Leo T. Gaje seminar protocol

[lonecoyote]

I just signed up for the seminar in San Antonio, have no experience with Pekiti Tirsia and I would like to know some of the etiquette, like for addressing Mr. Gaje, or what kind of salute, or bowing is one supposed to do. The seminar is open to all styles but I've never attended an FMA seminar and especially not one held by the grandmaster of the style.

[Epa]

Hi,

In general, with the Pekiti Tirsia seminars I've been to (only 4) the training can be intense, but the attitude is somewhat informal. You don't have to bow to each other before every technique or anything like that. I believe that the proper title for addressing Leo Gaje is Tuhon, because he is the head of the system and Tuhon translates to chief or something like that. So either Tuhon or Tuhon Gaje would be appropriate and I'm sure Mr. Gaje would be fine too.
As far as the bow goes, there is a 5 count bow for the Pekiti Tirsia system and I'm not sure if I could describe it well in words. Though, at many of the seminars I've been to, Tuhon Gaje has taught us the bow at the beginning of the seminar. If you're really worried about it, you could ask someone before the seminar because I know there are a lot of Pekiti Tirsia people in Texas and there will most likely be some experienced practitioners there. I would also encourage you to ask questions on techniques that you don't understand because Tuhon Gaje is very approachable and will often show you interesting variations when you ask a question. Let us know how the seminar goes. I hope that helps.

Eric

[blindside]

I've been to two of Tuhon Gaje's seminars and Epa described it pretty well. Tuhon does use the long salutation, but he also uses a simple abbreviated version (hand to head, hand to heart, open arms). Many PTK members use an abbreviated salute (right hand to heart) after working with someone, but a "hey thanks" works just as well. Tuhon will show you a salutation if he wants to use.

Be prepared to work, Tuhon Gaje believes in repetition and intensity, I've come back with blisters from each of those seminars. You won't regret attending this seminar, Tuhon is pretty amazing.

Lamont

[mronkain]

As far as the bow goes, there is a 5 count bow for the Pekiti Tirsia system and I'm not sure if I could describe it well in words.
There's also a video clip of the salutation here (http://www.texaskali.org/video/Salutation.mov), courtesy of Texaskali (http://www.texaskali.org/).
I've never been to seminars by Grand Tuhon himself, but I've been to one by Mandala Uli Weidle, who taught us the salutation and we did it in the beginning and end of each day's training. Otherwise it was pretty informal.

- Marko

[shootodog]

rule # 1: always be respectful of the grand tuhon.

rule # 2: never piss the grand tuhon off.

rule # 3: if you can't follow the 1st 2 rules, don't attend. unless you're a masochist.

[equilibrium]

looks right until You bring weapon to the heart. what should come next is then extending it out and say "tuhon."

In th video he says guro. Guro is a teacher... not the grand master. Where I train the salutation goes to the one and only grandmaster and no one else. There can be only one...

Just do what Tuhon says and listen to him. Listen closely when he tells you cross training can lead to serious problems. Most people don't take his advice and when you watch them move, you can tell.

[Beungood]

I have been to two seminars with Tuhon a one day seminar and a two day hosted by my Guro William Shultz in East Greenwich Ct. Both seminars were the same: Very informative, rigours and repetitve. He wants you to learn the material. He also will show many variations t0 the technique and also answer any other questions you may have. He usually starts off with a talk on his princicples and thoeires and then practical application. He will then warm you up, and beleive me you Will BE THOROUGHLY WARMED UP! mANY STRIEKS, GUT CRUNCHES (ACTIALLY AN EXCERCIERSE OF PUNCHING /STABBING FROM YOUR BACK, i LIKE CRUNCHES BUT THESE WERE HARDER) he is gracious and approachable and about the best seminar you can attend.

Jack O
New England PTK/Mongrel combatives

[Beungood]

oh yeah ,bring extra t-shirts and clothing to change out of during lunch break, they will be hanging off you dripping by lunch.....

[bladedone]

they have all pretty well covered it. tuhon gaje is extremely approachable. he will answer any questions you ask. but him showing you is better. ask for a verbal answer. then ask him to show it to you. i made the distiction between the two quickly. once he puts it on you... you will have a much better understanding. he prefers the latter himself. you both walk away knowing you know it. just about any practitioner there will help you drill on it also. no matter the skill level... in my experience they are all pretty much willing to help. have fun! let me know what you think afterwards, ok?

[Tim Waid]

[quote=mronkain;680]There's also a video clip of the salutation here (http://www.texaskali.org/video/Salutation.mov), courtesy of Texaskali (http://www.texaskali.org/).

This presentation of the Pekiti-Tirsia salutation is grossly incorrect and should not be followed by anyone.

First, the left hand does not come up in front of the face before kneeling.

Second, we definitely do not raise the arms out at 45 degrees in a flying Gooney bird fashion.

