Sparring with padded sticks

[adelaide_stickfighter]

Hi there, I do a lot of sparring with the armour just wondering has anyone sparred with both armour on (and normal sticks) and no armour with padded sticks. If so how dose it compare and do can you go all out with padded sticks to the head, If anyone has any input I would love to read it, thanks.

[Carol]

can you go all out with padded sticks to the head

Opinions on this are probably going to vary a lot. Personally...I don't like the idea of going full on to the head unless it's using both padded sticks and head protection. There are some injuries that can still be sustained with a padded stick (eye damage for example), and the damage a padded stick can do may depend on how the stick is made.

Sounds like you are really enjoying your training! :)

[arnisador]

Yes, eye protection is a must!

I spar with and without armour. Armour is smarter, but...I hate the restricted movement. I prefer unarmoured.

[sifu uga]

Padded sticks are wonderful tools. Anytime you don't wear protection it's important to use control and limit the force of your shots. Not to mention possibly limiting your target selection. A padded stick can still knock you out. Gloves and head gear should be basic requirements for moderate contact.

[adelaide_stickfighter]

Thanks for your imput guys, I have just recently sparred with a padded stick (not foam but a real stick with very little padding) and I am very bruised but man was it fun, we did wear helmets, gloves and elbow pads and I can see the importance for eye protection in full contact sparring.

[Brian R. VanCise]

After you have learned enough and are capable the best way to spar in my opinion is with a fencing mask, gloves, elbow & knee protection with real rattan and that is it. (With striking and grappling) Definately adds a little realism. However, up to that point sparring with padded sticks is a good start and gets people over the initial fear of being hit and then moving onto armor and real rattan. Once a practitioner has sparred with padded sticks and then armor after awhile they should be good to go with a fencing mask, rattan, etc. Just my 02.

[arnisador]

I too feel sparring with rattan is essential...though since it involves being hit with an actual stick, I'm a little reluctant to suggest it to others sometimes.

[Brian R. VanCise]

I too feel sparring with rattan is essential...though since it involves being hit with an actual stick, I'm a little reluctant to suggest it to others sometimes.

Yes it is something that people should grow into!

[franci1911]

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnisador http://www.fmatalk.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?p=15352#post15352)
I too feel sparring with rattan is essential...though since it involves being hit with an actual stick, I'm a little reluctant to suggest it to others sometimes.


Yes it is something that people should grow into!

Sparring with rattan is not only essential it's the best way that you can get over the fear of being hit. I am very pro sparring with rattan from the get go and also without Armour. So what if you get a little mouse over the eye, or bruised knuckles or smacked shoulder. Sparring without Armour and with an unpadded stick increases your hand/eye coordination, speed, flexibility and tactics. The more you practice this way the less often you are apt to get hit. When you do get hit because you go with the ebb and flow with the movements in the time of contact fighting you are more likely to reduce the amount of damage that may occur to yourself.

[Sisco T.]

i'm with the others who advocate eye protection when sparring. whether your sparring with no, little, or some rules, soft stick or rattan, i believe eye protection should be top priority. whether it be WEKAF headgear, fencing mask, eye goggles, etc. eye injury, or worse than that, is one ''accident'' you don't want to have.

Francisco

[Brian R. VanCise]

i'm with the others who advocate eye protection when sparring. whether your sparring with no, little, or some rules, soft stick or rattan, i believe eye protection should be top priority. whether it be WEKAF headgear, fencing mask, eye goggles, etc. eye injury, or worse than that, is one ''accident'' you don't want to have.

Francisco

Having been nicked in the eye back in the day when protection was alot more minimal I would definately concur with this. One slip is all it takes after all. http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon6.gif (Oh and yes my eye is okay http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon14.gif but another fraction of an inch and it might not have been)

[arnisador]

I nearly took out my son's eye with a wooden tanto...and that was just doing a technique, not sparring!

[silat1]

I used to spar with out armor, but one time I had a guest instructor come in and demonstrate his art.. there was an incident that caused one of my students to have to be airlifted off island due to an eye injury.. It almost cost him his sight.. After that, when we spar it is with eye protection and biking or weight lifting gloves as protection for the hands..

There's something about the sting of rattan in sparring that brings out the essence of true combativeness.. It increases the blood pumping and the adrenalin coursing through your nervous system and blood system that makes you feel like a real warrior.

Bill

[Master Vince]

I have sparred with just a helmet, elbow guards, gloves, groin cup and the knee guards, and may I say that it certainly does bloody hurt, but what a rush of adrenalin through the body, YEEEEOOWEEEEEEEEEEEE!

