Close Quarters in Kali Ilustrisimo

[Epa]

In the few examples of Kali Ilustrisimo, mostly in books and some video clips of Tatang Ilustrisimo, it looks like the art seems to specialize in the middle range, using a lot of evasion and parrying with the weapon. I haven't seen a lot of techniques demonstrated that are at close quarters, as in clinching/grappling range. Are there such techniques in Kali Ilustrisimo and are they emphasized as much as the medium and long ranges?

Thanks,
Eric

[Black Grass]

In the few examples of Kali Ilustrisimo, mostly in books and some video clips of Tatang Ilustrisimo, it looks like the art seems to specialize in the middle range, using a lot of evasion and parrying with the weapon. I haven't seen a lot of techniques demonstrated that are at close quarters, as in clinching/grappling range. Are there such techniques in Kali Ilustrisimo and are they emphasized as much as the medium and long ranges?

Thanks,
Eric

Epa,

You are right in regards to weapon to weapon engagements, the bulk of the techniques are in middle range or move beween long range range and middle range. Tatang believed in dispatching an opponent as quickly as possible hence the lack of grappling and and clinch range techniques.

There are grappling/locking techniques in empty hand v. weapon techniques ( especially short bladed).

Vince
Black Grasss

[Batang Sugbu]

I am not a practitioner of the Ilustrisimo system, excuse me but I don't want to call it Kali, because where I come from in Cebu, it's eskrima Ilustrisimo, in Kinatarcan Island where it originated, the Villabrilles and the remaining Ilustrisimo clan - it's just plain eskrima, however for purposes of delieanating their system from the others, they call it Ginunting eskrima.

From my interface with Ilustrisimo practitioners, they are quick to point out that the system is not focused on a particular range - largo, corto, media, grappling, etc, if for the uninitiated it would appear dominantly in the medium range, it is because being basically blade-oriented it is at this range where they are most effective in cuting, slashing and thrusting...and mind you they are very good at dictating the range. It would be suicidal to assume that they are not efficient at the largo and corto ranges. IMHO, I don't want to get embroiled at close range with an Ilustrisimo practitioner especially with the likes of Master Tony Diego or Master Yuly Romo!

[Epa]

Batang Sugbu,

I didn't mean to imply that they had no long range or close range skills, but that from the limited amount of the art I'd seen it looked like they focused on middle range. As both you and Vince pointed out, they seem to use that range a lot because it's a good one for the weapons they use. So what was the close range you saw like? Was it a lot of hand trapping or was it focused on moving into clinching and grappling? I'm assuming that the long range focuses primarily on hitting the weapon hand and lead leg. If you've got anything to add please do. Thanks

Eric

[JohnJ]

I am not a practitioner of the Ilustrisimo system, excuse me but I don't want to call it Kali, because where I come from in Cebu, it's eskrima Ilustrisimo, in Kinatarcan Island where it originated, the Villabrilles and the remaining Ilustrisimo clan - it's just plain eskrima, however for purposes of delieanating their system from the others, they call it Ginunting eskrima.


The system was coined many things from Olistrisimo Eskrima to Eskrima Ilustrisimo, Kali and Kalis Ilustrisimo. It's just a name and since the early 80' the latter terms were used. Who of the Villabrilles are promoting the system? Who are the active remaining Ilustrisimo clan members you are referring to in Cebu? I am curious cause I have not heard of Ginunting Eskrima. It may not be Tatang's version but his uncles.


From my interface with Ilustrisimo practitioners, they are quick to point out that the system is not focused on a particular range - largo, corto, media,

I agree. Although most of the play dictates medio range due to the nature, the system is well rounded to cover all ranges. However, my understanding is that the counters to grabbing the weapon and even some of the disarms demonstrated by Masters Tony & Master is not from Tatang but part of their personal evolution of the system. I have not seen any grappling at all. Although the Villabrille system incorporates grappling from what I've been told.

