Personal Self-defense Tasers.

[arnisador]

Seen on MT:
http://www.taser.com/products/consumers/pages/c2.aspx $300 personal taser
http://www.taser.com/products/consumers/Pages/TASERX26C.aspx

This could be great in the right hands, but I worry about seeing them fall into the wrong hands.

[tellner]

As compared to guns and knives?

[arnisador]

Heh, I worry about them falling into the wrong hands too! These have range, unlike knives (which aren't usually thrown), and are unlicensed, unlike guns (not that that keeps them out of criminals' hands but at least it ups the penalties against them when they're used and the person is caught). These are apparently not "deadly weapons" (at least, not firearms (http://www.taser.com/research/statistics/Documents/ATF%20non%20firearm%2098%20ltr.pdf)) and not registered by the govt.

More to the point, honestly, is that I see a spurt of muggers etc. trying these out when they start to become widely available. Instead of a threatened but ultimately unused knife or gun--unused partially because of the fear of a long sentence for homicide/assault with a deadly weapon--will we see a Tase First, Steal Second approach used?

[Carol]

In most states, you risk "assault with a deadly weapon" charges if you kick someone with shoes on your feet, or stab them with a pencil, or hit them with your car keys. There does not have to be an application (or attempted application) of lethal force present in order for a perpetrator to incur assault with a deadly weapon charges.

[arnisador]

Shoes being deadly is an old story, but imagine trying an "assault with a deadly weapon" case with a device explicitly marketed (and publicly perceived) as non-lethal! I'm not so sure how it'd go. People know a pencil can be used to stab someone but may believe that science has made the Taser as safe as a sedative. I don't know!

[Carol]

Shoes being deadly is an old story, but imagine trying an "assault with a deadly weapon" case with a device explicitly marketed (and publicly perceived) as non-lethal! I'm not so sure how it'd go. People know a pencil can be used to stab someone but may believe that science has made the Taser as safe as a sedative. I don't know!

That's why there is a legal difference between "assault with a deadly weapon" and using lethal force. A taser is not lethal force, but it does not excuse someone from not being charged with a deadly weapon.

A shod foot isn't just a story, it's the law in many states.


From the Wilimington, MA police department (http://www.wickedlocal.com/wilmington/archive/x26441309)

Jonathan Ryan, 19, of 147 Ipswich St., N. Billerica, was charged with assault with a deadly weapon, a shod foot, being drunk and disorderly, assault and battery on a police officer and resisting arrest.

From Framingham, MA (http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/homepage/x1930596103)

The women were charged with assault with a deadly weapon, a shod foot.


In fairness though, I looked up the statute and the the black letter law describes the statute as "assault with a dangerous weapon" and not "assault with a deadly weapon" (although many police deparments and newspapers still use the latter.)


From Provincetown, MA (http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/CWN/2007/05/)

They are identified as 31-year old Anthony Edwards and 28-year old Olivier Achtermann. They were both due to be arraigned Friday in Orleans District Court on charges of assault and battery with a dangerous weapon (shod foot).

Other states too...

From Orangeburg County, South Carolina (http://thetandd.com/articles/2007/01/13/news/doc45a861e5d3b2f661196903.txt)

Davis read no fewer than ten charges from the bench, including two counts of carrying a pistol without a license, possession of an unregistered firearm and ammunition, receiving stolen property, assault with a deadly weapon, possession of a controlled substance – cocaine, simple assault, rape, assault with a deadly weapon – shod foot, and lewd and obscene act.


From the District of Columbia (http://www.crimeindc.org/details/crime/Assault/hour/03:00_PM)

Date: Sun, Mar 6th, 2005 (http://www.crimeindc.org/stats/date/2005-03-06)
Time: 3:00 pm
Where: 700 Jefferson St NW (http://www.crimeindc.org/details/street/700_Jefferson_St_NW), 20011 (http://www.crimeindc.org/stats/zip/20011) | RSS (http://www.crimeindc.org/rss/street/700_Jefferson_St_NW) | Map (http://www.crimeindc.org/map/crime_id/2875882)
What: Assault (http://www.crimeindc.org/stats/crime/Assault) (Other) | RSS (http://www.crimeindc.org/rss/crime/Assault)
Temp: 55.0 °F Humid: 34%
Weather: Scattered Clouds
Report: (adw shod foot) c1 reports he passed s1 through s3. s1 said something in spanish to s2, then he said it in english. s2 walked up to c1 and without warning punched c1 in the face...



