Differences/similarities MA and Balintawak

[Buwaya]

Hi,
I've seen a little MA. Some practitioners here and there, footage of GM Remy from the 60's or 70's, some footage of GM Ernesto.

Ditto with Balitiwak, flowed a bit with someone from Moncal's line, chatted with guys who trained balitawak in Cebu, seen a little bit of GM Tabaoda(sp?).

So, just curious, from the perspective of the people on this forum, what are the big differences?

Ditto with similarities.

Thanks.

[Buwaya]

Actually, just thought of one more thing I wanted to know, was there anything thing that you guys saw Prof. Presas do that was pretty much token or signiture balintawak?

Asking for curiositys sake.

Thanks!

[arnisador]

One big difference is that Modern Arnis is intended as a general self-defense system, including extensive empty-hand training (with numerous empty-hand forms, for example), whereas Balintawak is principally a stick-dueling system. I also think that Modern Arnis has more techniques for fighting at largo, in addition to medio and corto, while Balintawak is a close-in system.

A more specific difference is that in Modern Arnis one frequently grabs the stick, whereas in Ted Buot's version of Balintawak, at least, one rarely grabs the stick with a closed hand.

I'm no Balintawak expert, though--someone more knowledgeable about both arts can give a better answer!

[arnisador]

Actually, just thought of one more thing I wanted to know, was there anything thing that you guys saw Prof. Presas do that was pretty much token or signiture balintawak?

If someone pressed him--a rare happenstance!--the Balintawak would often come out.

[loki09789]

Hi,
I've seen a little MA. Some practitioners here and there, footage of GM Remy from the 60's or 70's, some footage of GM Ernesto.

Ditto with Balitiwak, flowed a bit with someone from Moncal's line, chatted with guys who trained balitawak in Cebu, seen a little bit of GM Tabaoda(sp?).

So, just curious, from the perspective of the people on this forum, what are the big differences?

Ditto with similarities.

Thanks.

Modern Arnis is a Concept Art. The training is designed to give you a fundamental movement pattern, link it to and idea/concept OF movement and then you work at finding ways to create/apply that movement to different situations.

Balintawak is just as adaptability/reactiveness focused, but is more systematic and technically driven in the early stages. Also, it is more simplified in terms of 'basics.'

Bacause MA focuses on many concepts, there are many more fundamental movement patterns than Balintawak has in it.

[Blotan Hunka]

Why is everybody so territorial over Balintawak here?

Most of the stuff I have read since getting here seems to be about who knows the most about it.

Arent most of you modern arnis people anyway?

Nobodys fighting over who knows more Shotokan and isnt that a large component of MA too?

[Datu Tim Hartman]

For those of us who are from Remy Presas' Modern Arnis, have roots in Balintawak. GM Remy A.Presas was one of GM Bacon's top fighters.

[Blotan Hunka]

So what does that mean about balintawak and MA?

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Modern Arnis is influenced by Balintawak.

[Blotan Hunka]

OK. What are the other influences and why dont people seem to care about who knows most about them?

I studied some Shotokan does that make me a better MA player than someone who did not?

Do I have to study Balintawak to be a better MA player?

[The Boss]

Do I have to study Balintawak to be a better MA player?
I wouldn't think so but it might help. Who did you train under in Modern Arnis?

[arnisador]

I studied some Shotokan does that make me a better MA player than someone who did not?

Well, I imagine you'd do better at the anyos--or at least, you'd do them more traditionally! In my experience learning the footwork/mobility is hard for those who--like me!--came to Modern Arnis from a karate background.


Do I have to study Balintawak to be a better MA player?

I don't think so, but I think it's enlightening, and it certainly has th epotential to help.

[Blotan Hunka]

I wouldn't think so but it might help. Who did you train under in Modern Arnis?

Ill show you mine when you show me yours.

[The Boss]

Ill show you mine when you show me yours.

PG Manglinong, and you?

[Sheldon Bedell]

This may have been covered before but dose Balintawak deal with the knife more than MA?

[Cruentus]

This may have been covered before but dose Balintawak deal with the knife more than MA?

No, Balintawak as the founder Anciong Bacon taught it is strictly a stick dueling system. about every instructor had there own knife or empty hand translations, though, as being able apply one thing to another goes with the culture. But it generally wasn't taught as part of the system.

Paul

[Blotan Hunka]

PG Manglinong, and you?

I got one of those PM things saying I was suspended. I dont know if that means Im not supposed to post for a week or what, but my instructor is Guro T. Botting.

[eskrimador]

Here in RP we`re not concerned about this connection. We do recognized that Prof. Remy trained under Maestro Bacon. But we believe to be a practitioner of MA one must expose to other martial arts so that he/she can develop more skills and insights on the applicability of stick fighting system. That`s why we called it Modern, we`re not trying to be purist, all we need is practicality and sort of aesthetics and recreation.

[lhommedieu]

I visited a MA school the other day and got a chance to watch the students working out. It looked like Balintawak to me. The head instructor got his teacher's certificate back in 1985 or so and isn't really active in the MA community except to run his gym and teach MA to a small cadre of students. His guys had excellent skills.

Re. the connection between MA and Balintawak, as well as a discussion of some of the differences between the arts with respect to Dan Anderson's espada y daga curriculum, you may find this article (http://northshoreac.com/san_miguel_eskrima/anderson_forward.htm)interesting.

FWIW, as a young man Remy Presas moved freely within the Doce Pares and Balintawak communities of Cebu and learned from the very best teachers (including San Miguel Eskrima's Momoy Canete). That certain aspects of Cebuano eskrima would surface in MA should not be surprising.

Best,

Steve Lamade