Hard Sticks in Class.

[arnisador]

Where I'm training now, there is one student who uses very hard sticks during class. (They're taped, so I'm not sure just what type of wood it is.) He's a judoka who is learning the FMA--a big guy--and he seems to be trying to show that he can handle big, heavy sticks. It's a little bit show-offy, I think, but he also intends it as an aid to his training by swinging a heavier object.

The rest of the class uses rattan, and several students have complained to him that his sticks are tearing through their rattan. (We do a lot of sinawalis.) A couple of the smaller students have also complained that it's simply uncomfortable for them to work with him because of the heavy sticks against their light sticks.

The instructor is aware of this and has not objected to his use of the heavy sticks, so I have said nothing. It's his school, after all, and I can handle his sticks fine during training. But, my sticks are wearing out noticeably faster than usual. He has heavy sticks and is a big man who swings them hard every time. Good training for him, and I do like a partner who really goes for it, but it's tough on my rattan!

The student is moving to another city soon so the problem will solve itself, but I just find this poor stickwork etiquette. If you're going to use adamantiumwood sticks in practice despite the risk to your own elbows, find someone who wants to do the same! Not looking for advice here, just sounding off.

[Brian R. VanCise]

I agree with you. Really he should be a little more considerate
to his fellow training partners. I get around this at my
Training Hall by always providing the sticks for use. Therefore
everyone is always using the same sticks. Plus when hardwood sticks
break you do not want to be around them whether they are taped
or not! If the instructor is not going to handle it, I just would tell
him that you do not want to practice until he gets sticks similar to
everyone else. However, it looks like this problem will be resolved
quickly because of his imminent move.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[Marvin Diem]

adamantiumwood sticks

Nice Arnisador, 2 points for that one :laugh:

[JPR]

I always feel bad when I frag someone elses sticks. Ok, ok, I feel good for a minute with my soaring ego of "man what power I have", but then I do feel bad. Really I do.

Jerry

[arnisador]

He's a nice guy, and I like him, but I don't think he really gets what the depleted uranium sticks do to others' sticks. He is a big, stocky, strong guy who often ends up paired with a student who is probably less than half his weight and using rattan, and she just can't match him. She's asked him to consider using rattan, but he likes these sticks, he says. I don't think he realizes he's being rude, but I feel he is indeed being rude. I worked with him most of last night and I once again had noticeable fraying after that one class, and these are relatively new sticks.

[The Boss]

I would refuse to work with him unless he is willing to buy you new sticks. Of course you could fight fire with fire and have Datu Hartman send you some Monster Sticks of your own!

[arnisador]

Of course you could fight fire with fire and have Datu Hartman send you some Monster Sticks of your own!

Oh, Mr. Hartman would love to have me stop using my thin little "chopsticks" as he calls them! But last time I was there I had him pick out sticks for me to keep me from picking the thinnest toothpicks I could find, and that's what I'm using with this guy. They're a good weight and thickness--but still rattan.

I don't want to refuse to work with him, though if he wasn't moving soon I might have to consider it...but fighting fire with fire is tempting. What's a case of tennis elbow to teach this guy a lesson, after all? :)

[Balintawak]

1) You can approach the issue, that is solo training should be wth the heavy sticks, but for the safety in class, wood shatters and splinters, eventually and flying wood is not good. It is all fun and games until some looses an eye.

2) By a set of synthetic sticks and shatter is heavey wooden sticks to splinters, and when he has to go out and buy more, he might get the idea that it is better to play well with others. Just remember point one and where some safety goggles, I recommend the clear Smith and Wesson safety shields or goggles or glasses as they are called, and you can get a strap spo they stay tight to your head.

[Bob Hubbard]

Get 2 properly sized lengths of main power line (the inch thick copper stranded cables, with thick plastic wrap on the outside.

You will feel nothing. He however, will. :)

You'll also get a hell of an upper body workout swinging those things. LOL

[bart]

Hey There,

I have a rule that I use for myself and my students:

"I will replace any stick that I break whether mine or my partner's."

There are of course safety issues with the choice of sticks. I have a set of guidelines for the 3 sets of sticks that I require for my students:

1. 2 28" rattan sticks (standard)
2. 2 32" rattan sticks (heavy)
3. 2 28" unvarnished rattan sticks (light)

I have people who use alternate materials, but it's done at my discretion. IMHO hardwood is only for solo training and combat. I've seen hardwood sticks shatter and the splinters go everywhere. I've also seen some nasty slivers from disarms and the like. Of course this all depends on the type of wood, but for the most part rattan sticks come cheaper than the type of hardwood you need for repetitive stick to stick eskrima drills.