Now if someone were to "Tase and Take" as you were describing, in Massachusetts they would be facing a lot worse charges than assault with a deadly weapon - they would risk charges of armed robbery, which is a much more severe offense.

[arnisador]

A shod foot isn't just a story, it's the law in many states.

Oh yes, I din't mean "just a story''--I was thinking of savate and laws about the wooden shoes and the closed fists being deadly weapons, which is why classical savate (chausson) used slaps instead.



Now if someone were to "Tase and Take" as you were describing, in Massachusetts they would be facing a lot worse charges than assault with a deadly weapon - they would risk charges of armed robbery, which is a much more severe offense.Ah, that's true...I didn't think about that! That's encouraging, because I do think the punishment needs to be quite severe. One could easily be tased unconscious and be badly hurt by their subsequent fall.

[Carol]

Oh yes, I din't mean "just a story''--I was thinking of savate and laws about the wooden shoes and the closed fists being deadly weapons, which is why classical savate (chausson) used slaps instead.

I didn't know that about Savate! That is interesting.



Ah, that's true...I didn't think about that! That's encouraging, because I do think the punishment needs to be quite severe. One could easily be tased unconscious and be badly hurt by their subsequent fall.

There are some other aspects to the Taser that are unique.

Taser requires a background check on its customers. If their pro gear is being purchased for LE or military use, a special clearance has to occur first.

The units they ship are all shipped deactivated due to an encoding chip, until Taser has proof that the rightful owner has received it. When Taser has that proof, the owner is given the codes to activate the unit.

Each time a taser is discharged, it expels a large number of "microdots" (they sound like RFIDs) that contain the units serial number. This allows LEOs to tell exactly where the scene occurred, which taser was used, and who the owner was all in a short amount of time.

I thought that was very interesting :)

[arnisador]

Yes, that's good news! Of course, seeing how gun registration works, I am still not without concern.

[Carol]

Concern isn't necessarily a bad thing. If more people were concerned about the world around them, we'd live in a different world :)

[tellner]

Let's put it this way. I don't want bad people to have these. But bad people already have access to much more lethal weapons that can fire multiple times and don't cost sixty bucks a shot. This is a non-issue.

[arnisador]

Hmmmmmm...I see your point. Still, it'll take some time to see just how this fits into the ecology. But it is true that for all the possibilities now out there, the gun and the knife and the club appear to remain perennial favorites, and very few crimes occur at the "point" of a nunchaku.

[arnisador]

Taser parties? No kidding (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-010408-taser,0,656561.story)



Before she lets them shoot her little pink stun gun, Dana Shafman ushers her new friends to the living room sofa for a serious chat about the fears she believes they all share.

"The worst nightmare for me is, while I'm sleeping, someone coming in my home," Shafman says, drawing a few solemn nods from the gathered women. Shafman, 34, of Phoenix, says she knows how they feel. She says she used to stash knives under her pillow for protection.

Welcome, she says, to the Taser party.

[arnisador]

I'm surprised how many of my colleagues at work have heard of this and commented on it!

[scubamatt]

The "microdots" that are scattered when you fire the taser are extremely similar to the microscopic colored chips in all modern explosives. Those are color coded and/or numbered to identify manufacturer and lot/batch. The idea is that after it has been used you can identify exactly where it came from and where it was used.

Stun guns are easier to come by than tasers, and more often used by bad guys than a taser. They are also a good deal quieter, if used with proper technique. At one time, my Army unit trained in the use of stun guns (and batons) to remove sentries/guard animals. They were marginally more useful in certain situations where a silenced pistol shot/submunition was too risky.

Taser parties...no different from those Home Interior/Tupperware/Pampered Chef/etc parties. You spend a lot of money for things you will probably never use. Personally, I'd rather have a pistol by the bed than a Taser. Even if I miss, the pistol has blast/concussive effects that help me out. And a thick leather jacket won't stop my Glasers.

