Gross Motor Skills

[WT_ATL]

I often hear from my law enforcement friends that their training focuses mainly on their gross motor skills. For those of you who aren’t familiar with this term, it’s the movements of the large muscles of the body (i.e., punching, kicking, angle 1, etc…). This is mainly due to two reasons.


Gross motor skills are easier to learn and retain.
When your heart rate is elevated, it’s harder to pull off some of the fine motor skills (disarms, trapping, etc…). I see a lot of this during sparring sessions.My question is this. Is it possible to thru training and repetition to convert a fine motor skill into a gross motor skill? If so, can anyone suggest any good drills?

Thanks.

[Cruentus]

I often hear from my law enforcement friends that their training focuses mainly on their gross motor skills. For those of you who aren’t familiar with this term, it’s the movements of the large muscles of the body (i.e., punching, kicking, angle 1, etc…). This is mainly due to two reasons.

Gross motor skills are easier to learn and retain.
When your heart rate is elevated, it’s harder to pull off some of the fine motor skills (disarms, trapping, etc…). I see a lot of this during sparring sessions.My question is this. Is it possible to thru training and repetition to convert a fine motor skill into a gross motor skill? If so, can anyone suggest any good drills?

Thanks.

Winston,

You can't really convert a fine motor skill into a gross motor skill. For example, flipping open a folding knife with your fingers will always be a skill that utilizes dexterity and small mucle groups, making it a fine motor skill. No amount of practice will change that.

I think what you may be asking is can you train yourself to do something utilizing fine motor skills under combat stress? The answer is yes, but this is a bit controversial and warrents explaination.

Under combat stress your body goes through a physiological change; so you are literally a different person in a fight then you are normally. You are using different parts of your brain (amygdala [SP?]), and some parts of your physiology is enhanced while others are shut down. The physiology of combat stress will always be there regardless of training.

So, the key to success here is not to try to train out of combat stress, which is a losing proposition. The key is to train while keeping combat stress in mind, and modifying your training accordingly. So, to use a shooting example, we shoot our handguns in practice using a convulsary grip, because in a fight we can expect that this is the way that we will grip our guns. GUn handling and trigger pull is a fine motor skill in itself, but we practice it with combat stress in mind. So, we look to have accuracy and success in training with a convulsary grip, rather then trying to repetively train a different way in an attempt to train a convulsary grip out of our system. Because when the fight happends and our bodies are responding, we can't expect different results regardless of how much we train, because we can't expect our physiology to change.

One last thing that can benefit your training is enducing combat stress as best as you can through scenarios, and seeing how the body responds. Then you can modify your training from there.

All this stuff is outside a "martial art" per say, but useful none-the-less...

Hope that helps,

Paul Janulis

[G22]

You can always squeeze "grosser" movements out of "fine motor" skills. For example in gunhandling you can clear a malfunction with a "slingshot" grip on the slide (using thumb and forefinger to pull on the rear slide serrations). Or you can use the "grosser" motor skill of using the whole hand...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4542&d=1119820156

Same thing with a folder. You can train to try and use the fingers on one hand to open the knife or train a "grosser" sweep of the thumb. Its all a matter of scale.

[Cruentus]

You can always squeeze "grosser" movements out of "fine motor" skills. For example in gunhandling you can clear a malfunction with a "slingshot" grip on the slide (using thumb and forefinger to pull on the rear slide serrations). Or you can use the "grosser" motor skill of using the whole hand...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4542&d=1119820156

Same thing with a folder. You can train to try and use the fingers on one hand to open the knife or train a "grosser" sweep of the thumb. Its all a matter of scale.

That is a very good point. Well put.

Your link didn't work for me though... :nixweiss:

[G22]

Hmmm...its a martial talk link to a .avi, perhaps your media player doesnt support it. Works fine on mine.

[JPR]

What about reping fine motor skills? I realize that some fine motor skills are finer than others, but doesn’t reping the skill make it more likely that you can pull it off under stress?

JPR

[Cruentus]

What about reping fine motor skills? I realize that some fine motor skills are finer than others, but doesn’t reping the skill make it more likely that you can pull it off under stress?

JPR

You have to be careful with that, because you can't change your physiology. Reps help, because when an actual event occurs, the less cognition the better. But you still have to understand the limits of the human body under stress, and you can't expect that you will overcome these limits despite practice. This is especially considering the fact that in the repetitive practice, your not under the stress that you would be under in a fight. So we have seen with some people who have done thousands upon thousands of reps with a particular thing (certain complex trapping sequences or joint locks for example) that requires fine motor skills or complex movement, we have found that under stress in scenarios they aren't getting the results despite their practice. We can only assume that it will get worse from there, not better, and that under actual combat stress these skills will break down.

