Listing of Lameco Instructors

[silat1]

Is there a way we can get a listing of the instructors who have been with Edgar Sulite and Lameco since the inception of the system.. I would appreciate it as a friend of mine in chicago says there is a guy there who is Lameco, but he won't reference the instructor's name due to him being in the Philippines..

Thanks

Bill

[Guro Dave Gould]

Lameco Eskrima Certified Instructors:

Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite (Founder / Chief Instructor)

1. Christopher Ricketts
2. Benjamin s. Pueblos
3. Lowell S. Pueblos
4. Pablito Gunio
5. Reynaldo S. Galang
6. Dan Inosanto
7. Leonard Trigg
8. Edwin Lim
9. Wolfgang Mueller
10. John Chow
11. Raymond Floro
12. Mar Elepano
13. Ricardo Tucci
14. Steve Grody
15. Greg Allen
16. Gaudiosa Ruby
17. Honesto Nunez
18. Ron Baliki
19. Michael Krivka
20. Keith Wetoskey
21. Don Garon
22. Steve Braun
23. Gary Ruby
24. Dave Gould

Apprentice Instructors:

1. Phil Rapagna
2. Stephen Charlson
3. La Tanya Charlson
4. Teri Carlson
5. Mark Baluff
6. Marc Denny
7. Hans Anton Tan
8. Elmer "Bong" Hebia
9. Roger Agbulos
10. Arlan Sanford
11. Bill Economos
12. John L`Herault
13. Thomas Flannel
14. Tom Doherty
15. Frank Cucci
16. Manuel Tanningco
17. Wayne Keller
18. Pely Ferrer (Removed Dec. 1994)
19. Roland Ferrer
20. Dave Crosby
21. Eugene Amante
22. Larry Lindenman
23. Hal Deily
24. Charles Reed
25. David Hatch
26. Larry Hartsell
27. Steve Tarani
28. Chris Malegri
29. Lynda Hatch
30. Jeff Patterson
31. Sean Haley
32. Amy Tucci
33. Jeff Jones

LAMECO S.O.G. (Goodwin "Backyard" Group):

1. Lowell Pueblos
2. Eric Koh
3. Mar Elepano
4. Hospecio "Bud" Balani, jr.
5. Hans Anton Tan
6. Elmer "Bong" Hebia
7. Marc F. Denny
8. Roger Agbulos
9. Rem V. Cruz
10. Felix Valencia
11. Bryant Emerson
12. Phil Rapagna
13. Steve Grody
14. Dave Gould
15. Choy Flores
16. Dino Flores
17. Steve Tarani
18. Pantaleon Revilles, jr.
19. Arnold Noche
20. Ron Baliki
21. Gary Quan
22. Sung Han Kim
23. Nancy Lewis
24. Jason Ancheta
25. Joel Adriatico
26. Rodney Wilson

[silat1]

Thanks for the information and will forward this to my student in illinois to check with this individual and see if his name is on the list..

Bill

[Guro Dave Gould]

Bill,

This was the list of Recognized Lameco Eskrima Instructors directly under the tutelage of Punong Guro Sulite updated and presented to me on the flight from Edgar himself while he and I were enroute to do Lameco seminars in Germany during February of 1997, just a few weeks before he was felled by his stroke in the Philippines.

We actually have (Had) 4 apprentice Instructors in Chicago:

Bill Economos
John L`Herault
Tom Doherty
Eugene Amante

And of course Ron Baliki who relocated here to Los Angeles from Chicago in 1993. I believe that that John L`Herault was the one that stepped up and took his place as the Head Lameco Eskrima guy there in Chicago once Ron Baliki left. In addition I believe that they were all affiliated once or still are with Fred Degerberg of the Degerberg Academy there in Chicago.

Go well, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould.

[silat1]

Guro Dave,
I thank you for the information as I know a couple of the guys who are affiliated with Ron Balicki.. I had the chance to attend a seminar with Guro Balicki, but due to my relocating back to Guam, I had to pass it up.. I have been to Fred Degerberg's school a few years back when I was stateside on business and took the time to visit..
Lameco is a system that has a strong following and I was wondering how many of the original guys are still actively teaching. I know of one instructor who is referenced on the list that you sent, but when I talked to him he isn't teaching Lameco out in the open any more due to personal choices.