[SAL]

Here's a little story on the Professor's take on hardwood sticks.

Many years ago while the Professor was between seminars and was hanging out at our dojo for the week, I saw him do something very strange.

Two of my classmates were working on some technique and in the process one of them got popped in the head. While this is not a strange occurrence, however one guy was using a pair of Filipino hardwood sticks. The Professor goes over to check on things and snaps out on the guy with the hardwood. He tells him (and us) that hardwood sticks are for killing and not for training. I've seen professor in moods other than his jovial self but never anything like this.
Maybe it brought back some bad memories from his time in the PI.

From that day on I only use my heavy sticks for solo training and building hand speed.

SAL

[arnisador]

I knew he said to use rattan for training but hadn't heard this story. It does fit with his experiences in actual stick fights and his desire to make an art that people could enjoy without injury, though.

Yeah, I'd hate to have him (or me) "miss" in a sinawali and take it on the hand...which happens often enough, after all.

[Danny T]

The Professor goes over to check on things and snaps out on the guy with the hardwood. He tells him (and us) that hardwood sticks are for killing and not for training.

Yes! That is why we use rattan for training. It is relatively soft and forgiving. It will give bruises but not major trauma for the most part. It will fray rather than shatter or splinter. Those of you who carry rattan sticks in the guise of using them to defend yourself are in a rude awakening when they don't stop the other guy. Rattan for training, hardwood for fighting. If you train with someone using hardwood for training purposes then you are foolish! Don't worry about your equipment be concerned about your body when you get struck!

Danny

[Brian R. VanCise]

Danny,

That is a good post that could not be reiterated enough. Rattan is a great training tool. Rattan is durable, flexible and because of this it
absorbs vibrations well. It also frays instead of shattering and this
fraying action is great because people generally do not get hurt from
it. The same cannot be said for the shattering aspect of hardwood
sticks. Hardwood sticks are however great for actual use in a
combative manner in that they are not forgiving when they hit flesh
and bone. Good post.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[Sheldon Bedell]

Excellent posts on why one stick should be used for class and the other for combat
thanks

[arnisador]

Well, he frayed my sticks to the point where every swing leaves rattan dust on the floor! I'll try wrapping them. He is no longer attending due a job-related move (though it's only an hour away, so he may visit on occasion), so the problem is pretty much solved.

[WT_ATL]

Of course you could fight fire with fire and have Datu Hartman send you some Monster Sticks of your own!

I recommend the Monster Sticks. I just got a pair from Tim, 32 inches in length and thick as hell. Even after just a few practice sessions, I can definitely see the increase in speed and endurance when I transition back to my 7/8 inch sticks.

--Winston

[arnisador]

Yeah, I've swung them at his school. They're something! Or, I could borrow his axe handle...

[Sheldon Bedell]

axe handls now that is something I have around but have not tried yet. I think I'll let my students try a couple of them (not against each other) to see how their arms feel after playingfor a while

[arnisador]

Mr. Hartman has an axe handle (no axe head in it). The weight distribution is somewhat like that of a baseball bat, but heavier at the end. It's interesting to play with. Makes you think about how you'd block it with a regular cane!

[Sheldon Bedell]

I have been hit accidently with an axe handle befor and with a baseball bat can't say I remember much of a difference both hurt like hell

Not sure if most canes sold to the puplic would hold up to a strong swing from either unless the block was a deflection or angled block, stright on I think most store bought canes would break

[arnisador]

So, to replace the sticks shredded by the hardwood sticks, I grab a pair of unused rattan sticks that have been sitting on my shelf for a few months. These things are noticeably light even for rattan, and shed when used against rattan! They are the lightest sticks I've ever had. They must be a 'bad batch' or something--they leave sawdust everywhere and I feel every hit, even against normal rattan. They're regular thickness, but...I don't know, too dried out? I bought 4 pair at the time and this pair was so bad I'm going to trash them, and another pair is not quite as bad but similar. The other two pair are fine. Must be bad luck!

[Brian R. VanCise]

Arnisador,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I have long ago given up
on buying rattan sticks from anyone, other than in 6,8 or 9 foot
bundles. Then I just cut them to my desired length. This
way you can avoid the thin ones. Once again sorry to hear
about your rattan stick problems.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)