Paul

[Danny T]

Repeating the movements over and over under non-stress induced scenarios is great for training: Non-Stressed scenarios.

It does help even in a stressed situation however only minimally.

What does work is to work and train in the same kind of stressed environment and conditions as you can. Fighter pilots train some extremely fine motor skill actions within a dogfight and do a fine job. So what is the difference. They actually fly and get attacked and train in the extreme environment they will be fighting in. They don't have the mental stress of actually being shot out of the air however the mental stress of losing the dogfight and dealing with their cohearts, the possibility of losing control of the aircraft and the possibility of losing their jobs does cause a high level of mental stress.

Something we do is to isolate and work a series of movements based upon an attack. We then work the movements against an opponent actually attacking at a speed and force the attacked person can handle. We gradually increase the pressure and force of the attack as the trainee becomes accustomed to the movements and the pressure. We then change their physical condition. They will do 3-6 minutes of hard exercises and then they are attacked. As the trainee is able to handle this they do a series of sprints starting from 20 yards increasing to 60 yards and then are attacked. The last of the series is they make the sprints and then spin 5-7 times very rapidly getting their equilibrium disrupted and are then attacked. We find this helps by isolating the movements we want ingrained and then the training is locked in by stressing the body physically, mental stress is induced by the constant increasing of the force of the attacks and the speed at which the attacks come and actually getting hit. The trainee does get hit and learns to continue with their defense and/or counter attacks.

Only after the trainee is able to work at a level of proficiency with-in these physical stress levels are they allowed to start sparring at real time.

Working any action repeatedly under ideal conditions will never prepare you for the realities of an alive attack by someone hell bent on taking you out! Now, this kind of training isn't for everyone. I have many students who only want to train hard but not hardcore and that is ok. I do constantly enforce that they are not preparing nor will they be prepared for a true physical combat situation.

Danny T

[Cruentus]

What does work is to work and train in the same kind of stressed environment and conditions as you can. Fighter pilots train some extremely fine motor skill actions within a dogfight and do a fine job.

Good post, Danny T.

One thing important to mention about this example is the fact that distance from the threat plays a major role in the diminishing or salvaging of fine motor skills. For example, a military radio operator can use fine motor skills to operate a radio in a firefight with bullets flying everywhere. But they are under cover, even if minimally, and they are distanced from the attacker. They wouldn't be able to operate the radio if someone was trying to stab them or shoot them from ten feet away. Same with a fighter pilot; they can fight in a dogfight utilizing fine motor skills, but if someone was in the cockpit trying to choke them they wouldn't be able to control the plane even minimally (even if they had the physical ability to do so).

A good example of fine motor skills diminishing under stress regardless of reps that you can actually physically watch is police tapes of store robbery's. Some of these cashiers that have been robbed have worked for years in retail, and have opened and closed registers thousands of times. Yet, when the robber has the gun pointing at him and is screaming at him to open the register, the cashier finds that he has great difficulty doing that simple task that he has done without thinking for years.

I know your point was about trying to make your training environment as close to reality as possible, and it was a good one. I just wanted to interate that point.

Paul

[loki09789]

My question is this. Is it possible to thru training and repetition to convert a fine motor skill into a gross motor skill? If so, can anyone suggest any good drills?

Thanks.

Not really. You can't convert a fine motor into a gross motor skill. But, you can train yourself to a level of acclimatization to stress that your HR doesn't spike as bad, therefore extending your time window to apply more fine motor skills.

The magic number seems to be 145 HR according to Sharpening the Warrior's Edge by Bruce Siddle. Once your HR starts climbing above that number fine motor and cognitive functions start to go down hill fast. Just think back to a time when you were in sports (Soccer, Football, ....MA sparring) and noticed how many stupid mistakes, bad choices, ball drops...you made as the pressure was on for a long period of time.

THere ARE things you can do to:

Maintain a healthy fitness level. Unfit people will spike faster than fit people.

Train with a purpose regularly. Paul J. mentioned scenario training. That is effective to acclimatize people to performing under stress. The first time you face even simulated intent to cause you harm, it can be overwhelming. With regular training exposure, you don't hit the Hyper-responsiveness that can cause spikes in HR.