Third, and most importantly, the Pekiti-Tirsia salutation has always been, and always will be, given to Grand Tuhon Gaje, the Grandmaster of the system. At the beginning and ending of every instructional period, special event, and individual demonstration the salutation is performed, and, as you bring the handle/punyo to your heart you say “TUHON”. This is direct recognition, respect, and gratitude to Grand Tuhon Gaje as THE source of knowledge. Respect to the instructor goes without saying.

This corruption of the Pekiti-Tirsia salutation by Leslie Buck, the “president of the Texas Kali Association”, whatever that means, is a prime example of those that have taken training that Grand Tuhon Gaje has given them and changed it for their own personal gain. It is also appropriate to state that unless the instructor is listed at www.pt-go.com, Grand Tuhon Gaje’s official website, they are currently not recognized by Grand Tuhon Gaje as an active instructor in good standing (inactive instructor list is currently being updated). If you train with individuals not listed you undoubtedly will be learning their “interpretation” of PTK mixed in with additions they made up, components of other styles they have studied, and improper execution of the limited knowledge they have.

These salutations have been unchanged since the 70’s of which there are two forms, long and short – I will have a correct video up on Grand Tuhon’s website for reference soon.

[leslie]

I'm sorry that my first post in these forums will be to address the current attack on myself. My best regards to all of you here in your passion for Pekiti Tirsia. I support all of you and hope to share as well as learn from you.

Many of you who have trained with Tuhon Gaje may have witnessed that he uses more than one version of the salutation. Often it depends on the weapon held and sometimes the group being trained. In fact, Tuhon uses more than one version of many things depending on the context of the techniques he is presenting at the time and possibly his creative mood. Although I am not perfect, I do my very best to accurately represent what I am taught out respect for my teachers. I am indeed fortunate to have learned most of my Pekiti Tirsia skills directly from Tuhon Gaje himself as well as Mandala Rommel Tortal.

This is the salutation I was taught by both my original Pekiti Tirsia instructor, Erwin Ballarta, and Tuhon Gaje himself. When saluting Tuhon Gaje, we salute him and state his title, "Tuhon". When saluting our instructor, we salute him with his title, "Guro." We often silently salute our partners out of respect before and after a training session.

I think recognizing Grand Tuhon in his absence is an excellent idea by means of a salute, and I have done the same. However, this video was originally created only to teach our local students how to formally show respect should it be to an instructor or to Grand Tuhon himself when he regularly visits our local group, The Texas Kali Association, for training.

[selfcritical]

This presentation of the Pekiti-Tirsia salutation is grossly incorrect and should not be followed by anyone.

First, the left hand does not come up in front of the face before kneeling.

Second, we definitely do not raise the arms out at 45 degrees in a flying Gooney bird fashion.

Third, and most importantly, the Pekiti-Tirsia salutation has always been, and always will be, given to Grand Tuhon Gaje, the Grandmaster of the system. At the beginning and ending of every instructional period, special event, and individual demonstration the salutation is performed, and, as you bring the handle/punyo to your heart you say “TUHON”. This is direct recognition, respect, and gratitude to Grand Tuhon Gaje as THE source of knowledge. Respect to the instructor goes without saying.



At the last seminar I attended with Tuhon, he had us salute by bringing both fists to our heart, stepping out
with the right foot and saying "Tuhon" while bringing both hands outward. I'm inclined to believe from this that variations in the salute don't bother him very much. And if they don't bother him, I don't see any reason why I should have any great concern if he's shown yet another variation to someone else.

[Tim Waid]

There are many instructors that have trained with Grand Tuhon Gaje in the past including Frank Ortega, Greg Alland, Bill McGrath, Leslie Buck, and others who have decided to create their own organizations to promote themselves. Some have changed the name (Tirada Tirsia), some have taken ambiguous titles (Texas Kali Association), and some have retained the name Pekiti-Tirsia (Pekiti-Tirsia International).

The fact remains that these “organizations” are not recognized by Grand Tuhon Gaje as sources for proper instruction in the system of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. However, Grand Tuhon Gaje has an open door policy to those that wish to establish or reestablish their relationship with him.

As stated previously:

Unless the instructor is listed at www.pt-go.com (http://www.fmatalk.com/www.pt-go.com), Grand Tuhon Gaje’s official website, they are currently not recognized by Grand Tuhon Gaje as an active instructor in good standing. If you train with individuals not listed you undoubtedly will be learning their “interpretation” of PTK mixed in with additions they made up, components of other styles they have studied, and improper execution of the limited knowledge they have.

One of the great things about the information age, and forums such as these, is the exchange and access to real time knowledge. In this case it assists prospective students in locating instructors that teach authentic Pekiti-Tirsia, prevents them from wasting their time and money, and most importantly from jeopardizing the safety of their own life through faulty instruction. As Grand Tuhon says "We're not talking about kick and punch, but the fatal thrust".

I speak from personal experience. After training in Pekiti-Tirsia for six years (and learning a different method/application from each instructor) I returned to the Philippines to learn from the source - Grand Tuhon Gaje – and continue to do so today.

[leslie]

Tim,
I’m sorry to hear that you continue to take offense to my personal decision not to officially join the PTGO under your leadership. My decision was never intended to insult you, and I continue to applaud your efforts in promoting the art.

