How do you spar?

[Epa]

There are a lot of different ways to spar in FMA and I was just wondering how each club or group spars. What kind of equipment, if any, do you use? Do you go to first strike, some point system or continuous sparring? Do you spar using only the weapon or allow closing and grappling?

Or are you just too deadly to spar with?

Thanks,
Eric

[hardheadjarhead]

Am I too deadly to spar with? Yes.

You know how sticks fray after continued use? In my case that's not from the daily wear and tear. Its from my internal energy traveling down the length of the stick and bursting out of it.

You'd know this Epa, if you would hold still long enough for me to hit you.


Regards,



Steve

[blindside]

We use fencing masks and street hockey gloves as armor.

We introduce students with light padded weapons and do technical sparring to emphasize certain skills (defang only, headhunter versus defang, one person entering to corto vs largo, open sparring, etc.). When we introduce sparring we are only really emphasizing the stick, live hand is de-emphasized.

As people get more comfortable we add in the live hand actions, so standing disarms, weapon grabs, and trapping gets added in. Next step is to move to a heavier stick (still padded, but can TKO through a fencing helmet) and add in live hand attackes, elbows, knees, and standing grappling. Finally we add in takedowns and ground grappling.

We haven't broken out the rattan for sparring but we'll get there. :)

Lamont

[arnisador]

Where I study JKD, we stick-to-stick and knife-to-knife spar. We use padded sticks and wooden knives. Equipment varies; always a (single) glove for sticks, but often we simply rule out headshots. Otherwise, we use helmets. In each case it's first shot counts and we are exhorted to remain at the furthest distance possible and to be very mobile. Lots of abaniqo, hiradas, and backhanded shots to the hand/arm, and occasionally some ocho-ocho. I'm one of the few people who stab, and I'm often discouraged to do so--but it surprises people!

[JPR]

I'm one of the few people who stab, and I'm often discouraged to do so--but it surprises people!

Why are you discouraged to stab / thrust? 3 of the first 12 strikes are thrusts. Is this a safety concern or a tactical application?

Jerry

[arnisador]

Where I study JKD, the philosophy is that a stab is more likely to be evaded and that extending the arm that far makes it a target for a quick defang-the-snake slash as a counter. As I said, they are all about fighting at largo range--the further away, the better. It means that I am discouraged from using many of my Modern Arnis technques, including anything that utilizes the live hand. (It's used at close range, and we do practice those techniques, but in sparring we are encouraged to maintain distance if possible.) At their school I try to do things their way.

It's different when I spar with Modern Arnis practitioners at WMAA events. Then I can get in close and personal if I like.

[ap Oweyn]

When I studied Doce Pares, we mostly did WEKAF type sparring. The full body armour and helmet. Sweeps and disarms were legal then. (I don't really know what the rules are nowadays. This was years ago.) No empty hand or kicking (aside from the sweeps).

When I worked with a couple of JKD groups, they added in kicks, empty hand, and take downs. Not to the degree that the Dog Brothers or Black Eagles do, but along those lines.

Now, with the Modern Arnis group, I've been trying to introduce sparring again. So far, as I've been supplying the equipment, we've only worked with the cheapy padded sticks and no armour. And we've been sparring by Modern Arnis rules (which were obviously new to me). They're a bit more fencing oriented (which I've done a bit too) than I'm used to. Not to the extent that you hit and stop. Apparently, if you get a clean hit you get more points. If the other guy takes the hit but immediately fires back, you get fewer points. So it's more continuous than fencing.

As for what I'd like to do in terms of sparring, I'd like to do the range of technique that the Dog Brothers or Black Eagles do, but the padded sticks and limited armour. For health reasons (beyond the obvious health concerns of getting whaled on with a rattan stick), I'm limited in the amount of punishment I can take. (Bum kidneys) But I like sparring too much to give it up entirely. So some padding and loose technique restrictions.


Stuart

[arnisador]

When I worked with a couple of JKD groups, they added in kicks, empty hand, and take downs. Not to the degree that the Dog Brothers or Black Eagles do, but along those lines.