Confidence: Your mental state has a major impact on how much stress can affect your performance. Train regularly and train to build success and confidence in your skills. I try to work from the mentallity of sticking with White belt level material but at a black belt level of performance. Basics basics basics.

None of these will convert fine to gross motor, but just watch the difference between a Pro Athlete's use of fine motor skills in a sport compared to amateurs. They seem to be able to do magical things under extreme pressure. Fitness, experience, confidence are all factors that extend the time that they can perform in any intricate way both physically and mentally.

[loki09789]

You can always squeeze "grosser" movements out of "fine motor" skills. For example in gunhandling you can clear a malfunction with a "slingshot" grip on the slide (using thumb and forefinger to pull on the rear slide serrations). Or you can use the "grosser" motor skill of using the whole hand...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4542&d=1119820156

Same thing with a folder. You can train to try and use the fingers on one hand to open the knife or train a "grosser" sweep of the thumb. Its all a matter of scale.

Or like converting the forearm as a pressure tool during an armbar instead of the y-hand or grab on the tricep tendon.

[Cruentus]

Paul M.,

Very good post and good points; I agree 100%. Great resource by the way well; Bruce Siddle and that title specifically is on our recommended reading list!

Paul Janulis

[Christopher Umbs]

At times, when my kids are sparring, I'll yell 'sprint' and have them instantly stop and do wind sprints and then go back to sparring while they are still elevated. Since you're likely to be elevated in a stress situation like a tournament, you might as well get used to doing your moves while pumped. I've said before that I see a big difference between what I've seen in FMA books and what I sometimes see in FMA tournaments and I think this is part of it.

Chris

[G22]

Dont forget that the simplicity task itself enters into the equation. While pulling a trigger may qualify as "fine motor" because one finger is moving, yanking a trigger isnt rocket science. Yes "trigger control" like you see on the range is out at CQB distances, but its not like you are going to "fumble" around pulling the trigger. The complex+compound movements is where the real crux lies. You can improve "fine motor skill" applications by simplifying the action being attempted. Hence the problem with level 500+ retention holsters with buttons, straps, levers and fingerprint scanners required to manipulate to draw your weapon.

[WT_ATL]

Thanks everyone, this was great feedback. What I took out of it all is that it's not the physical training but the mental training that will increase the potential of pulling off some of the more fine motor skills under stress. Meaning if I can keep my cool and not freak out, I should be able to keep my heart rate to a point where I can still funtion at an effective level.

Is this a correct conclusion?

[G22]

Thanks everyone, this was great feedback. What I took out of it all is that it's not the physical training but the mental training that will increase the potential of pulling off some of the more fine motor skills under stress. Meaning if I can keep my cool and not freak out, I should be able to keep my heart rate to a point where I can still funtion at an effective level.

Is this a correct conclusion?

Experience+Conditioning+Personality (are you a "calm" type)+Training+Streamlining your techniques/tactics to the simplest effective methods+Testing and Re-evaluating your training and adapting to what you find.

[Cruentus]

Thanks everyone, this was great feedback. What I took out of it all is that it's not the physical training but the mental training that will increase the potential of pulling off some of the more fine motor skills under stress. Meaning if I can keep my cool and not freak out, I should be able to keep my heart rate to a point where I can still funtion at an effective level.

Is this a correct conclusion?

Well, "freaking out" or not is only one element in the equation, as I think that G22 was explaining. It's important to note here that your not looking to learn how to not have combat stress, because that is a losing proposition as combat stress will be there when stuff happends. Your looking to be able to function effeciently when combat stress is present. Combat stress can be a lifesaving tool when utilized properly.

Paul

[G22]

Exactly. People seem to think that the "operators" out there are always "cucumbers" when the bullets are flying. You will never react the same way all the time. Many combat veterans will tell you that in some battles they were unafraid, that things seemed to go on auto pilot. Then the next battle they will tell you that they cowered in a hole afaraid to move, and still later that they were forced into some sort of action. Its all dependent on your training, your experience, how quick the situation "jumped off" on you, your beliefs and personality etc.

[loki09789]

Paul M.,

Very good post and good points; I agree 100%. Great resource by the way well; Bruce Siddle and that title specifically is on our recommended reading list!

Paul Janulis

Thanks Paul J. Whose recommended reading list are you referring to in the above quote? I remember a great phoncon we had a while ago where you mentioned Law School as a possible future plan.

I was wondering if this reading list title was for a law enforcement and law class or something like that.