Of course, a 20 gauge pump shotgun (youth model) is an even better choice...:shotgun:

[Carol]

The "microdots" that are scattered when you fire the taser are extremely similar to the microscopic colored chips in all modern explosives. Those are color coded and/or numbered to identify manufacturer and lot/batch. The idea is that after it has been used you can identify exactly where it came from and where it was used.

Stun guns are easier to come by than tasers, and more often used by bad guys than a taser. They are also a good deal quieter, if used with proper technique. At one time, my Army unit trained in the use of stun guns (and batons) to remove sentries/guard animals. They were marginally more useful in certain situations where a silenced pistol shot/submunition was too risky.

Taser parties...no different from those Home Interior/Tupperware/Pampered Chef/etc parties. You spend a lot of money for things you will probably never use. Personally, I'd rather have a pistol by the bed than a Taser. Even if I miss, the pistol has blast/concussive effects that help me out. And a thick leather jacket won't stop my Glasers.

Of course, a 20 gauge pump shotgun (youth model) is an even better choice...:shotgun:

Great for a smaller frame but much harder to conceal ;)

[scubamatt]

Hahaha! I just envisioned Carol as Clint Eastwood in "City Heat". He's walking down the middle of the road with his shotgun (very annoyed after a bullet hit his car) as Burt Reynolds cowers behind the front of a nearby parked car. Reynolds opens his mouth to warn Eastwood about the gangsters at the end of the street (who have been firing submachineguns and pistols at Reynolds). Eastwood pauses and raises an eyebrow at Reynolds. Reynolds cringes as more bullets whine by and he complains:

"Oh, so that's how you do it? Just walk...down the middle of the road...you know there's four guys down there...two on the right...two on the left...they have Tommy Guns....oh never mind...just go ahead..."

And of course Eastwood does what he does best, the frown and the squint, then he starts shooting as he walks down the street, chasing off the gangsters in classic fashion.

:shotgun:

(BTW: I like the youth model 20 gauge because its light and very easy to handle in close quarters. Inside a house, its as deadly as a larger bore shotgun, but twice as maneuverable - plus my wife can handle it comfortably. Nothing in the world will make a burglar reconsider like the sound of a shotgun slide being jacked & racked. If I had to choose only one gun to own, it would be a Remington 870 Youth Model 20 gauge. From hunting to self defense to sporting fun, it does everything well.)

[scubamatt]

I regularly read the BikeSpeak forums as well as this one (as I am a bicycling enthusiast) and someone posted this over there - I thought it was relevant and amusing, so I am reposting it here:

------
A guy who purchased his lovely wife a pocket Taser for their anniversary submitted this:

Last weekend I saw something at Larry's Pistol & Pawn Shop that sparked my interest. The occasion was our 15th anniversary and I was looking for a little something extra for my wife Julie. What I came across was a 100,000-volt, pocket/purse-sized taser. The effects of the taser were supposed to be short lived, with no long-term adverse affect on your assailant, allowing her adequate time to retreat to safety.

WAY TOO COOL!

Long story short, I bought the device and brought it home. I loaded two triple-a batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button. Nothing! I was disappointed. I learned, however, that if I pushed the button AND pressed it against a metal surface at the same time; I'd get the blue arch of electricity darting back and forth between the prongs.

AWESOME!!!

Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Julie what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave! Okay, so I was home alone with this new toy, thinking to myself that it couldn't be all that bad with only two triple-A batteries, right???

There I sat in my recliner, my cat Gracie looking on intently (trusting little soul) while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on a flesh & blood moving target. I must admit I thought about zapping Gracie (for a fraction of a second) but thought better of it. She is such a sweet cat. But, if I was going to give this thing to my wife to protect herself against a mugger, I did want some assurance that it would work as advertised. Am I wrong???

So, there I sat in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of my nose, directions in one hand, and taser in another. The directions said that a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant; a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control; a three-second burst would purportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water. Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries. All the while I'm looking at this little device measuring about 5" long, less than 3/4 inch in circumference; pretty cute really and (loaded with two itsy, bitsy triple-A batteries) thinking to myself, 'no possible way!'

What happened next is almost beyond description, but I'll do my best...

I'm sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head cocked to one side as to say, 'don't do it dumba$$,'
reasoning that a one-second burst from such a tiny little ole thing couldn't hurt all that bad. I decided to give myself a one-second burst just for heck of it. I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button and...
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!