Bill

[Guro Dave Gould]

Bill,

Sadly out of the 24 Certified Instructors and 33 Apprentice Instructors whom were delegated as Recognized Standard Bearers of Lameco Eskrima directly under Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite there are only but a small handfull of us whom only teach Lameco Eskrima exclusively as it was taught to us by Edgar Sulite himself and hold ourselves strictly to the original curriculum.

I know of Benjamin "Jun" Pueblos, Pablito Gunio, Wolfgang Muller, Dino Flores, Bud Balani and myself that only teach Lameco Eskrima as it was taught to us without adding to or taking away from the original curriculum. Others have splintered off and created their own systems such as "Valencia Lameco" or "ASTIG Lameco", etc... these systems are based in Lameco Eskrima but much material has been added in from outside sources. Not that what has been added purely diminishes or increases overall effect but that material has been woven the original system which Punong Guro Sulite had not approved of.

Others only use Lameco Eskrima to enhance their personal resumes. individuals, once Standard Bearers of Lameco Eskrima, now primarily teach Inosanto Blend, Bakbakan, Kali ilustrisimo, Kali Pekiti Tirsia, etc... and most of them only seem to mention Lameco Eskrima as a mere influence and only choose to teach certain aspects of the system piecemeal as it relates to their primary system of choice.

Everyone on the above list has earned their place in the Lameco Eskrima family and all are respected members of that family, I just wish that more would try and perpetuate the legacy of Lameco Eskrima as it was last known to the founder when he was alive and ultimately give respect where it is due. We are brothers and we always will be, I just wish that we were all still united for the cause as we were before.

The Tribute that we did in the name and memory of our fallen founder earlier this year was great because it united us once again in Edgar`s image and goodwill. From my perspective it showed glimpses of our former greatness but on the opposite side of it all it revealed how much we had actually lost as a family in perpetuating Edgars system to those who seek it out unaltered. It was a great week-end and I am greatful the overall experience and the reunion was long overdue but it hurts to acknowledge that we have drifted so far from what we once were as a unified group. Such is life I suppose...

I hope for the day that all who swore their allegiance to Punong Guro Sulite would regain their passion for Lameco Eskrima as it once was and eagerly propagate it in its original form to those that seek it out the world over. It is a daunting task for a select few to be overwhelmed with a task so great that so many were initially chosen to propagate and manage it.

Sorry for the rant, but this is a very emotional subject for me that has not set well with me for some time. Go well, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould.

[Guro Dave Gould]

Adding to what I wrote above no one would be disappointed by working with anyone with a solid Lameco Eskrima background. For Example Felix Valencia was an excellent student under Punong Guro Sulite as was Roger Agbulos and both are doing very well with their own interpretations of Lameco Eskrima.

Others such as Bong Hebia, Rem Cruz and Mar Elepano were once devout Lameco Eskrima practitioners who just simply do not teach which is a shame because all three are all very good and all of them have stayed with the original curriculum. Bong is very impressive as a fighter and one of the few of us to have never trained anything else other than Lameco. If anyone has a chance to train under any of those three at any time consider yourself fortunate.

As for Christopher Ricketts he was a major influence on Lameco Eskrima being the sparring partner of Edgar in the philippines. If anyone wants to further expand there knowledge of Kali Ilustrisimo they have to work with him at some point. As well Ray Floro is an excellent source of information in Australia.

Guro Dave Gould.

[arnisador]

Sadly out of the 24 Certified Instructors and 33 Apprentice Instructors whom were delegated as Recognized Standard Bearers of Lameco Eskrima directly under Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite there are only but a small handfull of us whom only teach Lameco Eskrima exclusively as it was taught to us by Edgar Sulite himself and hold ourselves strictly to the original curriculum.