When I di a seminar in Indonesia last year, we all fought without the armour, and I sparred every student for 3x1 minute rounds, there were 10
people there that day, and man was I red, black and blue because of it!

The real rattan cane keeps you honest and alert! (Try it if you dare, OK!)

I do not really advise doing this type of sparring without headgear, or you stand the chance to lose an eye, so its really just not worth it at all!

Always show respect to your sparring partner, or you can really do a lot of damage to their body, and then you won't have a sparring partner for a while, OK!

OOSA!

[St. Bernard]

I've never used foam sticks but have sparred heavily with action flex's. Catching one of those across the face will get your attention, most assuredly. I didn't see anyone mentioning mouth guards when they spar, but I've seen enough guys get concussions to tell you that they are essential when you are going heavy.

I've never sparred with rattan, but have been hit full contact with sticks all over the torso. I think people are more afraid of the idea of being hit than they are of the actual pain. Pain is pain. Baby Demon caught me on the fingertip with the plastic cap of one of those foam kid's training sticks today and it stung like hell. Little six year old b$$$tard...)

[robertlk808]

I concur! Eye protection is a must... :)

I like using both but I usually try to work the same game with and without armour however I will be more experimental with armour just so I can try out new moves.

[Christian]

After you have learned enough and are capable the best way to spar in my opinion is with a fencing mask, gloves, elbow & knee protection with real rattan and that is it. (With striking and grappling) Definately adds a little realism. However, up to that point sparring with padded sticks is a good start and gets people over the initial fear of being hit and then moving onto armor and real rattan. Once a practitioner has sparred with padded sticks and then armor after awhile they should be good to go with a fencing mask, rattan, etc. Just my 02.


I could not agree more to that. That is also our sparring progression and it seems to work. Up to this point we never had any mayor injury - obviously the right mindset of the training partners is very important.

Regards

Christian

[langgaw]

.....for safety purposes , yes use eye guard specially for beginers. The rest of the body is okay w/o protection. For advanced, there is no use for protection unless your partner is a novice or beginner. The advance peeps are usually in control of their stick and the skills are more honed when it comes to almost reality fight s( with utmost control an discipline) with real sticks and real time sparring.

[geezer]

[QUOTE=Brian R. VanCise;15146]After you have learned enough and are capable the best way to spar in my opinion is with a fencing mask, gloves, elbow & knee protection with real rattan and that is it.

Point taken. For sparring to mean anything, you have to hit really hard...hard enough that your hits ROCK your opponent and eliminate unrealistic, "so-what" counterstrikes. But if you do go all-out, you are goint to need enough protection to prevent serious injuries--not just bruises, but broken bones and brain damage. So, is it better to pad the stick, or armour your body? Also, what experience have you guys had with different kinds of helmets and gloves. Can you give me some feedback before I spend a few hundred bucks?

[Pat OMalley]

Well I have fought with armour, without, live stick padded stick and a few in between.

If you are going to spar padded stick (rattand stick wrapped n foam with canvas cover) I would more than highll recommend head gear, get a good whack on the head with the padded stick and no helmet, you are going down.

We had our padded stick national championships yesterday where they had just head gear and a groin box and I spend a good portion of the day cleaning up blood from the cuts on the hand and the body, so yes at least wear head gear, after all you have to get up for work in the morning and you dont think I was born this ugly do you.

Train hard but train safe I always say But when you fight, give it all you got for you have nothing to lose but your ego.

Best regards

Pat

[Sisco T.]

'' For advanced, there is no use for protection unless your partner is a novice or beginner. The advance peeps are usually in control of their stick and the skills are more honed when it comes to almost reality fight s( with utmost control an discipline) with real sticks and real time sparring.''

i am sorry, but i could not disagree more with this statement. if you are referring to sparring, one should always wear, AT LEAST, eye protection, if not some sort of head gear. expert, beginner, master,guro, etc., if you are are sparring with impact to the head,face,etc. that is my reality for sparring.

Francisco

[Brock]

'' For advanced, there is no use for protection unless your partner is a novice or beginner. The advance peeps are usually in control of their stick and the skills are more honed when it comes to almost reality fight s( with utmost control an discipline) with real sticks and real time sparring.''

i am sorry, but i could not disagree more with this statement. if you are referring to sparring, one should always wear, AT LEAST, eye protection, if not some sort of head gear. expert, beginner, master,guro, etc., if you are are sparring with impact to the head,face,etc. that is my reality for sparring.

Francisco
I agree. Doesn't matter how good you are you can still accidently walk into a strike that hits on your ear or eye and causes damage to them. My hearing's getting bad enough as I age, so I try not to take chances with anything that could make it worse.