Where I have studied JKD, which is now at two places (Paul Vunak's and Dan Inosanto's versions), when we have weapon sparred we have weapon sparred (only). In regular sparring we can do punches/kicks/takedowns/etc., but in stick sparring we do stick only and in knife sparring the occasional roundhouse kick to control distance is used. Otherwise, they aren't mixed...which now seems odd, given how JKD is usually trained.

At one school we occasionally stick grapple...start sitting back-to-back with a stick between us, and on Go grab for the stick and grapple. I find that BJJ comes in very handy in such circumstances.

[DAMAG-INC]

My group usually goes all-out on the contact while also including checking hand strikes, elbows, knees, kicks, sweeps, clinching, to grappling in order to properly flow from range to range while sparring with weapons. I'm also making sure to adopt the ideas I learned from viewing Matt Thornton's "Aliveness" instructional video while encouraging it to the rest of the group during sparring.

Single stick sparring
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3002/damagincdannmarc1smooth86fr.gif

Double stick sparring
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/6701/damaginc32005doublesticksnroun.gif[/url]

Espada y Daga sparring
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8341/damagincmarcvsjaimeespydagasm3.gif[/url]



My myspace profile has some videos on it to show what I'm talking about... http://www.myspace.com/danielarola

[arnisador]

Thanks for sharing this! What is on Matt Thornton's video?

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

hello all,

we use hocky helmets and hockey gloves... we use padded pvc with duct tape... yeah, i know its cheap, but its still very functional... we use different pvc sizes from 12 in, 18 in, 24 in, 31 in and even a 6 foot wodden staff... espada y daga, daga y daga, espada y espada, and any combination of the above against one another...

thanks!

Captain

[Ron B]

Captain Jack Sparrow
that is how we started out sparring as well instead we used hockey tape instead of duct tape.I made padded nunchakus,and a padded bo staff and we use kendo sticks as well.

[DAMAG-INC]

Thanks for sharing this! What is on Matt Thornton's video?
Look it up yourself, or just buy it. It's from Straight Blast Productions. You'll enjoy it for sure!

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

just to add, i like to spar different people from different schools and arts when i can... although its pretty hard to do so as a lot of people do not spar in the Traditional Martial Arts... but when i do run someone who does, then i get to learn what works for me...

Cap

[DAMAG-INC]

the following link below is a video of my guys on the training floor going at it with "rigged-up" padded sticks at full speed and contact. I hope you can dig it.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=626251419&n=2

[sames]

Daniel, what are the rules of engagement when your group spars? I liked the video, just curious what rules the players were playing within. (For instance only at the very end was the live hand getting used to slap/jab).

[DAMAG-INC]

Daniel, what are the rules of engagement when your group spars? I liked the video, just curious what rules the players were playing within. (For instance only at the very end was the live hand getting used to slap/jab).

We try to limit the number of rules(and restrictions) as much as possible. We do maintain a courtesy and consideration for each other as sparring partners to be sure to minimize any potentially lasting bodily damage while going all-out on each other.

These guys in my class for the most part are in the military. I hardly have any of the local civilians come in to train with us. So our program is geared for training as realistically as possible. We may spar, but we don't spar to prepare for a sport. Though we still won't rule out the idea to prepare for competition if the opportunity arises.

Our rules are open, sometimes we make agreements with each other on how we wanna go prior to sparring.

[sames]

Thanks for the quick response. Its great that you videotape some of your work and are willing to share it with us. I really appreciate that.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Good stuff Daniel! Way to keep the arts alive.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[DAMAG-INC]

Good stuff Daniel! Way to keep the arts alive.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

I'm glad you dig it, Brian. I hope you'll really dig the video that I have linked in the following post.:)

[DAMAG-INC]

DAMAG-INC Kali Combatives Demo video
[Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc ]
Filipino Kali Combatives training as taught by Daniel also featuring some ofthe soldiers from Ft Bragg. Jaime, Jon, Josh, and Jason with music written and performed by guitarist and FMA'er, Jason Couture who is also seen training in this video. This is DAMAG-INC in 2006 as filmed in Fayetteville & Ft Bragg, NC

[DAMAG-INC]