I always have mixed feelings on this kind of thing, as I have with Modern Arnis since our founder's passing in 2001. On the one hand, I hate to imagine his art and innovations being lost...on the other hand, I feel an instructor must move forward and evolve the art just as the founder did! In the WMAA (http://www.wmarnis.com) we try to eat our cake and have it too by retaining some techniques as extras ("bonus techniques") for black belts so that no info. is lost, even while adding things to the curriculum that we feel it needs and not teaching to underbelts things that no longer are a good fit. It's a hard thing to stop teaching what was taught by the founder, yet it's a real concern to keep teaching only what we learned from him without keeping up with new developments and our own personal growth. Of course, JKD, Kenpo, etc. have all had this happen to them and had the same debates.

I see you addressed some of this in your post that followed this one. I too always hope that someone preserves the classical form of the system. One hates to see an art lost.

[Guro Dave Gould]

Arnisador,

Thanks for commenting and I do agree with you, although that acknowledgement in and of itself does not make it any easier to accept. I have made the very point that you were making to myself a few times in the past yet I still regret that this is the reality of things. Having said that I do reluctantly accept things as they are and I genuinely wish everyone success on their individual personal journey`s. The most important thing to me is that Edgar Sulite keeps getting recognized for his contributions and it does please me that everyone from our organization continues to do that.

I myself have chosen to guard and protect the original curriculum which allows for more than plenty of opportunity for self growth. The unique thing about Lameco Eskrima is that the very essence of it is to remain challenged in training and to strive to create a better delivery system. The system is designed to continue to push the student to achieve excellence in combative movement and to continuously push the student to evolve as a human being, a fighter and a warrior.

Concerning combat each encounter sharpens you and hones your reaction as if Iron were being brushed against Iron. In the end each experience faced in actual combat pushes us to evolve as warriors or get left behind. I have always found Lameco Eskrima a vast enough expanse to absorb that concept, harness its sound combative principles and expound on them for greater effect.

I understand that the very thing for which I stand in opposition was the very catylist that brought Lameco Eskrima into existance to begin with. Had Edgar kept Sulite Rapelon, De campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal, Kali Illustrisimo, Kali Pekiti-Tirsia and Modernos Largos separate and detached from one another this conversation would be quite moot today as there would be no Lameco Eskrima to discuss.

I am thankful for my Lameco brothers that stay the course in propagating the original curriculum and I truly wish those that desire to evolve beyond it great success. I only ask that they not forget where they came from and that they acknowledge the sacrifices made which gave them the opportunities which they enjoy for a successful and secure future.

Just as Punong Guro Sulite acknowledged his Instructors and their individual contributions in the creation of Lameco Eskrima so should his students and Standard Bearers do so equally concerning the continuation of or next level of evolution of that system.

Guro Dave Gould.

[gagimilo]

I can quite well uunderstand the ambivalent feelings one usually have in this type of situation. However, I believe that in order to really trully pay tribute to any founder of a system, the instructors should primarilly stick to his methodological teachnigs. I of course never had the opportunity to meet or train with PG Sulite, but from what I have seen and read (which is of course possible completely wrong), he was into always growing as a functional fighter and stressing the efficiency in sparring/combet as the main criteria for developing one's fighting stule. If I remember correctly, Guro Gould once wrote that he had seen personally PG adding and deleting laban-laro drills from the curriculum, in order to make it more practial and functional.
Also, being that the LAMECO curriculum consists of five principal influences, it only seems logical to me that certain practitioners might feel more "at home" with some of those over others. From my limited exposure to training methods of various SOG members, I can only say that Guro Agbulos, for example, emphasises more of the De Campo portion in his ASTIG methodology, as well as some of Ilustrisimo, which appeals to me personally as such. Of course, I would very much like, and will try whenever possible, to get some hands-on instruction from any of LAMECO people who trained in the original art/system, in a sincere wish to at least try and get a glimpse of what PG Edgar was about.

I would like to add that along with some very caring and much appreciated "virtually" personal instruction from Guro Agbulos, Guro Gould's writings have been most influential in my understanding and approach to FMA training, so every new post, article, comment, rant... is eagerly expected and most heartilly welcomed from my side.

Maraming salamat!