The close range strategies rely heaviest on aggressive and direct movements, exceptional timing and very effective use of the bantay-kamay for parrying and controlling. Bantay-kamay allows slashes and cuts to affect body mass rather than weapon arm. An exampl example of aggressive and direct is Cadena Real which is a timed entry against downward hroizontal or vertical strikes. You would have to intercept the opponents strike in transition and redirect it then go into a counter. Ala Contra Serrada requires precise timinga as you flank your opponent in close range and use your own forearm to jam the opponents weapon arm. The motion takes you into a direct strike to his head. It is the principles of pracion, sabayan, decuerdas, reloj de arena etc. that make the art effective in all ranges. The ability to cover centerline, provide the least counter or re-counter ability and efficiency in motion. In the largo range, the simple use of lastiko a defensive swaying motion that takes you in and out of medio and largo range. Your counters are almost always to the weapon hand with follow ups to the head.

John G. Jacobo
www.swacom.com (http://www.swacom.com)

[Batang Sugbu]

Batang Sugbu,

I didn't mean to imply that they had no long range or close range skills, but that from the limited amount of the art I'd seen it looked like they focused on middle range.
Eric
Sorry Eric, i wasn't alluding to your observations, but i was pointing out a generally common misconception about the emphasis on the media range of the Ilustrisimo system.

The system was coined many things from Olistrisimo Eskrima to Eskrima Ilustrisimo, Kali and Kalis Ilustrisimo. It's just a name and since the early 80' the latter terms were used. Who of the Villabrilles are promoting the system? Who are the active remaining Ilustrisimo clan members you are referring to in Cebu? I am curious cause I have not heard of Ginunting Eskrima. This is true, I don't want to pre-empt what the Cebu Eskrima Society is digging up right now, I have firsthand info who did mention the name of 65 year-old Lot Villabrille a nephew of the late GM Floro Villabrille who mentioned Ginunting, but he was cautious not to name a style, he simply called it eskrima. I can only surmise that the Ginunting is one of the techniques of the Ilustrisimo family system, and I doubt if it is predominant in Tatang Ilustrisimo's style.



The ability to cover centerline, provide the least counter or re-counter ability and efficiency in motion. In the largo range, the simple use of lastiko a defensive swaying motion that takes you in and out of medio and largo range. Your counters are almost always to the weapon hand with follow ups to the head.



... and from Mr. Jacobo's comment above, IMHO, as an outsider looking in, this sums up what I admire about the system and what sets it apart from other styles.

[arnisador]

What little I've seen of the art has tended to focus on largo-to-medio range. Don't they often use relatively long blades that would be awkward in close?

[oosh]

I was under the impression, that what makes Tatang's eskrima distinctive from that of his family system, was the infuence of Pedro Cortes (GM Yuli Romo, states that it was from Cortes that Tatang obtained Praksyon) and Imong Urias (who practiced Repikada Pegada).

[JohnJ]

I was under the impression, that what makes Tatang's eskrima distinctive from that of his family system, was the infuence of Pedro Cortes (GM Yuli Romo, states that it was from Cortes that Tatang obtained Praksyon) and Imong Urias (who practiced Repikada Pegada).


Thanks for the bit of history. However, I believe Batang Sugbu's comments were in regards to some of the general characteristics of the art vs. other systems NOT his family's.

[JohnJ]

What little I've seen of the art has tended to focus on largo-to-medio range. Don't they often use relatively long blades that would be awkward in close?

While there is emphasis on long range as well, most of the fight applications happen medio-corto. The Kampilan is just one sword, but there are also the barong, pinute and sansibars used by vast KI players.

JohnJ

[oosh]

oops ! sorry, bit of crossed wires there ;)

[arnisador]

sansibars

I tried searching on this but kept coming up with the city of Zanzibar, for which this appears to be a German spelling. What is this type of sword? I found a few pictures but nothing very clear.