[kuntawguro]

The most highly skilled motorcycle racer or the dragster driver would never think about even getting onto or into their machines to attempt a run without a roll bar a leather or firesuit or even a parachute. To tempt the hand of fate gets you hurt. Ego =take it like a man" is not a good state of mind for any trainer or student- my 2 pesos worth

[geezer]

Just today I attempted a disarm in an exchange and I succeeded--in disarming my opponent's stick right into my own eye. Ouch! Well, I'm an idiot. But, since we happened to be using padded sticks, at least I'm not a blind idiot! My dos centavos mas.

[adelaide_stickfighter]

I think no armoured sparring is good for conditioning and mental toughness but lets face it you can not hit any where near as hard as you do in the armour. If the guys that I spar with were to hit you with their hardest shot with no armour you would stay hit, period. So I think one should still use the armour otherwise they are training to pull their shots.

[animal_stylez]

So what's the difference in training with a fencing mask vs. WEKAF style mask? I obviously haven't tried it, but there looks like less padding for one.

[animal_stylez]

Nevermind...I've got my answer! :D

[kaligirl]

The main problem with sparring with padded sticks and with too much gear is that you can lapse into bad form because you are not aware of how damaging a blow can be....too often stick sparring ends up being a couple of people too close and hitting each other on the head (padded of course) but unrealistic and counterproductive.

[arnisador]

Yes, I see that all the time...with padded sticks you can train yourself to ignore debilitating hits, which of course impedes your training (unless you're training for sport).

[Pat OMalley]

Depends in the padded sticks you use, we use the ones that have a solid rattan core, trust me when you get hit they still hurt which makes you move.

Best regards

Pat

[Brian R. VanCise]

Depends in the padded sticks you use, we use the ones that have a solid rattan core, trust me when you get hit they still hurt which makes you move.

Best regards

Pat

No doubt about that Pat! http://www.fmatalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Damien Alexander]

Depends in the padded sticks you use, we use the ones that have a solid rattan core, trust me when you get hit they still hurt which makes you move.

Best regards

Pat


Oh I 2nd that motion!

I use their sticks and my guys use helmets and gloves and thats it.
You do get one hell of a wollop!
Of course,we have a reputation of hitting and fighting like cavemen, but we do get the job done ;)
I like the rattan,but you can't train as often as you'd like or for as long without armour.
I do love my padded sticks though :EvilGrin:

[adelaide_stickfighter]

We sparred on the week end with just helmets, gloves and elbow pads and a rattan stick, boy did it sting but you still can't go full bore like with armour on. It was an educational experience though.

[lameco_alex]

HI GUYS!

I´M A DOCE PARES INSTRUCTOR UNDER GM CACOY CAÑETE AND GM RICHARD BUSTILLO; IN MY OPINION IS VERY IMPORTANT THE SPARRING WITHOUT ARMOUR AND THE PADDED STICKS ARE GOOD CHOICE, I THINK THAT IF YOU USE PADDED STICKS YOU DON´T NEED HELMET OR PADDED GLOVES, THIS WAY YOU WORK IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF PRIMARY ATTRIBUTES, PERCEPTION AND REACTION, TIMING, RANGE, POSITION, SPEED AND POWER, ALL OF THEM VERY IMPORTANT IN OUR PATH TO BE A WARRIORS..., BUT THIS IS A PERSONAL DESITION.

I´M A LAMECO ESKRIMA PRACTITIONER TOO, AND I LEARN FROM GURO DAVE GOULD HOW TO SPARRING WITHOUT ARMOR , LOOKS SIMPLE BUT THIS NEED A LOT OF HARD WORK:

1.- SPARRING WITH PADDED STICKS, HITTING ALL THE BODY EXCEPT THE HEAD
2.-SPARRING WITH PADDED STICKS, HITTING ALL THE BODY INCLUDED THE HEAD

THE PURPOSE OF THIS PROGRESION IS TO MASTER THE DISTANCE AND LEARN HOW TO STAY SAFE AND PROTECT THE HEAD WHEN YOU CLOSE THE RANGE, IF YOU ALWAYS USE HELMET MAYBE YOU HAVE A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY...

YOU CAN DO THE SAME PROGRESION WITH THE LIGHT RATTAN STICKS, IT´S YOUR CHOICE, JUST TRY!

BE WELL

ALEX

[HartCone]

I have sparred with just a helmet, elbow guards, gloves, groin cup and the knee guards, and may I say that it certainly does bloody hurt, but what a rush of adrenalin through the body, YEEEEOOWEEEEEEEEEEEE!