[gagimilo]

BTW, I have seen on the web site of guro Roberto Torres of Talio silat that he was appointed an instructor of LAMECO directly by PG Sulite, supposedly with th recertificate no. 001! However, I do not see him in the list provided here, so I was wondering what's up with that..?

[Guro Dave Gould]

Gagimilo,

Hello there, thanks for the kind words in your previous post, they are much appreciated. In regards to your post above I had this conversation with PG Sulite in February 1997 enroute to Germany concerning Roberto Torres and the answer is no he was never certified as an Instructor in Lameco Eskrima.

He was however one of the few taken through the "Elementary" Level of De campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal by PG Sulite. Mr. Torres was the first person to bring Edgar to the United States to teach a Lameco Eskrima Seminar and Mr. Torres indeed did receive Instruction in Lameco Eskrima under Edgar but he never reached Instructor status in our system. There were numerous reasons for this which I will not go into on this forum as I feel it unecessary to reveal them to the public at this time.

The list that I posted earlier in this thread was the last revised Instructors list approved by Punong Guro Sulite just 5 weeks before he was felled by his stroke in the philippines, any other claims of people after the fact not named on that list are subjective and considered suspicious at best.

Guro Dave Gould.

[gagimilo]

Thanx for the clarification sir.
My question was not aimed at belittling (is that a word?) anyone's skill, background or reputation, just an honest question out of curiosity, i.e. sincere desire to learn as much as possible about Lameco.
Speaking of which... I guess that we all understant by now that Eskrima de Campo played a great, if not the crucial role in the formation of Lameco. In another forum, I find out that you have gone through three level of De Campo training under PG Sulite. My question, stemming from that, is did he also teach De Campo as a separate curriculum?

[Guro Dave Gould]

Dragan,

Hello, no worries I did not take your query out of context. Neither the question presented nor the answer given was meant to belittle anyone, I see it only as clarification and nothing more. The very reason that the list was first compiled was to give those whom desire to search out qualified Instructors in Lameco Eskrima a database of names of first generation Standard Bearers recognized by Punong Guro Sulite to do so.

You would be surprised at how many people came forth falsely claiming Instructor status in Lameco Eskrima which none of us had ever heard of shortly after Punong Guro Sulite had passed away. The good thing about only having a small number of recognized Standard Bearers of a system is that we all know or at least know of each other.

As for De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal as I have stated before it is the nucleus of Lameco Eskrima which Punong Guro Sulite adequately utilized to lay a very effective combative foundation and everything else which we see in the system was built on that foundation. Punong Guro Sulite commented to me time and time again that De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal was his confidense system and when fighting he would revert back to its combative principles and concepts and finish his opponents quickly.

The original system (De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal) was not offered separately as a sub-system in Lameco Eskrima but Punong Guro Sulite took a great deal of that system and rearranged it so that his students would benefit from it. The original system was presented to only a few of us closest to him, some of us completed the "Elementary" level and others went on to complete the "Highschool" level and others completed the "College" level. In addition to Lameco Eskrima I was taken through the college level of De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal.

As Lameco Eskrima matured more and more of the original De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal curriculum was added to it for combative effect. The few of us that were given the original system were given it for experimental reasons, it was sort of a guage for Punong Guro Sulite to determine where the system (Lameco) was lacking and how much more of the original De Campo curriculum should be added in oreder to complete Lameco Eskrima as an overall effective combative system.

Why all the secrecy you may ask? Before the old Man died (Manong Caballero) he made all of his students promise him that they would not publicly teach his system as he taught it to them. Manong Caballero felt that the system had come into this world created by him and that it should go out with him. Punong Guro Sulite wanted to keep his promise and save for a few of his closest students he kept that promise as he never "Publically" taught the system as it was taught to him.

As well Manong Eric Olivides the rightful heir of De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal did the same and only after years of constant nagging from his students did he agree to publically teach De campo uno-Dos-Tres orihinal. But he rearranged it and renamed it De Campo JDC-IO (Jose D. Caballero - Ireneo Olivides) out of respect to the founder; Manong Jose D. Caballero. But to his older students loyal to him he taught the original system as did Mawi Caballero the son of Manong Caballero who actually teaches the original system today in the Philippines.