DAMAG-INC Kali Combatives Demo video
[Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc ]
Filipino Kali Combatives training as taught by Daniel also featuring some ofthe soldiers from Ft Bragg. Jaime, Jon, Josh, and Jason with music written and performed by guitarist and FMA'er, Jason Couture who is also seen training in this video. This is DAMAG-INC in 2006 as filmed in Fayetteville & Ft Bragg, NC




http://grouper.com/GlobalMedia/MediaDetails.aspx?id=837708

[monkey]

Great posting.Let me start off but saying this.(I know It will get a little flack)In JKD we did Not do Kali-silat-Tahi.Under Bruce & James Lee we did spar wepons & empty hand.It was on JKD,there was no concepts-practicle-pre 73 ect.I dont want to say the concepts is or isnt good.I know what it can do.But,JKD is JKD & no silat or thai.)If you do Arnis under Remy-you dont run around & say Im Gracy-Thai-Savate-Tkd-Ect.Modern Arnis is what it is.The same for JKD.For sparring we padded up knees-shins-head-hands.Now on a lighter note seperate from JKD-I do Arnis-Kali-Escrima.For Escrima We had no pads & did the 1-12 lock n block drills.For Kali on the tirsa side of the art-Fencing helmet-gloves-shin pad.Arnis side I teach with foam sticks & no pads for all drills ect.but ,with contact.

[DAMAG-INC]

Here's some matches of padded stick sparring in my class. There's some with single stick, espada y daga, and double stick(siniwali).

http://grouper.com/GlobalMedia/MediaDetails.aspx?id=926184

Can you DIG IT?!!!

Daniel Arola

[p.v.]

We spar on all distances-we use kicks,punches,elbows,knees,take down and groundstickfighting.
Usually spar finish with submission or tap-out,sometimes with KO or decline after hard punch with stick or other body weapon.
The rules are decrease to minimum,closely to reality,but with care about health of my gays.We use helmet,MMA gloves,mouthguard,knee and elbow protectors and light padded bamboo sticks for spar.Now I’m in progress to make padded rattan sticks.
Sometimes I divide spar on only stick or no-armed hand(kick),but often I play mix spar.
Regards!

[arnisador]

A lot of people fail to mix stick sparring with empty-hand sparring, but changing ranges is emphasized in JKD! We do it fairly often where I study JKD.

[p.v.]

That’s right! :) A lot of people can’t mix if they don’t have solid background of kick,punch and grap MA.If they pass by this MA and accept mostly on stick fight the results is :”Oohh,this not working,I can’t do it”.I talk for mix,for free stick fighting.If they wish to do only stick fight-that’s no problem,but for mix that’s not the way.
Regards!

[DAMAG-INC]

I prefer to isolate the ranges during the week to fine-tune the sparring skill and then combine all the ranges when it's time to have a gathering.

[EasyToBe]

The best fight anyone will have is one that is avoided.

He who reaches the highest plane, will be humble among others.

[DAMAG-INC]

The best fight anyone will have is one that is avoided.

He who reaches the highest plane, will be humble among others.

There's many more ways than one to see how the "best fight" could be like. If you "avoided" the fight, then how would it be considered a the "best fight" if at all? Besides... what in hell does this have to do with SPARRING?

[sifu uga]

Let me see if I can get this back on track.

How do I spar? For novice students we go very slow with out pads and empty handed. We try to focus on important fundamentals like zoning and body mechanics. I start them no contact.
After that we put on some basic pads (gloves, cup, shin pads, headgear) and we look for slight contact. The focus is on interceptions and destructions using a point type system (although it is continuous).
Next step is medium contact with all body tools and grappling (and simulated Kino Mutai) is allowed.
At all points of training we also use situational limitations. One person may only be alowed to use his arms another his legs, etc.
For weapons sparing its padded sticks with protection and light contact. The emphasis is again on fundamentals. I look for use of body weapons in conjunction with the stick, use of the alive hand, abilityto zone, economy of motion, etc.
Then it's the full suit and rattan. All sytems go.
The knife stuff is also similar in progression.
Any body else care to share thier methods?