I agree with you that the best instruction in Pekiti Tirsia is directly with Grand Tuhon himself, and I am indeed very lucky that Tuhon continues to accept me as his student. In that, my student / teacher relationship with him simply does not involve you. I would encourage anyone who wants to know more about my standing with Tuhon Gaje to also go to the source, and check with him.

[Kalisong]

Hey look! a private message button...click!

[Tim Waid]

PTGO is Grand Tuhon’s Gaje’s organization. I have naturally assumed a leadership position because I happen to have 18+ years of continuous training, including almost five years of private training in the Philippines, with Grand Tuhon Gaje, which is more than anyone else. I have always, and continue to give proper respect to (and train together with) my seniors, Mandala Tuhon Philip Gelinas, and the core of first generation instructors, such as Mike Franciotti, that preceded me. I have also continued to learn and increase my skill literally every time I train with GT Gaje. Loyalty is virtuous, and comes with great rewards.

There has always been “special” training for those that require it. They have been invited, many times, but they never show up for the largest gathering and events of Pekiti-Tirsia instructors. The reasons are obvious.

[bladedone]

very well put if i do say so myself... i have often wondered how long you had been training with GT Gaje. when i see you i never remember to ask. is it any wonder why they do not show up? no. in the past i have had similar issues. so i can relate in a way. even though it was mostly before my learning from you, mr. waid. i do understand. what is it they call it? the bravery of being out of range?

[RRodriguez]

This is real sad. This forum looks like a battle field for ALL Pekiti Tirsia practitioners. A little more respect and less sarcasm, would make this forum more enjoyable to read.

[arnisador]

Welcome to FMATalk! We certainly encourage everyone to start threads that will lead to productive discussions.

[RRodriguez]

Arnisador,

Spoke too soon. There are other great topics (threads). I especially like those providing historical information (from people who were there). My sincere respect to all of you. Keep it coming. Remember, no name calling!
This forum is great place for all FMA to meet!

[Gilla]

I think that a little sarcasm and heat is a good thing among people who train in combat arts such as Kali. Some people have very real concerns about how the art (in this case PTK) is being taught. This is a long running sore point among us. All elite military unit's and pro full contact fighters have their pride. It is combat and it not nice. If your good at it, just like any skilled person you have some ego about that skill. Also not into the man -hug so much. This is not padded stick fighting it is rattan vs flesh and bone with very little armour ( this is how we do it in PTK). So fire and ego, not so bad some times
Eddie

[brothershaw]

A son can part ways with the father but it never erases the time spent or the things learned while in the house.

[tanod]

Hey look! a private message button...click!

:) is this who i think it is?:)

[gold_chapter]

PTGO is Grand Tuhon’s Gaje’s organization. I have naturally assumed a leadership position because I happen to have 18+ years of continuous training, including almost five years of private training in the Philippines, with Grand Tuhon Gaje, which is more than anyone else. I have always, and continue to give proper respect to (and train together with) my seniors, Mandala Tuhon Philip Gelinas, and the core of first generation instructors, such as Mike Franciotti, that preceded me. I have also continued to learn and increase my skill literally every time I train with GT Gaje. Loyalty is virtuous, and comes with great rewards.

There has always been “special” training for those that require it. They have been invited, many times, but they never show up for the largest gathering and events of Pekiti-Tirsia instructors. The reasons are obvious.

http://maxsofmanila.com/online/images/halo2_new_small.jpg

[GrandTuhon Leo T Gaje Jr]

The PTK Seminar Philosophy brings a new enhancement development training to those who had attended and to those who are about to attend my seminars and camp Training. I always treat each one who may attend my seminars and training in the Philippines or anywhere in the US or Europe with great respect , because I know that they seek for knowledge and wisdom what a true filipino Fighting system can do to increase their personal experience to be more in the art of superiority rather than insecurity. Filipino fighting way is performed by people who are intellectually gifted, people whose foresight is to install a fortified technology that can protect them in all angles of crucial events that may happen to their families and loved ones. The true reality of self- protection and self-preservation is expressed in the training of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali System.

We always believe in the Philosophy" The harder the conflict the glorious the triump" we don't offer Blackbelts because Blackbelts is not the filipino way of identifying ranks, Filipino ranking system is expressed by Authority. Authority to meet any challenge any place , anywhere, anytime. Authority to magnify the technology expressed in methodology presented in the reality of what was the knowledge in the past.Authority to mark Black and Blue into the face ,arms and legs and other parts of the body. Authority to present the subject in the language of educated instructor not an assuming Master whose teachings are good only for two hours. In the next seminar and more seminars are just a doing and doing of the same disarming and grabbing none intellectual way of teaching.

What the Americans expects is a more challenging way how the Filipino art can be effective and workable system that it can be considered the reality of what was the history of the Philippines from 1521 to 1945.

But due to the commercialization and bastardization of the art, it became cheap and the art lost its splendor in the bloody ground of realism.