Am I special because I received this closed training from Punong Guro Sulite which was not offered to alot of my other Lameco brothers? No, I think not, I am just lucky and very appreciative for that great act of kindness and generocity. Besides everyone received the most important lessons that the system was designed to convey which are its sound combative principles and concepts with that being the case does it really matter if they were given in numerical order or not? As long as the knowledge is in you it should not matter how it was transmitted only that it was transmitted and properly received.

I hope that this addresses your questions Dragan. Go well, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould.

[gagimilo]

Hello there sir!

As usual, you did a superb job of making another fine contribution to the body of knowledge available in this forum. Matter of fact, I got more than I was hoping for... Essentially, Lameco happens to be closest to my view of what an approach to training should be, hence my never-ending quest for knowledge and information. However, even though combative function is my primary priority, I also have a lot of interest in the cultural and historical background of the art, hence the type of my last couple of inquiries.
Still, I am trying really hard to make a point of spending more time in training than in internet searching and similar "knowledge enrichment processes" of sometime s dubious quality.
With regards to the last one, it really is pity that there is no more Lameco people putting out some kind instructional material, in order for those of us who never had the opportunity to meet and train with "real deal" people to hopefully benefit from. Speaking of which, I would also like if you had published you own videos under some other company, such as Pladin, but OK, it is out there, it is now after me to find the way and put my hands on them, no matter how complicated it might be. Anyway, enough whining, off to do some sweatin' while stickin' it out!

[corwin137]

Hello there sir!...

...With regards to the last one, it really is pity that there is no more Lameco people putting out some kind instructional material, in order for those of us who never had the opportunity to meet and train with "real deal" people to hopefully benefit from...
On the coattails of the question about instructional material (but hoping not to derail the thread too much)- Steve Grody (via E. Sulite and D. Inosanto, directly) has recently released his Kali empty hands vids on DVD.

[Guro Dave Gould]

Corwin137,

Hello there, I hope that all is well with you. Steve Grody is one of our Lameco Brothers as well as a great personal friend of mine. I have always enjoyed any training that he and I did together and I highly recommend him to anyone seeking refinement in both realms of Kali and Jeet-Kune-Do equally.

However the majority of the information in his "Kali Empty Hands" series currently available to the public is influenced heavily from Lacoste Kali as taught by Guro Dan Inosanto. Not too much Lameco in there... I have viewed the series several times and without hesitation I highly recommend it to you all.

Go well, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould.

[corwin137]

Corwin137,

Hello there, I hope that all is well with you. Steve Grody...

...However the majority of the information in his "Kali Empty Hands" series currently available to the public is influenced heavily from Lacoste Kali as taught by Guro Dan Inosanto. Not too much Lameco in there...

Greetings Guro Gould- hope I'm not taking the thread too far off topic... not having been able to train with PG Sulite, could you say a little about how much empty hand as opposed to weapon stuff he taught, and maybe a little about what some of the content was? I know it's asking a lot in addition to being arguably off-topic.
Hope you and yours are well...

[Guro Dave Gould]

Corwin137,

Hello there, I hope that all is well with you. Sorry for the delay in responding to your query but I have been in Panama and Mexico conducting Lameco Eskrima seminars and only returned last night.

Yes there is quite a bit of emty hand material in our system which PG Sulite simply called "Mano-Mano" (Buto-Buto). As in most Pilipino Systems concerning combat and depending on how escalated a situation has evolved our Empty Hand series were designed to prolong the most critical situations long enough to create enough space and time where we may deploy a weapon (Knife) and defend against another weapon.

If no weapons were introduced than the empty hand portion of the curriculum in and of itself was enough to adequately manage and neutralize most situations encountered. The use of punches, elbows, head butts, knees, kicks, finger jabs, hair pulling, breaks, take downs, trapping, locking, pinning and stomping of joints are mostly involved in the empty hand portion of the curriculum.