When I di a seminar in Indonesia last year, we all fought without the armour, and I sparred every student for 3x1 minute rounds, there were 10
people there that day, and man was I red, black and blue because of it!

The real rattan cane keeps you honest and alert! (Try it if you dare, OK!)

I do not really advise doing this type of sparring without headgear, or you stand the chance to lose an eye, so its really just not worth it at all!

Always show respect to your sparring partner, or you can really do a lot of damage to their body, and then you won't have a sparring partner for a while, OK!

OOSA!

Yeah, I agree, must headgear for sparr...
*haha! you made my body got blue and black bruise for two weeks, yeaaahhh!! great experience!!

Yuko!

Tonny Hart
CDP-WF CMAA Indonesia Fellow

[Pat OMalley]

HI GUYS!
IN MY OPINION IS VERY IMPORTANT THE SPARRING WITHOUT ARMOUR AND THE PADDED STICKS ARE GOOD CHOICE, I THINK THAT IF YOU USE PADDED STICKS YOU DON´T NEED HELMET OR PADDED GLOVES, That again depends on the padded stick and the intent behind the shot. I have sparred on many occasion with padded sticks both with and without helmet and for safety reasons and for the fact that I can train longer I always recommend at least a helmet. I tend not to use gloves with the padded stick unless of course there is an injury to the hands which happens. I have seen a few broken hands with this format in my time.


IF YOU ALWAYS USE HELMET MAYBE YOU HAVE A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY...That depends on how you approach your sparring session, if you train properly, when you receive a good shot to the head you appreaciate the practicalities of the helmet in that you can train for longer with less risk of serious damage, more training means better attributes too.


YOU CAN DO THE SAME PROGRESION WITH THE LIGHT RATTAN STICKS, IT´S YOUR CHOICE, JUST TRY!
I do, but this too if used incorrectly can give you a false sense of security as the light rattan sticks do not give you the same all to often crippling impact a good solid heavy peice of rattan would when connected to a skull.

I and a few others tend to play in all formats from time to time but again are we giving ourselves a false sense of security when we use no protection, heavy sticks as we tend to pull our head shots as we know full well this will seriously damage our training partners. No, not if we appreaciate just what damage can be done.

I see no reason to cause unessisary damage to my training partners just for the sake of not falling in to the false sense of security mind set, for if I wanted to have a more realistic approach to my sparring without this risk I would use no protection, I would not pull my shots and I would use a nice solid peice of Bahi or even a sharp pinuti, pretty soon I would run out of sparring partners or they would run out of me and how would I be able to train my attributes then?

Train as realistically as you can yes, but train safely and train for longer and that way your attributes improve.

Best regards

Pat

[Damien Alexander]

I have to admit; I used to be of the same mind that using armour provides a sense of false security.
But, I was wrong.

Even in wekaf helmets, you can get knocked for a serious loop with a good head shot. Some of the guys we have in Rapid Arnis hit something akin to an alabama mule! The helmet wouldn't make much difference as far as a blow to really knock you off balance and keep you off.
If we sparred like this without gear,there would be some serious damage done if done at full force.
We do drop it back a bit to help people learn to block the head strikes.
With helmets,people don't tend to try and block as much since they think the helmet will do all the work for you. (andy marren,anyone?!)
And anyone who "spars" with wood and NO protection anywhere is just too stupid to live.
Outside of that, padded sticks are a blast!

[Pat OMalley]

Andy Marren hahaha he's not a man he's a machine eh 'D'

[Damien Alexander]

Andy Marren hahaha he's not a man he's a machine eh 'D'


As I said before,we hit like cavemen.
Andy "monster" marren IS a caveman with a shave!
And I think I saw him dry shaving with a rock at the camp!

To be honest; the way some of the people hit that I have or trained with
and the solidity of the padded sticks we use, you would be an absolute fool not to wear a helmet.
I know this much, since the carrying of weapons for self defense is illegal in this country(hell, you can't even arm your own home here!), the padded sticks we use and for the power that can be generated with them...
I'd be more than happy to abide by the law and use this particular "training" apperatus in a street fight.
If I can garuntee,and I can ;), that with padded sticks and no helmelt that you WILL walk away with a massive headache and broken bones(small bones:hands,eyeball socket,nose,etc...).
So,knowing what kind of damage you can do with these things,not to mention rattan and hardwood, why would you even consider no helmet and full contact?!

Unless you are mad at your teeth or something; then go for it!
Knock'em clean out!

I'm ugly enough as it is :D