[loki09789]

Thanks everyone, this was great feedback. What I took out of it all is that it's not the physical training but the mental training that will increase the potential of pulling off some of the more fine motor skills under stress. Meaning if I can keep my cool and not freak out, I should be able to keep my heart rate to a point where I can still funtion at an effective level.

Is this a correct conclusion?

Possibly in a limited time window. Remember though the more complexity in the motion, the more likely it is to fall apart even early in the game. You can extend the time, you can stay focused longer if you are fit/confident/been there done that, but you really should be training for a hit and run approach to a real life situation.

OODA loop. Observe a possible threat (Yellow code would bump to Orange or Red here), Orient (turn) to the possible threat, Decide on a course of action (experience/training/control factor in here BIG TIME), and Act based on that plan. Can't remember the AF Officer that outlined this perspective on stress reaction for fighter pilots, but it is pretty useful as a training tool.

For a civilian the above would mean that you had to throw out escape or talking out of the situation BEFORE you plan on using force because either is only going to put you in more danger than applying force. Then you have to plan on using only the force that will stop the threat and create a reasonable escape. People can get all 'freaked out' because they are afraid of legal consequences as well as physical consequences. I have seen people in training 'lock up' because they didn't want to over react and get in trouble with higher ups after the fact.

For LEO or Mil/Operators, the equation is different because the mission objective drives the choices. Staying may be a requirement to getting the job done. If you don't do your part, the rest of the plan could fall apart.

[loki09789]

....we have found that under stress in scenarios they aren't getting the results despite their practice....

Paul

What kind of scenario training do you use to reinforce good response habits? What are some examples of responses that aren't worth training because they aren't reproducable in scenario regardless of the reps in skill only practice?

[loki09789]

At times, when my kids are sparring, I'll yell 'sprint' and have them instantly stop and do wind sprints and then go back to sparring while they are still elevated. Since you're likely to be elevated in a stress situation like a tournament, you might as well get used to doing your moves while pumped. I've said before that I see a big difference between what I've seen in FMA books and what I sometimes see in FMA tournaments and I think this is part of it.

Chris

Good practice. There are many ways to induce/simulate the physiological affects of stress in a training environment.

In hockey skills development, there is a theory of 'overspeed' training (actually a common athletic development practices) where you go as fast as you can at everything you do: Skating, puckhandling, shooting, passing....

The idea is that you will get neurologically faster if you maintain 'real play' tempo and therefore your skills will come up to that speed over time.

Personally, I think it creates a slower learning curve because it also creates multiple repetitions of mistakes, reduced confidence in skills....if it is the only training approach you use.

Combinging 'overspeed' with sessions that are specifically designed to teach/reinforce fundamental skills is the way I try to train. It's all in the blending.

[loki09789]

Exactly. People seem to think that the "operators" out there are always "cucumbers" when the bullets are flying. You will never react the same way all the time. Many combat veterans will tell you that in some battles they were unafraid, that things seemed to go on auto pilot. Then the next battle they will tell you that they cowered in a hole afaraid to move, and still later that they were forced into some sort of action. Its all dependent on your training, your experience, how quick the situation "jumped off" on you, your beliefs and personality etc.

I remember a Clauswitz quote from back in my NCO days that stated that it was easy to get troops to go to combat for the first time, the hard part was getting them to go back.

[Cruentus]

What kind of scenario training do you use to reinforce good response habits? What are some examples of responses that aren't worth training because they aren't reproducable in scenario regardless of the reps in skill only practice?

Scenario training usually involves role playing with the use of a FIST suit, or sparring type scenario's.

An example of a non-reproducable skill would be folding knife deployment while under a direct spontanious attack. We are finding that no matter how many reps one puts in of a kinetic opening for example, in a spontanious engagement if the knife isn't in the hand already, it isn't coming out unless there is significant break in action to allow time for deployment (generally at least a full 3 seconds). This makes the case for training in unarmed combat, because that is what one will have to use in a spontaneous engagement until the time is bought to allow for weapon deployment. This breaks down ideas like "because I have a tactical folder (or gun, as the same principle applies) I don't need to really work on unarmed fighting."

So, as a response not worth training would be a lot of stuff that people do where they are trying to pull there knives in mid-engagement, with no significant sign of a pause in action. For example, trapping hands de-cadena where someone try's to pull a knife from their belt and enter it into the fray. Or a lot of technique sequences I have seen involving a knife being popped open in mid-sequence. These things don't have much real combative application, even if they build attributes to some degree.