This material came from the "Batangas" sub-system in Lameco Eskrima. Basicaly with a knife in hand there are three levels of escalation: 1)- Knife handle used to solidify the hand while using punches, kicks, head-butts, elbows and knees yet never allowing the knife handle to come into contact with the opponent. Kind of like a roll of quarters in the old days. 2)- When an impact weapon has been introduced than the handle of the still closed knife can be used to defend life and limb. As in using a pocket stick, rock or brick. 3)- When an edged weapon has been introduced than the blade will be deployed and used in defense of life and limb. So depending on the level of escalation and danger faced directly dictates the level of response and lethal or less-than-lethal action necessitated.

Go well, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould.

[Twist]

Hello Guro Dave,
always interesting to read your posts. Thanks !

You say, the Empty Hands in Lameco comes from the Batangas Subsystem.

Did PG Edgar Sulite ever tell you which of the styles he trained in actually did have their own empty hand methods?

I ask because empty hands in FMA is a controversial topic for me. In contrary to the statements of so many styles I cant help myself but think that a whole lot of them actually use(d) foreign empty hand arts and just now claim to have 'original century-old filipino' empty hand methods.

When I was in the Philippines, most of the styles I visited were highly influenced by foreign martial arts when it came to empty hands (although of course not all of them). Judo/JiuJitsu for the Doce Pares Clubs I visited (Cacoy, Diony, San Miguel, Carin), chinese martial arts in some Cebuano styles (Tat Kun Tao, Gokosha, Gopusa), Karate in Modern Arnis, Boxing in KI and some Balintawak, Silat in the southern styles, even Tai Chi, KungFu, ...

As for me, I dont care where it comes from as long as it works, and Filipinos are known to incorporate working techniques/methods into their fighting styles, but I'm always a little skeptical when nowadays everyone claims to have 'the only original filipino empty hand fighting'.


So it would be interesting to know if PG Edgar Sulite ever talked about his empty hand training ...

[Guro Dave Gould]

Twist,

Hello there, I hope that all is well with you there in Germany. Thanks for commenting on the thread.

PG Sulite spoke of the "Batangas" (Balisong) system as a knife fighting system with lethal, less-than-lethal and empty hand implications. Batangas is a village located in Northern Luzon which is the place where the batangas knife (balisong) was first created. PG Sulite wrote the second of his 3 books "Advanced Balisong" covering material from now sub-system of Lameco Eskrima.

As for Lameco Eskrima PG Sulite always clarified that Lameco was neither a stick fighting system, nor was it a sword fighting system or knife fighting system. Rather it was an effective combative system which could be translated and used in accordance with what ever instrument of that could be placed in the human hand. To the extent that you find nothing with which to fight and you would translate that combative knowledge bone to bone (buto-buto).

The curriculum of Lameco Eskrima is the same concerning all weapons and weapon combinations however the major difference found in the translation and usage of each technique, concept or principle is found in the emphasis of the weapon used or lack of weapon. You will fight differently with a knife than you would with a stick which would be fought with differently than a sword or machete.

One system with many different facets of usage, direclty dependant on the type of weapon used and what the major emphasis of those weapons are. In answering the second part of your question I doubt that any system can trace their lineage to pure pilipino heritage. After all we are talking of a culture that for centuries has been interacting with numerous asiatic tribes regionally and let us not forget the 1521 - 1898 Spanish occupation. What is Indonesian? What is Malaysian? What is influenced from Borneo? What is Spanish? What is Dutch? What is Portuguese? What is Pilipino? This is a very difficult question to enter into as there is much conjecture in any probable answer.

Its over all combative effect is enough for me... regardless from whence it came. Go well, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould.

[Guro Dave Gould]

As well guys Kali Pekiti- Tirsia was a major empty-hand influence on Lameco Eskrima. Tuhon Leo T. Gaje jr. has a very elaborate sub-system in this regard.

In addition Kali Ilustrisimo has very good empty hand against the knife.

There are numerous influences and all deserve an honorable mention but the concentrated majority of the empty hand curriculum in Lameco was from the "Batangas" system.

Guro Dave Gould.

