RE: FMA styles that GM Leo Gaje practices in the past

[truth_be_told]

as my enquiries in previous thread had been missed, thot i put up a new topic.

http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=1996&page=2
http://www.fmatalk.com/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.fmatalk.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12795)
quick question for tuhorn leo gaje :

"Is it true that you had trained in other Arnis / Eskrima styles in your younger days ? If yes, what are the styles / who are the teachers ?

thank you

[GrandTuhon Leo T Gaje Jr]

as my enquiries in previous thread had been missed, thot i put up a new topic.

http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=1996&page=2
http://www.fmatalk.com/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.fmatalk.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12795)
quick question for tuhorn leo gaje :

"Is it true that you had trained in other Arnis / Eskrima styles in your younger days? If yes, what are the styles / who are the teachers ?

thank you

Thank you for your inquiry.You are in your prime age to ask question because I know you may have a good idea what is FMA.

It is my practice that when a question about PTK I always face them face to face so that I can explain what is the thruth.

Why don't you have an appointment with me so that you see the whole picture of my training . And if you have a good system you can show to me.

Several styles of FMA,.claims that PTK is their style so meaning there is an interest why they wanted to claim PTK as part of their style.

In 1988 I called for the Battle of Grandmaster so that I can find out who has the right to claim, unfortunately no wish to do our rules of the battle.

You might be the first to test. GT Gaje

[viejo]

Grand Tuhon, the question was very clear "Did u ever train in other styles and who were the teachers?
I have also another question, how big was the influence from Mr Ed. Jafri's silat in your style?

Thanks and best regards

Viejo

[pinoyboxer]

Hola Viejo!

I don't presume to answer for GT Gaje, but people also ask me this same question. I know for a fact that the late Pendekar Jafri took a lot of influence from GT Gaje. Pendekar Jafri actually incorporated a lot of Pekiti Tirsia (especially the PTK footwork and knife) into his Silat. I have this on good authority from several former students and teachers of Jafri.

Plus, I'm pretty familiar with what Pendekar Jafri was teaching whilst in the United States and you cannot really source anything in PTK past or present to that material.

So that was my two pennies worth.

Salamat!

[GrandTuhon Leo T Gaje Jr]

as my enquiries in previous thread had been missed, thot i put up a new topic.

http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=1996&page=2
http://www.fmatalk.com/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.fmatalk.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12795)
quick question for tuhorn leo gaje :

"Is it true that you had trained in other Arnis / Eskrima styles in your younger days ? If yes, what are the styles / who are the teachers ?

thank you

My younger days were devoted with my grandfather. That's it.

You must have read my web site. It explains my system.if you study with me you can distinguish my training with other styles. I am a Pekiti-Tirsia.If I ever studied with other people then I should have adopted the Japanese materials in my system. That is the reason that you have to meet me face to face so that I can make a distinction for your personal satisfaction. If you are looking for the truth face me. If I have a formal training with anyone then I won't hesitate to put him into my biodata. I have exchanged techniques with several old Kali men in a very limited meetings it doesn't mean I studied with them or adopted their style. When I exchanged techniques, I study the weakness of that style. In 1979 First Kali Arnis Kali Tournament in Cebu City, Philippines , I put only one American against all styles in the Philippines( First full Contact tournament in the the Philippines) Pekiti-Tirsia won the Grand Championship on record. Our culture is bravery and courage . You don't steal , stealing is disrespect. Then we open for challenge if that happens.

99% of the Arnis, Eskrima have all the mixtures that is for you know. So you must understand and know what is the real FMA and then you ask questions. If you are practicing FMA now then you do research deligently.

So far about Eddie Jafre. Jafre was with me in New York. I brought him into the world of being recognized in Pencak Silat If you understand the Malay culture then you understand the two countries with similar culture that no one claims the best more to be proven in the field of combat who has the best training. We don't pirate techniques, we compliments because Filipino and Indonesian have the same Malayan race.

No one influences anyone in silat until someone steals the techniques and claims his own and put into the MMA.

Today it is not the art of asking question but I ask you what is your discipline what is your background. You might be creating some funny names and wants to create importance in the thread.

You must know what is silat and what is FMA before you ask question. Education is to know and understand.

[viejo]

[quote=GrandTuhon Leo T Gaje Jr;13061]My younger days were devoted with my grandfather. That's it.

GrandTuhon

thanks for your direct answer and PInoy Boxer thanks to you also...
best regards

Viejo

[franci1911]

as my enquiries in previous thread had been missed, thot i put up a new topic.

http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=1996&page=2
http://www.fmatalk.com/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.fmatalk.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12795)
quick question for tuhorn leo gaje :

"Is it true that you had trained in other Arnis / Eskrima styles in your younger days ? If yes, what are the styles / who are the teachers ?

thank you

Truth Be Told,

I do not know why you must insist on and add intrigue as to Grand Tuhons training in his earlier days and his influences. I have a question for you:

Are you insecure of your Developemnet or the Developement of your Teacher?