A response WORTH training more comes to light often with these things as well. So in this example, more light is shed on the value of becoming a proficient unarmed fighter and not using your carry weapon as a crutch.

Paul

[loki09789]

Scenario training usually involves role playing with the use of a FIST suit, or sparring type scenario's.

An example of a non-reproducable skill would be folding knife deployment while under a direct spontanious attack.

So, as a response not worth training would be a lot of stuff that people do where they are trying to pull there knives in mid-engagement, with no significant sign of a pause in action.
Paul

What kind of scenarios/role play do you use as an example? Asking for directions? Detaining a suspect? I am just wondering if your focusing on the responsiveness or training a specific scenario.

Good point about the folder. In the training video Surviving Edged Weapons produced by Palladin Press, they show a scenario similar to your folder realization. D. Inosanto is in a warehouse and a patrolling LEO approaches to interview. During the interview, D.Inosanto whips out a blade and starts Tazmanian Deviling all over the LEO.

In most cases were the officer tries to immediately go for the gun the officer is totally unsuccessful. In very few cases the gun makes it to target alignment and in ALL of those cases, the LEO was swiss cheese armed from the slashes with the knife.

I have found this to be similar to training with our "Pickle in the Middle" game where someone stands in the middle of a circle of students w/eyes closed. They only open their eyes when they are touched or when someone shouts "OPEN." Then they have to figure out what the attack is, choose a response, act out that response (dealing with the resisting attacker as they get advance in skill and ability) and move to an escape route. We usually identify a door in the room or make up a marker of some kind if the room isn't ideal (gym, community center....). People forget techinques, freeze up, stop in the middle because they 'screwed up,' and can't remember which way is the escape route ALL the time. Even advanced players get disoriented or flub regularly. THe real skill that differentiates the beginners from the advanced is how fluidly they adjust to those "OOPS!" events.


The scary thing in Surviving Edged Weapons is the scenes were they show documented video of inmates teaching/training with other inmates in knife/shank/shiv fighting skills. These guys are not connecting good personal values with martial arts. They are just eaching people how to fight and kill with lethal stabbing tools.

I would think that prisoners wouldn't be able to do that given the supervision of guards and the schedules they have to keep now, but it appears that there is a history of inmates teaching inmates lethal skills and making improvised edged weapons.

To me that would validate the necessity for a minimum of h2h training that could be combined with other skills to be completely defensively versed.

[G22]

Good point about the folder. In the training video Surviving Edged Weapons produced by Palladin Press, they show a scenario similar to your folder realization. D. Inosanto is in a warehouse and a patrolling LEO approaches to interview. During the interview, D.Inosanto whips out a blade and starts Tazmanian Deviling all over the LEO.

While the point of that scenario was well taken, it was a "set-up for failure" IMO. As I recall it, the scenario was a "suspicious male" call not a burglary in progress. If it was a Burg call I would think the officer would have engaged from a distance instead of walking right up to the guy. In the real world you cant address every person from 21' away from behind a tree for cover. In that situation, my money would be on ANYBODY getting stabbed, even Dan himself if caught flatfooted. I seem to recall a proficient Systema instructor being killed during a fight recently. Training IS vital, but the laws of chance and averages states that the more crap you walk into the more likely the odds that you wont be walking away. So yes, absolutely, empty hand fighting should be the foundation, but its a last ditch "Oh ****!" better than nothing solution IMO.

Sort of a reverse "fight continuum": In an ideal world I would tell people to....plan to avoid danger....Stay out of dangerous places/avoid dangerous people......Stay Alert when you cant....leave/run.....call 911....fight with weapons....fight empty handed. In that order when and if possible.

[loki09789]

While the point of that scenario was well taken, it was a "set-up for failure" IMO. As I recall it, the scenario was a "suspicious male" call not a burglary in progress. If it was a Burg call I would think the officer would have engaged from a distance instead of walking right up to the guy. In the real world you cant address every person from 21' away from behind a tree for cover. In that situation, my money would be on ANYBODY getting stabbed, even Dan himself if caught flatfooted. I seem to recall a proficient Systema instructor being killed during a fight recently. Training IS vital, but the laws of chance and averages states that the more crap you walk into the more likely the odds that you wont be walking away. So yes, absolutely, empty hand fighting should be the foundation, but its a last ditch "Oh ****!" better than nothing solution IMO.