[gagimilo]

I agree with Guro Gould in the sense of functionality being more crucial point here than the geographical origin. after all, in my view the exact characteristic feature of FMA lies on the fact that they are able to ADAPT. In other words, it means, on one hand, the ability to manage yourself in any situation at hand, but also to take whatever new experiences (including seeing/feeling other fighting systems) and adapt them (read: integrate them) in one's own training and apply them combatively.
Finally, I believe that the main reason for FMA keeping its combative edge in modern day is the cultural heritage of emphasizing the function over the form, unlike some traditional arts coming from other Eastern countries.

OK, now off I go to tackle my training challenges...

[citom]

Batangas is a village located in Northern Luzon which is the place where the batangas knife (balisong) was first created.

Minor correction: Batangas is a province in Southern Luzon. Balisong is the name of a barangay (village) in the municipality of Taal, which is in Batangas province. Barangay Balisong is reputed to be the birthplace of the balisong.

[Guro Dave Gould]

Thank you for the correction Citom...

Guro Dave Gould.

[corwin137]

Corwin137,

Hello there, I hope that all is well with you. Sorry for the delay...

...our Empty Hand series were designed to prolong the most critical situations long enough to create enough space and time where we may deploy a weapon (Knife) and defend against another weapon.

...The use of punches, elbows, head butts, knees, kicks, finger jabs, hair pulling, breaks, take downs, trapping, locking, pinning and stomping of joints are mostly involved in the empty hand portion of the curriculum.

...Basicaly with a knife in hand there are three levels of escalation: 1)- Knife handle used to solidify the hand while using punches, kicks, head-butts, elbows and knees yet never allowing the knife handle to come into contact with the opponent. Kind of like a roll of quarters in the old days. 2)- When an impact weapon has been introduced than the handle of the still closed knife can be used to defend life and limb. As in using a pocket stick, rock or brick. 3)- When an edged weapon has been introduced than the blade will be deployed and used in defense of life and limb. So depending on the level of escalation and danger faced directly dictates the level of response and lethal or less-than-lethal action necessitated.

Go well, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould.
Thanks much for noting those items. Really interesting to see not just the number of tools, but some attention to different levels of force, and other potential concerns (other tools showing up etc.). Those things all largely mirror what I've gotten.

Could I pry further and ask how the material was organized? Meaning, did he isolate "kickboxing" tools, time hitting (or sectoring if one prefers), gunting, destructions, locks/traps/throws, tools, ranges, "foul tactics" etc, then integrate? Assuming I missed some things too.

Hope I'm not leaning on you for too much... thanks again.

[Datu AbdulJakul Salsalani]

This topic is a very interesting.

I am wandering if one your gentleman would be so kind as to elaborate further on the difference between the Astig Lameco and Valencia Lameco methodolgy to advance my understanding and erradicate my ignorances as per the various versions of Lameco.

What are the major differences between Valencia Lameco and the Astig Lameco?

And also if your gentleman would be so kind as to explain perhaps the definition of Astig? I understand that Valencia is a family name, but what are the meaning of the Astig?

Salamat,

Datu Abdul Jakul Salsalani

[Buwaya]

And also if your gentleman would be so kind as to explain perhaps the definition of Astig? I understand that Valencia is a family name, but what are the meaning of the Astig?

Salamat,

Datu Abdul Jakul Salsalani

It's tagalog slang. Kinda means cool, tough or hardcore. Comes from the word tigas.

[gagimilo]

According to Guro Agbulos, who is the founder of the school (please note that I wrote school and not style or system) ASTIG means "hard core" or "die hard", basically pointing to the dedication to those very fundamental principles of Lameco, i.e. functionality and comabative efficency.

Regarding the specific features of the ASTIG methodology, you can find more in GM Rey Galang's books "Masters of the Blade" and "Warrior Arts of the Philippines", or at the web site www.astiglameco.com (http://www.astiglameco.com)

I hope this was of some help...
Cheers!

[Tiger Hand]

Are any of these guys, specifically, teaching out in Alaska around the Anchorage area?
I've been learning from Wayne Keller out in Oregon the past few years, but I'm going to be in Alaska for a few years and I got no intentions of quitting. Lameco is a pretty good style, and if I can find a teacher I'd like to get some time in their training hall/dojo/gym/garage.

Sorry to bring up a kind of dead topic, but I'm hoping for a lead.