To exchange technique with someone does not imply that you have trained under that person.It is the polite thing to do if you are among peers. Grand Tuhon Gajes' training in Pekiti-Tirsia was in his younger days was solely under his Grandfather Conrado Tortal.

As for:

Quote:

Grand Tuhon,

I have also another question, how big was the influence from Mr. Ed Jafri's silat in your style?

Thanks and best regards,

Viejo

Having been there in New York In the Flesh (lived and trained with both Grand Tuhon Gaje and Pendakar Jafri). I had a birds eye view of what was what in those days. Grand Tuhon Gaje brought Pendakar Jafri into the light. If it were not for Grand Tuhon Gaje, Pendakar Jafri may have been left in obscurity.

I can tell you with 100% accuracy that if there was any influence that it was what Pendakar Jafri gained from his time with Grand Tuhon Gaje.

This is not saying that Pendakar Jafri was not great in his own but, Grand Tuhon helped him greatly on opening his style to the public.

If you have anymore questions or inquires as to what Pekit-Tirsia is or was I am available for conversation most any day. I am also available for training in the San Jose Area. Thank you.

Regards,

Guro Michael

[truth_be_told]

quick question is simple question.

Other forum poster claims got picture to state otherwise.

tuhon gm leo gaje had said he never studied with other people.

But go on to say "I have exchanged techniques with several old Kali men in a very limited meetings it doesn't mean I studied with them or adopted their style. When I exchanged techniques, I study the weakness of that style."

This meant other FMAs style whether it got strength or weakness had influenced the development of PTK in some extent ? Yes ? No ?

Why no name old Kali men or style ? Dont deserve attention ?
Can anyone clarify on some confusion in this forum ?
Other says otherwise on the contrary to Tuhon's statement in this same forum:

1) post by Bart Hubbard
eg http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=161

2) post by Steve Lamade
"In is interesting to note however that Leo Gaje began training at the age of six with his grandfather and other seniors in his village in Occidental Negros in what was essentially a family art; the picture of Leo and Momoy that Bart has provided shows Leo as a young man (possibly in his ‘30’s?).

It is not uncommon for accomplished martial artists to travel to train with senior masters to “round out” their education, and one wonders what other individuals GM Gaje sought out during this period of his life as well?"

eg http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=161&page=2

3) posted by Buwaya
"GM Gaje and GM Nene Tortal in addition to training with GM Conrado Tortal, also trained with their relative Jose Lamayo Vinas, GM of Lapu-Lapu Vinas Arnis of Bacolod city. Not to be confused with GM Hermino Binas of Binas Dynamic Arnis, who I understand GM Nene Tortal did not train with, contrary to Philippine Martial Culture."

eg http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=161&page=2
Does this meant Bart Hubard, Steve Lamade, & buwaya false claims ?

Tuhon is always right (parable - as from horses mouth) ?

To end, i like Stickmaster2000 :
"Forming ones own style is part of the culture of FMA and many varied and interesting systems and styles have evolved over the generations as a result of that culture. But as you say, giving credit to those you have learnt from and spent time with is important.

no offense intended to any one especially gru michael(franci1911).
to crystal clarify thing more important.

[GrandTuhon Leo T Gaje Jr]

no offense intended to any one especially gru michael(franci1911).
to crystal clarify thing more important.

NO, TRUTH BE TOLD, SIR

I am not offended but you fail to understand that just because one exchanges some technique it does not mean that he trained under some one. Please understand that your quest is futile as well as immature. You have nothing to gain by trying to discredit Grand Master Gaje. Just because you see a picture does not qualify or quantify your statement of what is was and what it is. Come to where the knowledge is, come train with us and you will then Know.

Guro Michael Franciotti

[lhommedieu]

...2) post by Steve Lamade


"In is interesting to note however that Leo Gaje began training at the age of six with his grandfather and other seniors in his village in Occidental Negros in what was essentially a family art; the picture of Leo and Momoy that Bart has provided shows Leo as a young man (possibly in his ‘30’s?).

It is not uncommon for accomplished martial artists to travel to train with senior masters to “round out” their education, and one wonders what other individuals GM Gaje sought out during this period of his life as well?"...

I don't have a dog in this fight. A close reading of my post will show that GT Gaje's early, extensive training with his Grandfather formed the core of his martial arts practice: any other influence, from whatever source or for whatever period of time (and my assumption here is that the time was very short) did not fundamentally alter that foundation.

Please feel free to pm me if you'd like to continue this conversation off-line.

Best,

Steve