Sort of a reverse "fight continuum": In an ideal world I would tell people to....plan to avoid danger....Stay out of dangerous places/avoid dangerous people......Stay Alert when you cant....leave/run.....call 911....fight with weapons....fight empty handed. In that order when and if possible.

I agree that anyone can get caught on any given day. I do think that the video as well as our own real life and training experience supports the idea that training with a purpose should be the majority of your time spent training. Training a skill for skills sake alone is fun and rewarding as a sense of accomplishment, but if your goal - even secondarily - is self defense, focus on getting the fundamentals down cold, then create situations where application is more important than appearance.

I don't see many disarms happening in WEKAF events or wrist locks in UFC events. That isn't because people don't train them, but because under pressure they are too intricate and the consequences of failure are very high. Heck, even B.Taboada said that training stick disarms (fine motor/intricate) are great for hand eye training but that in a real fight they aren't something to consider. If your in a position by chance, sure do the disarm, but they are too complicated to go into a non ballistic weapon fight thinking "My goal is to take that stick/knife away with a disarm"...

[Danny T]

I agree that anyone can get caught on any given day. I do think that the video as well as our own real life and training experience supports the idea that training with a purpose should be the majority of your time spent training...,

I don't see many disarms happening in WEKAF events or wrist locks in UFC events. That isn't because people don't train them, but because under pressure they are too intricate and the consequences of failure are very high. Heck, even B.Taboada said that training stick disarms (fine motor/intricate) are great for hand eye training but that in a real fight they aren't something to consider. If your in a position by chance, sure do the disarm, but they are too complicated to go into a non ballistic weapon fight thinking "My goal is to take that stick/knife away with a disarm"...

So true. Training disarms to disarm another is a waste of time! Unless you are extemely lucky it isn't going to happen. Train disarms to be in a position to recongize a disarm is available or so you know how to counter them. Attacking is far more useful and safer. In our training of disarms we are constantly enforcing; "Never attempt a disarm against another if the head or the hand is working properly." What makes disarms work is the hits. It is due to proper positioning while attacking the opponent that disarms happen. Never disarm for the sake of disarming. The disarm happens because you are hitting!

Danny T

[arnisador]

Train disarms to be in a position to recongize a disarm is available or so you know how to counter them.

I think of the disarms principally as things I might use after I got a good hit in if I didn't want to continue at that level but instead wanted to de-escalate; or, as something I'd probably use an empty-handed variant of even if I'm training it with a stick. But being able to recognize that one is in a "disarm position" (however that may have happened!) is important too, and I emphasize that when I teach--it doesn't matter how you got here, it just matters that you are here.

[G22]

In a real knife fight you might as well shove your arms in an industrial sized blender...if its disarm or die I guess you have no other choice, but I wouldnt train thinking you are just going to simply disarm....

[arnisador]

I was thinking about sticks.

[JPR]

Disarms seem to me to be like eclipses, when everything aligns just right you have one, but standing around looking for one to happen wastes a lot of time.

This being said, the only way you will recognize the moment is if you isolate and train disarm techniques until they are second nature to you. When we spar, we often find disarms. With sticks they seem to come most naturally from the snake, which doesn’t really involve any fine motor skills and seems to be reasonably easy to perform. Knife is (pardon the pharsing) a bit more dicey. I have had some impact disarms when guntinging an incoming thrust / slash and have also been able to pick up the knife hand and get a push / pull disarm (grasp the thumb padding of O’s hand and pull, use the back of my knife hand / arm against flat of O’s blade to push) again not what I would consider a fine motor skill. But at no time was I sparring to specifically find these, they just popped up and I took them.

Since I don’t troll around looking for live stick or knife fights on the street I don’t have any experience there and can only relate what I see when I spar.


Jerry

[loki09789]

Disarms seem to me to be like eclipses, when everything aligns just right you have one, but standing around looking for one to happen wastes a lot of time.

This being said, the only way you will recognize the moment is if you isolate and train disarm techniques until they are second nature to you. When we spar, we often find disarms.
Jerry

I like this phrase of 'finding' disarms. Your there, you've trained disarms and 'find' yourself in that position and can recognize the opportunity and take it.

This makes sense also as a marker of improvement. Say you are in free play and don't notice a disarm that you are technically proficient in but tactically unable to apply (meaning in freeplay). Seemingly out of the blue, you are aware of the position and start using it tactically. That is a sign of progression. The next level would be to be tactically aware on the larger scale of scenario/context where you can decide when and where that disarm opportunity is the right choice or wrong choice.