[oosh]

http://www.cebueskrima.s5.com/photo5.html

[De Campo JDC-IO]

This link might be of interests to you as well as others.
http://cebueskrima.s5.com/whats_new.html

http://cebueskrima.s5.com/photo5.html

hope this helps...:lookaroun

[arnisador]

Ah, yes! I certainly do recognize the sword now, but hadn't known it by that name. I see that even knife-size versions go by the same name?

[LUTANG]

Just wanna say hello to everybody.

[arnisador]

Welcome! Please tell us more about yourself. Are you a KI practitioner?

[PG Michael B]

In BaHad Zu'Bu Master Yuli explains that KI never covets a range but functions well in all...there are however preferances and in BaHad Zu'Bu the middle distance is a favorite, as Maestro Yuli says " if they are far away there is no fight...for them to get to me they must come through the middle and that is where I spring the trap" (those of you who have trained with Maestro Yuli know exactly what I mean..and it is one hell of a trap). In close BaHad Zu'Bu as well as KI functions extremely well, not flashy just practical and nasty.

Many systems choose to use the middle as merely a bridge, BaHad Zu'Bu and KI use it as a means to a deliberate end.

[Twist]

In BaHad Zu'Bu Master Yuli explains that KI never covets a range but functions well in all...there are however preferances and in BaHad Zu'Bu the middle distance is a favorite, as Maestro Yuli says " if they are far away there is no fight...for them to get to me they must come through the middle and that is where I spring the trap" (those of you who have trained with Maestro Yuli know exactly what I mean..and it is one hell of a trap). In close BaHad Zu'Bu as well as KI functions extremely well, not flashy just practical and nasty.

Many systems choose to use the middle as merely a bridge, BaHad Zu'Bu and KI use it as a means to a deliberate end.

Yes, he knows exactly how to keep you in HIS favorite distance and hit you on the knuckles :)
Master Yul got perfect timing and distance control! I'm really sorry I wont be here till July, I would have loved to see how he's playing with a big guy like you. (Saw only still pictures of you two.)

[arnisador]

Yes, he knows exactly how to keep you in HIS favorite distance and hit you on the knuckles

I take it his favorite distance is long range, then? :)

[Twist]

Hmm, no, not really. He says you've to go close to finish it. But he was still always hitting my knuckles *G*

[media]

Master Yul shines in close quarter combat.

[PG Michael B]

I take it his favorite distance is long range, then? :)
BaHad Zu'Bu has no favorite range nor does Maestro Yuli....he will tell you that range is just something one has to deal with and it will change throughout a confrontation so be prepared in all 5 ranges (yes 5 ranges)
a. largo
b. medio
c. corto
d. ground
e. projectile

Maestros ability to flow from one to the other is what is truly amazing. What works for him is his timing..it is impeccable, his speed is excellent as is his power but he will be the first to tell you that neither mean squat without timing.

As BaHad Zu'Bu is not weapon specific nor is it range specific...it is a system built on simplicity and functionality driven by intent, there is no redundancy of movement hidden throughout the system....in Master Yulis words

"MOVE OR DIE"

It is that simple...yet few truly understand...

salamat

PG MB
B'Z~E
SATX

[arnisador]

Thanks! I don't know much at all about the system. Are projectiles treated in depth, then?

[PG Michael B]

Projectiles are introduced but they are a subsystem..not all folks will be interested in that avenue of the training..personally they are a passion..from bullets to arrows to coins ..name it and I will work it.....to me all facets have to be covered and the underlying principles of BZ work well in all 5 ranges.

[Raul]

Ilustrisimos are good in long range, better in middle range and best in close range.

[eome]

The saying goes..dont expose any part of your body within an ilustrisimo practitioners fighting range.

[PG Michael B]

The saying goes..dont expose any part of your body within an ilustrisimo practitioners fighting range.