I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, then body slammed us both on the carpet, over and over and over again. I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position, with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles nowhere to be found, with my left arm tucked under my body in the oddest position, and tingling in my legs!

The cat was standing over me making meowing sounds I had never heard before, licking my face, undoubtedly thinking to herself, 'Do it again, stupid, do it again!'

Note: If you ever feel compelled to 'mug' yourself with a taser, one note of caution: there is no such thing as a one-second burst when you zap yourself! You will not let go of that thing until it is dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor. A three-second burst would be considered conservative.

SON-OF-A-*%#... That hurt like **% !!! A minute or so later (I can't be sure, as time was a relative thing at that point), I collected my wits (what little I had left), sat up and surveyed the landscape. My bent reading glasses were on the mantel of the fireplace. How did they get up there??? My triceps, right thigh and both nipples were still twitching. My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocain, and my bottom lip weighed 88 lbs.

I'm still looking for my testicles! I'm offering a significant reward for their safe return!!

P. S. My wife loved the gift, and now regularly threatens to use it on me.
--------------------------
:D

[Carol]

Hahaha! I just envisioned Carol as Clint Eastwood in "City Heat". He's walking down the middle of the road with his shotgun (very annoyed after a bullet hit his car) as Burt Reynolds cowers behind the front of a nearby parked car. Reynolds opens his mouth to warn Eastwood about the gangsters at the end of the street (who have been firing submachineguns and pistols at Reynolds). Eastwood pauses and raises an eyebrow at Reynolds. Reynolds cringes as more bullets whine by and he complains:

"Oh, so that's how you do it? Just walk...down the middle of the road...you know there's four guys down there...two on the right...two on the left...they have Tommy Guns....oh never mind...just go ahead..."

And of course Eastwood does what he does best, the frown and the squint, then he starts shooting as he walks down the street, chasing off the gangsters in classic fashion.

:shotgun:

(BTW: I like the youth model 20 gauge because its light and very easy to handle in close quarters. Inside a house, its as deadly as a larger bore shotgun, but twice as maneuverable - plus my wife can handle it comfortably. Nothing in the world will make a burglar reconsider like the sound of a shotgun slide being jacked & racked. If I had to choose only one gun to own, it would be a Remington 870 Youth Model 20 gauge. From hunting to self defense to sporting fun, it does everything well.)


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I abhor violence.... :D :D :D

[Carol]

I regularly read the BikeSpeak forums as well as this one (as I am a bicycling enthusiast) and someone posted this over there - I thought it was relevant and amusing, so I am reposting it here:



That was a good quote. Its a pity the poor guy had to learn the hard way about electricity's effects on the body...he could have saved himself a lot of trouble. :D

(Putting my electrical engineering hat on for a moment)

Tasers disperse AC power. There is no way to store AC power, therefore the rounds get discharged on leads that keep the prongs connected to the base unit that provides the power. They are single-shot only.

If the prongs make contact, the person is subject to many high-voltage, high amperage bursts of electricity, but in pulses. The pulses go in cycles, pulsing the energy for a few microseconds at a time until the charge from the capacitors is depleted. The pulses sustain enough wattage for the muscles to clench themselves around the electricity. The body's own electric system is a also a form of AC power, which is why Tasers have the disrupting effect that stun guns don't have. The muscles get clenched and the mind confused, for a few seconds.

The guy would have been much better off taking a Taser class, where he would have the opportunity to elect to be Tased at the end of the class....

[arnisador]

Jack Cover dies at 88; scientist invented the Taser stun gun (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-jack-cover13-2009feb13,0,4344955.story)


Jack Cover, an aerospace scientist who invented the Taser stun gun -- a device used by thousands of law enforcement agencies to subdue unruly offenders with electrical shocks -- has died. He was 88.

[sjansen]

I can carry a 3" or less knife or a gun in my state, but I can't carry a taser. Go figure that one out. So, although a taser would be a great option I guess I'll stay with the gun or knife. In my state it has the same consequences legally as using a gun if used and I can't get a ticket or arrested for carrying the gun as I am licensed. Seems pretty messed up, but I won't break the law.

Maybe I'll have my kids take it on as a service project next year in school.