a never ending story and from the last I heard, he put the guys from colorado out of the system due to differences of opinion. I have heard the same about Pendekar Paul and some of his older Bukti Negara group..

It seems to be a general way of pruning the lineage tree as it has also happened with some of the Filipino Kuntaw instructors who I know.. I was one of the first to get the boot due to "family disagreements"

Nothing that worries me, Life is too short to worry about the tending the fireworks..

[PG Michael B]

Revisionist history is a bitch, huh? In the MA world it runs rampant....ahh the episodes I could unfurl like a ships sail chalked full of holes!

[arnisador]

Easy enough to post about a group's politics when it doesn't concern you... I just thought you both would have better things to do than post old news

I had just seen it on MT and had the impression it was new news, based on reactions there. It seemed relevant given the number of people with cross-training in both silat and FMA.

I have had enough of politics from Modern Arnis to last me a lifetime.

[wes tasker]

I have had enough of politics from Modern Arnis to last me a lifetime.

With that being said - why contribute to another group's by posting? How are the politics, that everyone says they are sick of, relevant? Trust me, as Mr. Ellner has posted about - the worlds of the brothers de Thouars needs no help in this area...

-wes tasker

[arnisador]

It seemed like relevant news. But, I'm not especially familiar with the de Thouars' group. I just recognized names such as Mr. Gartin's that have appeared here in the past and thought people would want to know. I'm not throwing stones because indeed I live in a glass house.

[tellner]

It's an old sad story that does little for the practitioners, the arts or martial arts' reputation in general. We've got better things to do than re-fight battles that started decades ago half way around the world.