I would err on the side of caution on this one. Never expose any part of your body (vital or non) to anyone skilled or not...it only takes a second for the shite to hit the fan and the fact is the attack more often than not will be from someone you know absolutely nothing about...and no matter the skill, the system, the player if it is an ambush you are already so far behind the proverbial 8-Ball that the pooch has done been screwed!

[sneaky]

Hi guys,

At the end of the day all blade combat takes place at arms length , if you dont keep all your limbs close to the body then you will get cut , range is less important than timing and hidden intention.

I have watched hours and hours of Tatang in action and in my own humble opinion would say that his strength was in an uncanny ability to draw , fake and pick off wayward hands and other body parts.

Tatangs ability to take you out of the fight was incredible, he could make the impractible practible and shut you down with disableing cuts or finishing moves but underlying his broad reportoire was simplicity.

Watching Tatang move you will see the same thing happen time and time again, enganyo and lutang, fake and cut or bait and move out of range whilst cutting you.

All the best,

Jim

[Don Quixote]

Jim,
That's a really good summery; and well put. I havn't had the luxury to study hours of footage of Tatang but I think it would be fair to add to that list that Tatang was an exceptional listener and interpreter of energy, in terms of reacting to opponents movements. Maybe this just comes from a lifetime of experience. One thing is for sure, it is hard to hit someone if they have accurately interpreted and reacted to your movement, reguardless of technique or fighting style. For this reason I think that listening to and interpreting movement is important.

[sneaky]

Nicely put mate.

All the best,

Jim

[sneaky]

Hi All,


I would also add Tatangs "rapid fire" close quarters attack to the list.

All the best,

Jim

[arnisador]

I would also add Tatangs "rapid fire" close quarters attack to the list.


What's this?

[sneaky]

Hi Arnisador,

"rapid fire" is a close range attack pattern, high low low high after closing and tieing up, the targets are the head and ribs and base of skull, it could be described as Tatangs aboniko I guess, forehand shots to face and ribs and a wristy flicky sort of shot to the brain stem with the spine of the bolo or stick.

"rapid fire " was Tatangs name for it , I have felt it via Ray Floro and its not a great place to end up ,

All the best,

Jim

[arnisador]

Ah, OK! It sounds like doing one side of a sinawali against an opponent who has been overwhelmed, or by "tied up" do you mean literally locked? I can't quite picture how the last shot gets behind him...

[Black Grass]

Ah, OK! It sounds like doing one side of a sinawali against an opponent who has been overwhelmed, or by "tied up" do you mean literally locked? I can't quite picture how the last shot gets behind him...

Arnisador,
No not like sinawali and not a lock. He would out flank them. Unlike many styles he didn't simple just stand there he was constantly moving. In this case he often would try to take you back.

Sneaky,

Its is Tatang's Abaniko.

Vince
aka Black Grass
Ilustrisimo USA
Bakbakan International

[arnisador]

Ah, OK! It's so hard to picture these things from words.

[Don Quixote]

Hi again

Not disagreeing with anything already said, you are obviously my seniors.

Just wondering; the rapid fire that I have seen displayed appears to take the form of a very close range rodonda, but it has a particular flavour in its circle that is directed toward the front. Rodonda in my experience tends to be a larger circle that may loop at times to the side/rear, or be flung out at long distance to the front.

Should I take it from your comments comparing 'rapid-fire' with abaniko that it is in fact a flavour or style of movement (not a martial arts style obviously), that can be applied to a number of techniques to transform them in a close range way,is it necessarily specialised to close and quick movements?

I think this kind of transformation of techniques is apparent in our style, estrella sort of becomes aldabis when it is done in long range, or with a retirada footwork...

[sneaky]

I guess in my understanding of rapidfire its delivered with intent rather than pure speed in the manner aboniko is used for rapid striking aimed at scoring points in sparring matches, I was taught the edge has to land on each strike looking for a finish.

All the best and thanks for the informative responces,

Respectfully ,

Jim